3 inch valve plate design

[bentstick]

Got a little bored and made a collection jar holder.

Oh for Christ's sake! Now you're just showing off! JERK!

(Don't tell anyone how cool I think that is! )

Holy shit dude ya got it bad!
Sungy I thought ya fell off the earth?

[Sungy]

Just didnt have much to report about. Lots of readings been done. Found a co worker with a farm. He is tapping maple trees and offered me maple sap. Just not sure what I can do with it. He also has many types of cattle feed. Me thinks, this could be good.

[Washashore]

I hear maple syrup vodka is pretty good. Should be enough sugar in it to boil it a bit and pitch yeast....never tried so don't really know.

[Barney Fife]

Boil the sap to concentrate it to around 8-10% ABV potential, pitch yeast, and enjoy! Should make a dandy neutral.

You want to re-think your jar holder. Obviously, you've never made an actual still run.... You need to be able to swap jars quickly, because you're doing it in real time, with the alcohol flow NOT stopping. So if you're futzing around trying to get the jar out, then a new jar in place, you'll have a large puddle of highly flammable alcohol at each change of the tiny jar you're using there(with a good still, you'll fill that pissy little thing every 10 minutes or less) to show for your efforts. This is yet another example of something you want to keep as simple as possible. Ditch the holder, bud.

The parrot would also benefit greatly from a straight shot of the feed line instead of the coil; the more volume, the slower the response, and you've added volume for no reason other than to have fun with the copper. Simple is better. Less is more.

[Sungy]

Boil the sap to concentrate it to around 8-10% ABV potential, pitch yeast, and enjoy! Should make a dandy neutral.[/quote]
Thanks. I looked up the sugar content of maple sap. (1 - 5 % sugar) To get enough to work with would take a tanker truck.

You want to re-think your jar holder. Obviously, you've never made an actual still run....

This is so true.

You need to be able to swap jars quickly, because you're doing it in real time, with the alcohol flow NOT stopping. So if you're futzing around trying to get the jar out, then a new jar in place, you'll have a large puddle of highly flammable alcohol at each change of the tiny jar you're using there(with a good still, you'll fill that pissy little thing every 10 minutes or less) to show for your efforts. This is yet another example of something you want to keep as simple as possible. Ditch the holder, bud.

The picture does not show well. The jar is in the holder on a 45' angle making it appear a tighter fit. In reality there is a large space around the jar. The jar is a large mouth mason jar. It slides up out of the holder easily while still collecting product. I chose the jars because I have lots of them. They only get 3/4 full anyway right?. The less product in the jar the more jars collected, and the easier to make good cuts for a noobie like me. Guess I may have to look at this again when I get the cleaning run going. Then I will have a much better idea of how this still will run.

The parrot would also benefit greatly from a straight shot of the feed line instead of the coil; the more volume, the slower the response, and you've added volume for no reason other than to have fun with the copper. Simple is better. Less is more.

I totally agree on the straight input tube. I wondered if the tubing length would affect the flow of product and cause backing up fo the product into the collection reservoir above. Finally some one who wants me to play with more copper. The design was to allow for air cooling of the liquid. I thought it might help and it gave me an excuse to bend up a coil. LOL

[skow69]

My still saw your pictures and kicked me in the nuts. Thank god she can't read.

Can't wait to see [and hear!] the video. Beautiful work.

[bentstick]

Now thats funny!

[Sungy]

I have a few more pics for ya all. First off I have been working on my boiler. I drilled a 3/8 hole in the keg at the bottom seam for the element to fit in to. Then I enlarged it with a electrical (greenlee) knock out punch 1 1/8 inch. I picked up a 1 inch FIP x sweat adapter. I cut the adapter sweat end in half to shorten the fitting and have maximum penetration (giggle) of the element. Then I flanged the fitting and silver soldered (45 % silver coil solder) it to the keg. I made a few angle brackets and soldered them to the outside of this fitting to hold the electrical box on with, and presto, the keg has a new element.

I have to do the same thing for a drain line.
After all the work an being sick with a cold my production on this was slow. I then had a few beers to forget the cold and looked at my still and ........
man that control panel looks like shit.
So I redesigned it to incorporate Mulekickers MK5500 phase angle controller and I had a spare 60 amp disconnect laying around to stuff everything into. I built all the original parts into it and upgraded all the switches.

well there she is....picked up the cable to run between the keg and the element ( 30 amp drier receptacle cut down and the plug to wire to the element). I have a roll of 6 gauge wire to feed this power pig with so almost there...hope to do some testing soon.
Edit: so I could add the wiring diagram

[Sungy]

Where to begin.....I finally have the whole rig assembled. Tested the low voltage wiring and all is well. Assembled the cooling pump and 45 gallon water drum. I cut a plywood top for the water barrel. Clear hose for the cooling water return lines so I can see how much flow I have. Filled every thing up and powered up the MK5500.
She is alive...........ye haaaa........


Ok to post some results.....
Water only run to test every thing.
MK5500 controller with 5500/240 element

voltage measured when running element = 244 volts
max amperage of element = 23.5 amps
min amperage of element = 0 amps
max wattage of element 244v x 23.5a = 5734 watts
15.5 gallon keg
water in keg start temp 52 'f
time to get up to boil 25 - 30 min.

