uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[Welf Huck]

So is the back set, or the left over corn that gives the flavor profile? The reason I ask is that I can't always run a batch that's through fermenting. I will, though, siphon off the beer into gallon jugs and freeze them. Since I don't have any back-set, I don't save the left-over corn/yeast in the fermenter to start another batch. I've run 3 generations before I ran into scheduling issues that forced me to not preserve the yeast and corn mix. I'll be thawing out the beer from the last ferment and running it in a few days. I'll have some back set to start another batch then.

So you see my concern is that I don't know if it's the back set, the ongoing corn/yeast left in the fermenter, or a combination of both that gives the signature flavor for a great sour mash. Can anyone shed some light for me?

[ipee7ABV]

So is the back set, or the left over corn that gives the flavor profile? The reason I ask is that I can't always run a batch that's through fermenting. I will, though, siphon off the beer into gallon jugs and freeze them. Since I don't have any back-set, I don't save the left-over corn/yeast in the fermenter to start another batch. I've run 3 generations before I ran into scheduling issues that forced me to not preserve the yeast and corn mix. I'll be thawing out the beer from the last ferment and running it in a few days. I'll have some back set to start another batch then.

So you see my concern is that I don't know if it's the back set, the ongoing corn/yeast left in the fermenter, or a combination of both that gives the signature flavor for a great sour mash. Can anyone shed some light for me?

first off you can leave the wash in the fermenter untill you are ready to run. both give flavor. i think the backset gives it a more complex flavor.

[bwpz]

My plan is to replace about 10 lbs of the corn starting on the 3rd generation. Yeast should be good for a while.

How will I know when the corn needs to be replaced, when it floats? How often should the yeast be changed, or added to?

On my ferment barrel, for certain reasons, I'd like to use twin bubble airlocks, would 5 of them be sufficient?

[Ghost]

I always replace the "spent" corn - its usually white and youcan see the difference in it and the bright yellow corn just beneath it.

[Prairiepiss]

The corn will turn greyish. When its depleted. and or float.

Replace the yeast when it no longer works ad it once did. But I've seen people go over 10 generations before they even thought about the yeast. And there are many reports about that in this thread. Along with the answers to many of the questions you are asking.


5 airlocks is overboard. 2 should be sufficient.

Don't over complicated things.

[Prairiepiss]

So is the back set, or the left over corn that gives the flavor profile? The reason I ask is that I can't always run a batch that's through fermenting. I will, though, siphon off the beer into gallon jugs and freeze them. Since I don't have any back-set, I don't save the left-over corn/yeast in the fermenter to start another batch. I've run 3 generations before I ran into scheduling issues that forced me to not preserve the yeast and corn mix. I'll be thawing out the beer from the last ferment and running it in a few days. I'll have some back set to start another batch then.

So you see my concern is that I don't know if it's the back set, the ongoing corn/yeast left in the fermenter, or a combination of both that gives the signature flavor for a great sour mash. Can anyone shed some light for me?

Both the corn and backset make the flavor. You can let the finished ferment sit for a long time. As long as it is sealed with an airlock. So the protective layer of CO2 stays in place. There is no reason to freeze the beer. It will keep just like a wine will. If handled correctly. You could however freezing some backset for future batches.

How long of a time span are we talking? I've had ferments sit for 6 months with no problems. Mater of fact they ended up quite nice. And clear as a bell.

[bwpz]

The corn will turn greyish. When its depleted. and or float.

Replace the yeast when it no longer works ad it once did. But I've seen people go over 10 generations before they even thought about the yeast. And there are many reports about that in this thread. Along with the answers to many of the questions you are asking.


5 airlocks is overboard. 2 should be sufficient.

Don't over complicated things.

2 airlocks on 45 gallons of mash is sufficient? Sounds good to me.

When the yeast dies out, should I just add more, or clean the whole barrel? Should the whole barrel ever need emptying or cleaning, or do you just keep running it over and over? I have quoted my simplified and personalized version of this recipe, does it look right?

