uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[big cheese]

Long time no see guys. The wife has made this a very hard hobby for me to participate in as she does not like me doing at the house when she and the kids are home.

In the past i have had issues with getting mold in one of my buckets. I am thinking it maybe from adding corn after the fact. Maybe that is how it is getting in the bucket.

Here is my question. Would it still be considered sour mash if I used backset from my run but other than that start over? Where I live corn is cheap and so is yeast.

Another option would be to add boiling water to the fermentors each time to sterilize the batch. I know this would kill my yeast. Would this produce and off taste?

I get sick of opening my buckets and seeing mold on them.

When I make wash I have two 7 gallon buckets and i have had infections in each one.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Big Cheese

[Dnderhead]

If the infection came from the added corn ,pore boiling water over that before adding to ferment.

[Ghost]

use some star san before making your wash - best contact cleaner I have ever used.

[big cheese]

I use star san. I have even cleaned all my equipment with bleach. It seems that most of the time i get an infection is when i go maybe a week or so before i get around to adding the backset to make another batch. But I have also had it happen waiting on the chance to make a run. I was just thinking if i started from scratch I would get the taste of a sour mash but not risk the chance of infection.

[Ridgerunnr]

One issue on the Aquarium heater usage a few posts back...I bougha 25 gallon aq heater and it worked great..UNTIL.. I added setback from a run for another mash. The residual alcohols in it reacted with the rubber mounts that came with the heater..(little suction cups to adhere to tank) I noticed the mash was oily looking when i ran it..tasted like hell so threw it out. Then i got to looking for the issue and found the suction cups were distorted badly...the only thing i can think causing it was the left over alcohol in the backset.

[Livetoride]

Could you not put the fermenter barrel in a large bucket of water that say goes half way up the barrel and fill it with water and chuck the aquarium heater in the water so if it gets to hot you can chuck ice or cold water in it!

I guess it would take a bit more power to heat the mash doing it that way! Just the way I was planing on doing it!

[CuWhistle]

Check your PH.

Odin.

I have experienced varying occurance of ferment stalling at different generations of this recipe, due solely to the pH dropping well into the acidic range. I've had stalls as early as 3rd gen and also much later. Don't know why it varies but that's another issue.

The best / cheapest solution to this problem I have found so far is egg-shells. Chicken egg shells contain mainly calcium of which 90% is CaCO3. Eat your boiled eggs, make your omelette or spinach fritata then rinse your egg sheels off and drop them into the stalled ferment. The acidity of the wash will quickly dissolve the hard outer shell, usually in about 24 hrs, and raise the pH quite effectively. The inner membrane of the shell is left intact and it usually floats to the surface with the CO2 or I've had a couple that I've had to remove from the corn bed after racking off the wash.

A stalled 5 gallon (20 l) wash took only 2 shells to revive and a 12.5 gallon (50 l) running in sync took only 4 egg shells at the same time. I'm only using universal indicator (colour matching) pH testing but it is enough to make the ferment start up again within a day.

I tried using dietary calcium supplement tablets (500 ug + Vit D) but found them to be too expensive for the amount required. I'm a bit of a distance away from the shops so I tried this and it worked beautifully.

[Va_Firewater]

Well I managed to age some of my early Uncle Jessie sourmash for 6 years on white oak and maple. It just keeps gettin better and better. Torched small blocks of oak and maple (crocodile pattern) and put it up 1 gal. glass jugs. Filtered some and left to complete the aging in separate 1.75L jugs, the rest are still in their wood bath. You can't beat Uncle Jessie!

[yankeeclear]

Check your PH.

Odin.

I have experienced varying occurance of ferment stalling at different generations of this recipe, due solely to the pH dropping well into the acidic range. I've had stalls as early as 3rd gen and also much later. Don't know why it varies but that's another issue.

The best / cheapest solution to this problem I have found so far is egg-shells. Chicken egg shells contain mainly calcium of which 90% is CaCO3. Eat your boiled eggs, make your omelette or spinach fritata then rinse your egg sheels off and drop them into the stalled ferment. The acidity of the wash will quickly dissolve the hard outer shell, usually in about 24 hrs, and raise the pH quite effectively. The inner membrane of the shell is left intact and it usually floats to the surface with the CO2 or I've had a couple that I've had to remove from the corn bed after racking off the wash.

A stalled 5 gallon (20 l) wash took only 2 shells to revive and a 12.5 gallon (50 l) running in sync took only 4 egg shells at the same time. I'm only using universal indicator (colour matching) pH testing but it is enough to make the ferment start up again within a day.

I tried using dietary calcium supplement tablets (500 ug + Vit D) but found them to be too expensive for the amount required. I'm a bit of a distance away from the shops so I tried this and it worked beautifully.

Very interesting. Any proportions eggshell / rise in ph (per gallon) to start?

[CuWhistle]

As I said, I was only using a colour change pH indicator (a soil test kit actually) so I can't really give you any scientifically determined measurements. All I can say is that 2 egg shells in 5 gallons was enough to get a stalled ferment back on, and 4 was enough to bring 12.5 gallons back to activity. From the colour chart I was using I'd say these "dosages" were able to bring about a rise of at least 0.5, possibly more on the pH scale.