The valves work flawlessly. I was able to go into full reflux with only using the lower half of my reflux condenser. I left the top half air locked. The top plate can be flooded if Im not paying attention so I cut back on the heat and the column stabilized. I ran in full reflux for 20 min and column was stable at 16 to 18 amps. I then shut down the cooling water to steam out the Lieberg. condenser. Then resumed regular operation again. I can fill a large mason jar in about 20 min. with the reflux condenser valve at 30% open. I played around with flow rates for an hour to see what flows affect what temperatures.

At this point I have a perma grin on my face.

Even at 14 amps the plates were full of water. The traps for the plates worked as expected and dripped gently onto the plate below. The valves do make some noise but not much because of the low mass of the valve is easily overcome by the vapor pressure and they just float, varying there output rather than banging open and closed. Just a minor hum from my girl as she cranks out product. I ran her this way for 2 hours and my cooling water was only 72'f at the end. A 20'f increase....not to bad.

Wholly Crap man this things cool...not gonna be long before we run some vinegar and water to clean er up on the inside.........

Then its an alcohol cleaning for her.
After that were gonna run some neutral for vodka. The wife requests ....I try to provide.

Just cant stop smiling..... Happy Days
Steve

[acfixer69]

Sungy
Glad to here all is rolling as planed. Looks killer too. I remember the test on my valved plate was listening for the tap dancer that never showed up. Fun night all the same. Congrads on the success my friend. One thing its not going to make a neutral, maybe twice thru as a mixer with or essence but I'm a vodka on the rocks with maybe an olive drinker. Haven't got there with seven plates in mine yet. Still at it thou.

AC

[Sungy]

I was thinking about bypass line from the top plate to the bottom or second plate with a trap in it to prevent steam bypassing. Thought maybe it would act like more plates. What do you think?

[bentstick]

Congrats sungy,I as well am happy this works for you, Damn dude your taste buds must be salivating by now you must be getting thirsty. If you ya have a grinn now wait untill your first drinkable glass of liquid sunshine hits your palate! Go man go!

[acfixer69]

That was done by another member and got better cleaner whiskey but not closer to vodka. Two times thru my 3 plate is closer to vodka then once thru the 7 plate setup. I think it is the taste density in the vapors pushing on the plates is so much less on the diluted 2nd run My 2 cents.

AC

[emptyglass]

Done well dude, not long now.

Alcohol does behave differently to water, so things may be a little different in regards to plate filling and output times.

Good to hear your valves worked well.

Have a look for some of Mash rookies builds. He installed a bypass tube on one of his columns. IIRC, he used a valve in the line to prevent vapor going up the tube, then opened the valve when the top plate was charged. Also the tube had a smallish bore to stop all the fluid draining. He was chasing neutal. I can't remember if he got there with it or not.

[Barney Fife]

Good on ya!

Skip the vinegar run; just make a quickie 2 or 3 gallon sugar wash, and run that; you'll be cleaning the still, and also learning how she responds with alcohol(very different from water).

[Sungy]

The parrot would also benefit greatly from a straight shot of the feed line instead of the coil; the more volume, the slower the response, and you've added volume for no reason other than to have fun with the copper. Simple is better. Less is more.

You are so right. I tried to run with my parrot and found it was not capable of the flow my still can produce. The coiled product line has to much restriction. The height difference between inlet to the parrot and the overflow was also to small causing it to spill out the surge vent holes at the collection cup on the inlet to the parrot. So we ripped it apart and crated a new one. The inlet line is now 1/2 in OD pipe. This new one rips it up. I also filled the bottom for stability.

Necessity is the mother of invention ....Grandma used to say. Well I have 40 Gallons of Birdwatchers fermenting in 5 gallon plastic jugs. I read directions again.....Hmmm how to measure SG? Hmmm.
Next beer and it hits me .....lets make a dipper out of 3/4 pipe and solder a handle on. Works like a charm. Pull a sample test my temperature and float the SG float(day 2 at 1.07). The rod with a blade is for stirring daily. Its a cooling fan blade from a ventor motor from a high efficiency furnace (dead motor from a job at work). I had to trim the blades a bit but works.

The airlock setup im using ( note the John Deere blanket.......has to help the fermentin ......LOL)
Spent some time with an old buddy of mine last weekend. So after hearing about this project he went threw his junk drawer and handed me a fan, a coil and a fan shroud. Some tin work later and parts from three different units become one.

All that is left to do is split the condenser coil into two coils by unsoldering a return bend and stubbing it out. The 3/8 piping for in and out pipes will be upsized to 1/2. Should be able to handle a lot of the heat from the dephleg. Picked up some rad hose to replace the clear (foggy now) hose from the dephleg as it was to soft when very hot water flows threw it and something about it turning white freaks me out(cant be good).
EDIT: for spelling and clarity.

[Doxxx]

Sungy your heads gna pop from nothing to do when your all done lol awsome thread you need to post a video i want to see this thing running! im about to do away with my pot scrubbers in my 4" and do a plate setup after following your setup progress its inspiring i was just lazy when i made mine lol time for an upgrade

[Sungy]

Are ya ready to see "Pennie Lane" in action?