45 Gallons of water (33/12 backset)
63lbs sugar
63lbs cracked corn
.56 cups yeast


The corn is included for a bit of alcohol, but mainly for flavor while the sugar provides the alcohol. The conversion of starches to sugars is a natural process, accelerated by cooking. An uncooked mash will convert starches to sugars but much more slowly and less efficiently. Your added sugar will ferment rather easily and will provide most of the alcohol in your barrel.

Put your ingredients into the fermenter in the order listed and close it. Use some hot water at first to melt the sugar. Don't add the yeast unless the temperature is 75-85. You should start to see fermentation of the sugar within 12 hours, and it should take 3 or 4 days for the bubbles to end. Siphon your liquid out of the fermenter with a racking cane into buckets.

Put 33 gallons of water back into the fermenter so your yeast doesn't die for right now. Scoop the spent corn off the top and replace with an equal volume of newly cracked corn. When the corn is depleted, it will turn greyish and/or float.

Take 12 gallons of hot backset from your previous distillations and add it to another 63 pounds of granulated sugar to dissolve it. Let it cool down. Make sure you have removed and replaced any spent corn kernels. Add the backset when it cools to below 85.

Cover the fermenter and let it ferment for another 3-4 days, or until bubbles stop. Siphon your liquid out of the fermenter with a racking cane into buckets and keep repeating this process until the yeast dies out.

[bwpz]

And here are the 60 gallon barrels:



And the description of them:

60 gallon black food grade barrels with screw off removable lids,perfect for rain barrels,compost barrels,dog houses,feed storage,dry storage .
makes a great feed barrel (they are about 40 inches tall and 23 inches wide).

[Superbigstevie]

Is there such a thing as bram build up with the UJSSM? If the lees are left undisturbed (after the wash clears), and a small amount corn changed out each time, would the bram not build up into a thick paste at the bottom of the fermentor over time? At some point do I need to have a bram funeral and rinse the lees with water?

[Prairiepiss]

Here bwpz I rewrote it for you. Something you are getting cornfused on is water volumes. A 45 gal batch isn't going to take 45 gal of water. 63 lbs of sugar in itself will take up approx 5 gallons. And the grains will take approx 8 gallons up even more space. So you need to add enough water to the ingredients to make 45 gallons. So only approx 32 gallons of water will be used in a 45 gallon batch.

45 Gallons total volume
12 Gallons of backset (after first generation)
63lbs sugar
63lbs cracked corn
.56 cups yeast


The corn is included mainly for flavor and nutrients while the sugar provides the alcohol. An uncooked grain wash may convert some starches to sugars. What little will convert will not be noticed in final ABV of wash. . Your added sugar will ferment rather easily and will provide all but a very tiny portion of the alcohol in your finished wash.

First generation.
Add corn to fermenter. Add 15 gallons of boiling water. Mix corn and water very vigorously. So it doesn't clump. Then add the sugar again mix vigorously until sugar is dissolved. A paint mixer in a drill works good for this. Top off to 45 gallons with cool water. Wait until liquid temp gets to between 85 deg f and 90 deg f. Then pitch yeast. You should see signs of fermentation within 12 to 24 hours. Primary fermentation will take from 3 to 10 days. Rack the fermented beer so to leave behind the grain and yeast bed. A racking cane is useful for this.

Add 10 to 15 gallons of water back into the fermenter so your yeast doesn't die for right now. Making sure that water is in the same temp range as the grain bed. Scoop the spent corn off the top and replace with an equal volume of newly cracked corn. When the corn is depleted, it will turn greyish and/or float.

Take 12 gallons of hot backset from your previous distillations and add another 63 pounds of granulated sugar to it to dissolve. Let it cool. Make sure you have removed and replaced any spent corn kernels. After the backset cools to below 85. Add the backset on top of the grain yeast bed that you poured water over. Top off with enough water to make 45 gallons.

