OAK

[mathew11]

Hi all,

Where is a good place in OZ to get some OAK?

I can buy chips from HBS, or EBAY. I really wont some good staves.

I dont want to buy it from the HBS.

[Prairiepiss]

Sory don't live down there. But I do know there are some good wineries down there. You can always hit them up for staves. Sometimes they will have busted barrels. Or old barrels. Or staves left over from repairs. That you mite be able to get from them. They mite even point you to a coperage that could help you out.

Just throwing ideas out there.

[acfixer69]

Wine barrels are not sap clear oak and not recommended for our ABV.

AC

[Dnderhead]

http://www.gibbsbrotherscooperage.com/c ... f890966f22" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
not only that scotch,Irosh used wine barrels is the preferred barrel ,chard is only used for blending.

[Barney Fife]

Don't over-simplify things.....

Yes, wine barrels are used for Scotch and other whiskeys at times, but they are all blended(other than single-barrel malts, but for sure, these will come from select barrels, most likely ones with minimal or no sapwood). Sapwood comprises a small percentage of the total wood in any barrel, and many wine barrels will have none at all, so spirits aged in these barrels and then blended together will present a miniscule percentage of exposure to sapwood.

But cut-up a wine barrel and use individual staves, you may have the unfortunate experience of aging some of your prime product on 100% oak sapwood, which will yield THE most bitter drink you've ever encountered. Luck into a stave that transitions from heartwood to sapwood, and you'll fare a wee bit better.

Bottom line is that for Home Distillers, using minute quantities of oak(minute, relative to the big boys), staying away from sapwood is of utmost importance, and means a complete abstinence from using wine barrels.

If you're feeling lucky, go ahead; it's your drink. Me? I got caught with sapwood once. Only once....

[Prairiepiss]

I've been using wine barrel staves since I started using oak. This is the first I've ever heard of sap wood being used in them? I must be lucky. Haven't had a problem yet. Knock on non sap wood.

[Dnderhead]

they have to be sap cleared,,all this means as their dried or seasoned and not green.
if used green the barrel whould fall apart as it dried.
hart wood is preferred because its more dense than the new growth or the "sap wood"
the following year this years "sap wood" will become heart wood.as the tree grows on the out side.
and the inner wood is really dead.beleve it or not there is laws on making barrels,and all wood for barrels has
to be "sap cleared" or seasoned.it also gave the dimensions of barrel and staves .this law was passed in 1813? and still is on the books.the only barrels you mite fiend made from green wood is ones intended for decorations ..

[Dnderhead]

ok here we go..........digging into the gray matter......
it is important that you use a white oak as opposed to red oak. The oak then needs to be dried to what cooperages refer to as sap clear. They do this by letting the slats or staves of wood dry cross-stacked in the sun for 1 to 3 years. The wood is rotated and rearranged periodically to allow for even drying.

Once the white oak is sap clear it then needs to be toasted. This is typically done over a flame . There is some art and some science to this process. Not only do you need to be concerned about how toasted the wood is becoming, you also need to be concerned about the temperature being used to do the toasting. Both how much you toast the wood and how fast it toasts plays into the flavor the wood will bring to the spirits.

If the wood is toasted too fast there is not enough time for all the caramelized sugars in the wood to raise to the surface. Toast the wood too long and you will raise too much tannin which is bitter.

ok i'm at this time not going to git into details..
(I know because I know and if you dont beleve me just ask me )

[acfixer69]

Wine barrels can be kiln dried. Whiskey barrels must be air dried over time. As explained to me its much like thermometers they come in oral and rectal...both do the job .....only difference is the taste.
To each we make our on choices.
AC

[Dnderhead]

"Wine barrels can be kiln dried."
I beleve you will fiend you have that backward.
wine barrels are all ways air dryed.
some whisky barrels are kilned.

this is because air drying makes a "softer" product.(some tannin has been leached)
kilned barrels can have more tannins.and most whiskey barrels are chard so it makes little difference how it was dryed.
now barrel tannin is more important in making a whisky than wine,wine has its one tannin,whiskey does not.oak tannins plays a role in maturation of whiskey by oxidation it creating fragrance and form compounds like acetals over time.this takes place over 3-10 years(this is what iv stated befor about creating esters from diferat alcohols and carbolic acids and can only take place with time ( not a month in a jar ),after witch the flavors can start to brake down.
and you can have "punky" or old wood flavors.that can be found in some 15-20 yer old whiskeys.

[NcHooch]

Great info Dunder, thanks for sharin

[HolyBear]

Dunder never ceases to amaze me. Who else in this whole world would know that law was passed in 1813???

[Dnderhead]

i beleve it was more of standardising barrels.now everthing is going the other way.what was 1lb(16oz)
is now 15-14-12 oz...???

[Prairiepiss]

13.7258 oz.