Me too.

Well today is alcohol cleaning run day and she is loaded and heating up as I write.
Video to follow.........

See ya after my girls all done.....

[Washashore]

Can't wait! So jealous...

[LWTCS]

Well dad burn it,,,,,,,,,,gettin a cramp in my ass as its 6:10 pm now.

[bentstick]

Waiting,waiting,waiting, damn come on sungy. I have to go make more popcorn,and make another drink. Waiting,waiting,waiting. Damn. No just kidin. Good to hear ya put fire under it(so to speak)hope it what ya expected or beyond!

[emptyglass]

Sounds good mate. I sit with baited breath.

Waiting.....

And if you have trouble with your ferments, it will be the John Deere blanket doing it. You need a caterpiller blanket for proper fermenting

[Sungy]

Worked like a dream. Ran 20 liters od birdwashers for a cleaning run and topped off with 12 more liters of water. Full reflux for 25 min then started to collect product. First measured at 183 proof. That was the best I got. I think this was because of the 12 liters of water needed to top off the run. Finnished collecting at 60 proof. Ended up with 2 liters of finnished product. I did run video and will attempt to post them tomorrow.
All in all it was a smashing success.
The only fault I can identify was the bottom plate. The trap is not sufficient to stop the vapor comming up the downcommer. All the other plates worked well. The modified condenser coil worked awesome. This run only raised the cooling water 4'C in 3.5 hours.( ran slow to get a feel for it)
Gonna run the final 40 liters tomorrow.

Thanks for your help peeps ....I could not have done it with out you.....

This site rocks.

[Sungy]

Well here is the video.

Hope you enjoy it.

http://youtu.be/hmo38hR1OT8

I have enlarged the bottom downcommer and fixed an issue (valves were not opening wide enough) with the valves on that plate as well.

[LWTCS]

Tell ya what Sungy,,,,that's a good lookin plant ya got there.
Can ya comment on something about your data collection that you really didn't expect or maybe that surprised ya?

[Sungy]

Now that the perma smile is gone I can finally try to identify the faults in this baby. The bottom plate was a problem. It kept on flooding. I think the downcommer is undersized and the cup needs to be bigger. Also the length of that downcommer is only two inches for the bottom plate. I think if I make a bigger downcommer and make it longer ( say three inches) with a bend to the center it might just work right. The bottom plate acts like a thumper the way it is now.

I got 6.5 liters of ethanol from a 35 liter wash ( 2 liters from the cleaning run yesterday from a 16 liter wash) Most of the run was at 180+ proof.
Foreshots came out a little cloudy but cleared right up to crystal clear after about 50ml. I plan on discarding 200 ml.
Total running time 4.5 hours ( 25 min warm up and 25 min full reflux)

Sampled product on the tip of my finger and it was smooth and did not have any offensive odor.
Not to shabby. Have to wait for tomorrow to make cuts as it has to air out overnight.
A little distress aging and it will be sampling day.

The cooling fan coil works awesome. Four hour run and the 45 gallon drum went up 5.6'C.

Im gonna need more running time to find the sweet spot and be able to find it again the next time.

Now to figure out what to make next.

[bentstick]

Damn nice going So are you happy, I know I Am I went through some stock waiting! But on a serious. I see that your 2 bottom plates are a little full, so how about a run down, looks like a nice control system?
Ya posted when I started!

[Doxxx]

watched the video great job! im realy interested in the control gear i might give somthing similar a go

[emptyglass]

Now that the perma smile is gone

What, already??

Looks a treat mate you have raised the bar.

Now to figure out what to make next.

More mash!

I reckon you need to do a run with a full boiler charge before making any significant changes. I find mine behaves a lot better with more alcohol in the mix. I don't know if yours will, but I'm sure it will act different.
I tip my hat to your efforts.

[Sungy]

So Im trying to sort out the issues with the bottom plate. Im increasing the size of the downcommer to 1/2 inch OD for the bottom plate only the rest will stay at 1/2 inch ID. The caps are going the way of the Dodo bird.

They are being replaced with 180' u bends. This will have two functions.
1st to increase the volume of liquid that the traps can hold and increase the depth of the trap to 1.5 inches(from 3/4). This will allow for higher vapor pressures before the trap pukes its fluid out.
2nd is to get the middle of the U bend partially submerged in the liquid from the plate below (bottom of the trap will be 3/16 above the lower plate).

I think that I was vaporizing the liquid in the trap because the traps are up above the plates in the vapor path. Submerging them will help condense the trap fluid. Under low power inputs the traps would dry out. Under high inputs the traps would blow out.They also are not getting the spay action of the plate boiling and must rely on overflow to maintain a vapor seal.

I think these mods will make it a little less finicky to operate. I noticed the more product that is removed from the boiler the more power and cooling was needed. This trap design should help widen the sweet spot a bit making the adjustments easier and the column more stable in the long run. After all keeping the traps full keeps the ABV up. If the traps are blowing out your not purifying.

When I get the plate tree modified I will post some pics of the modification.