Cover the fermenter and let it ferment for another 3 to 10 days, or until bubbles stop. Rack the now clear fermented beer out of the fermenter so to leave the grain and yeast bed. A racking cane is good for this. Keep repeating this process until you feel the yeast aren't working as good as they use to.

[Prairiepiss]

And here are the 60 gallon barrels:



And the description of them:

60 gallon black food grade barrels with screw off removable lids,perfect for rain barrels,compost barrels,dog houses,feed storage,dry storage .
makes a great feed barrel (they are about 40 inches tall and 23 inches wide).

What did they hold before now?

[Prairiepiss]

Is there such a thing as bram build up with the UJSSM? If the lees are left undisturbed (after the wash clears), and a small amount corn changed out each time, would the bram not build up into a thick paste at the bottom of the fermentor over time? At some point do I need to have a bram funeral and rinse the lees with water?

What is bram? And did you mean bram funnel? Instead of bram funeral?

[on1wheel01]

I made my first successful run today. I collected around 1.5 quarts of mostly hearts with s=light amount of heads and tails, and collected around a half quart of the heads and tails. Went great charged it back up and heading towards the sour mash. But the hearts do taste great, is around 80% good burn but nothing too bad. Thanks for the recipe
Pure beauty

My set up, I know I know ghetto but for now it works fine. I run double stills of 16 quart pots.

I do custom speaker boxes and carpentry work on the side as a hobby, and am about to build a table of sort for my cooling buckets to sit on.

[bwpz]

And here are the 60 gallon barrels:



And the description of them:

60 gallon black food grade barrels with screw off removable lids,perfect for rain barrels,compost barrels,dog houses,feed storage,dry storage .
makes a great feed barrel (they are about 40 inches tall and 23 inches wide).

What did they hold before now?

I asked him that question, I'll let you know when he responds. In my post you can see I had 45 total (33/12 backset), so it was 33 gallons of water. I'm going to follow your instructions, thanks (:. What should the PH be? What about the starting and finishing gravity?

[Superbigstevie]

Sorry I guess that was a typo. I ment to say barm "spent yeast".

[bwpz]

When you add the 33 gallons of water and 12 gallons of backset you get 45 gallons. Add in the sugar and corn and you're over 58 gallons, in a 60 gallon barrel. I think that the 33 gallons should turn into 15 gallons of boiling water at the get go added to the corn, then cool water to fill it to 45 total. Would that throw any ratios off? I wouldn't think so since the starting recipe says for 5 gallons of mash use 5 gallons of water.

[Prairiepiss]

I asked him that question, I'll let you know when he responds. In my post you can see I had 45 total (33/12 backset), so it was 33 gallons of water. I'm going to follow your instructions, thanks (:. What should the PH be? What about the starting and finishing gravity?

You still aren't getting it. 32 gallon total amount of liquid in the fermenter.

So it would be 12 gal of backset and 20 gallon of water. The sugar takes up 5 gallon of space. The grain takes up 8 gallon of space.

But all that doesn't matter. Because you will be adding all the ingredients. Then adding enough water to make 45 gallons total.

Starting SG of 1.078 12% potential ABV.
Finishing SG should ne below 1.000? This can vary. To many variables. So the finish SG is what ever it is when it no longer changes.

I added the starting SG to the updated recipe.

[Prairiepiss]

Sorry I guess that was a typo. I ment to say barm "spent yeast".

Dont worry about it. And you can scoop some of it out when you scoop out the spent grains.

[Superbigstevie]

Dont worry about it. And you can scoop some of it out when you scoop out the spent grains.[/quote]

[bwpz]

I asked him that question, I'll let you know when he responds. In my post you can see I had 45 total (33/12 backset), so it was 33 gallons of water. I'm going to follow your instructions, thanks (:. What should the PH be? What about the starting and finishing gravity?

You still aren't getting it. 32 gallon total amount of liquid in the fermenter.

So it would be 12 gal of backset and 20 gallon of water. The sugar takes up 5 gallon of space. The grain takes up 8 gallon of space.

But all that doesn't matter. Because you will be adding all the ingredients. Then adding enough water to make 45 gallons total.

Starting SG of 1.078 12% potential ABV.
Finishing SG should ne below 1.000? This can vary. To many variables. So the finish SG is what ever it is when it no longer changes.

I added the starting SG to the updated recipe.

Thanks for all your help. I'm going to give it a run, and I'm sure I'll have more questions :p Should the pH stay around 5.0 or so?

[Prairiepiss]

I've never worried about Ph. But the most generations I've ever done was 4. Never had a dedicated fermenter. So I had to use one for everything.

[bwpz]

I've never worried about Ph. But the most generations I've ever done was 4. Never had a dedicated fermenter. So I had to use one for everything.

Yeah I was thinking about doing 5 generations then starting fresh. If the temps spiked to 60-65f would it harm it?

[condo33]

I finished stripping Generation 4 yesterday, and though I told myself I wouldn't, I swiped a pint from the mid hearts. I believe I now know what you all have been talking about. I let it air overnight and this morning, Wow! I'm not eloquent enough to put it in words, but it sure smells nice! Sweet, corn smell and no burn to the nose. Smooth over the tongue. I can tell this is still raw white dog, 16 hours old, but I can only wonder what it will be after oaking and aging. I want about 4 gals of this to hide from myself for a year. I'll find at least one jug after 3 months. I think I'll keep this pint around as a guide when making my cuts to the spirit run I'll be doing on Gen 4, 5, and 6.

[Odin]

To further enhance taste on your UJ (be it corn or other grains using the same method), this might be interesting reading:

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 34&t=36241

Odin.

[condo33]

To further enhance taste on your UJ (be it corn or other grains using the same method), this might be interesting reading:

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 34&t=36241

Odin.

Thank you Odin, Whoo wee! Had to break out the Applied Chemistry books. I have to interrupt this series at about Gen 6 due to a demo/remodeling project at home and may restart the UJ with the Maillard reaction corn treatment and backset from my last runs. I assume you've tried this, what was your thoughts on the flavor? I may have missed this in the thread as I was more focused on the standard recipe.

[njscofflaw]

condo you braggart! Just kidding. I'm envious of your progress. I'm about to run gen 2 this weekend. I hope they progress as well as you've had. My time has been non-existent. Its great you're having such success.


I read Odin's post earlier today. I might have to do this with a side by side comparison. Thanks Odin!

[on1wheel01]

I must admit I was a bit disappointed with my first runs strength. It's right at 80 proof. Nice an strong but I wanted at least 100, and then water it down. My question is would it be better to leave as is and not water down. Or run it a second time and then cut it down. What would the difference be. I tried searching but just couldn't find the answer. I guess running it all again instead of just saving the heads and tails to re run could be easier.

[Odin]

Condo, I tried it out with rye and it works great. Didn't try it yet with corn, but I do hear back from others, reading my post on the Maillard Reaction, that it gives them a great product.

So ... maybe you will be the first UJ-er that can show it works for corn UJ as well?

Good luck and hope to hear from you soon.

Odin.

[condo33]

I must admit I was a bit disappointed with my first runs strength. It's right at 80 proof. Nice an strong but I wanted at least 100, and then water it down. My question is would it be better to leave as is and not water down. Or run it a second time and then cut it down. What would the difference be. I tried searching but just couldn't find the answer. I guess running it all again instead of just saving the heads and tails to re run could be easier.

On1wheel01: If you are using a Pot Still, that 's about average for a stripping run ABV. If that was your first bottle off the still, then your wash ABV may have been a bit low at 7 to 8% ABV according to the Calcs in the parent site.
If you plan to re-run (Spirit Run) this batch, be sure to dilute to < 40% ABV for safety.

[Odin]

Just to add: if you dilute to 30% you get over more taste in the spirit run. Especially if you dilute with backset or fresh wash.

Odin.