My stalled ferments were reading around pH 4 or 4.5 (give or take as I'm a bit colour blind) before egg shells and closer to 5 or 5.5 after a day. What I can say is that it worked and it has kept my generations moving a couple of times now. The first time I tried them I was stalled at SG 1030 for a couple of days, in warm weather and with no infections, so I figured the pH must be the cause. Bought some Calcium suppliment (Caltrate) type tabs from the Supermarket and they didn't appear to be doing much so onto google and in my searching for CaCO3 I found Chicken Egg Shells. Hey bingo it worked for me.

I have only been doing 25% backset since then as well so I'm not getting the same level of acidity as quickly.

Give it a try and do some readings if you feel inclined, but I doubt many back mountain shiners had electronic pH meters to work with, but they probably did eat eggs.

[genewms]

I'm thinking the advantage of using all corn (or any single grain) is that the taste can be held constant because you are always only adding just one grain back to the next ferment. If one added mixed graiin bill of rye, barley, etc.(and I'd like to do just that) to get different flavor, I would think that the different grains get consumed at different rates and you would not know how much of each grain type to add back in each later generation. I have seen where people are using different ratios of grains, but how does one know how much of each to add back into the next ferment? You could keep the ratio of grains constant in adding new grain to later ferments but that assumes the different grains get consumed at equal rates. Thoughts???

[CuWhistle]

The original recipe instructs the operator to remove spent corn and replace with equal amount of fresh. I read somewhere that this isn't really required and so I have not been worrying too much about it. There is a little discoloured stuff that floats to the surface or forms a very thin layer on the bed when you rack it off, but it is mostly essentially good yellow corn even after several generations and the flavour is still pretty good. We are putting a fair bit in to start with so it doesn't appear to be essential to do this all too often.

[Offshore]

Hello, I’m have started UJSSM. I am on the 3rd. Generation, all of the 1st gen I put in the 2nd gen and striped both, my question is, would it be ok to put all of the 1st and 2nd generation into the 3rd generation and strip all of them together and then do a final 2nd run, spirit run. Thank you for any help.

[Fastill]

Hello, I’m have started UJSSM. I am on the 3rd. Generation, all of the 1st gen I put in the 2nd gen and striped both, my question is, would it be ok to put all of the 1st and 2nd generation into the 3rd generation and strip all of them together and then do a final 2nd run, spirit run. Thank you for any help.

I would add Gens 1&2 to gen.3 and run it low and slow and keep that as a spirit run. I usually dilute my strips by adding to a wash when ready to run.

[talon]

Could you not put the fermenter barrel in a large bucket of water that say goes half way up the barrel and fill it with water and chuck the aquarium heater in the water so if it gets to hot you can chuck ice or cold water in it!

I guess it would take a bit more power to heat the mash doing it that way! Just the way I was planing on doing it!

I've posted this before so sorry for being redundant, I use an old heating blanket set on the lowest setting then slowly move it temp up till the mash is at the temp I want, works great. Many people use a heating pad, under their mash, but I like the blanket because it heats the mash all over instead of just from one area.

Coming from a beer making background, my philosophy was everything needs to be really clean before the boil, then sterile after the boil. Since you don’t have a typical wort boil in distilling like in beer brewing, how do you prevent added grains from causing infections? I’m sure there’s a lot of germs in some of the cracked corn you buy.

[Odin]

Don't work too clean. Lacto infection is probably part of what makes the souring process in this recipe worthwhile. And don't boil the wort. Not needed.

Odin.

[on1wheel01]

Just wondering is this normal? I have not opened a mash to check on it early before, but I filled this one too much to the top and it puked into my bubbler which is why I opened to clean the top and bubbler. What is all this the yeast?

[Odin]

Looks like it is fermenting pretty violently. How does it smell?

Odin.

[on1wheel01]

Looks like it is fermenting pretty violently. How does it smell?

Odin.

I've been sick as a dog and sinuses are so clogged I have no clue lol. My buddy says it smells just like the others have though. And yes she has a lot of action coming out of the air lock

[CuWhistle]

How soon after you refilled it did this happen? My ferments go a bit hard in the first day or so then settle down. Beer brewers will also know that the beer ferment goes quite hard (high krausen) for a brief period after the yeast colony has grown then settles to a slower ferment. I'd say you just put it too close to the top so it bubbled into your air lock.

[on1wheel01]

Oh for sure I know I filled it too much. That mash was built last Sunday Feb 24th. Still bubbling pretty strong.

[CuWhistle]

Here's a good Aussie saying for ya.
"She'll be right mate."

[travelin man]

Second Fermentation

Your fermenter should now contain 3-3/4 gallons of water, your old yeast (barm) and your old corn.

Take 1-1/4 gallons of backset from your previous distillation and add to it another 7 pounds of granulated sugar. This will dissolve the sugar rather easily. Hot backset directly from the still works better at dissolving sugar, but adding hot backset to your fermenter will kill your yeast, so allow the backset to cool if you use this method.

Next, add this mixture of sugar and cooled backset to your fermenter, which already contains 3-3/4 gallons of water. This will bring your total beer volume back to 5 gallons.

Now is the time to make sure you have removed and replaced any spent corn kernels, which float to the top of the fermenter. You only need to do this if you plan on a continual ferment, that is, past 7 or 8 fermentations at which point your corn would otherwise be expended.

Cover the fermenter and let it ferment for another 3-4 days or until the ebullition ends.

Congratulations, if you have done everything properly you are now ready to run your first sour mash





i may have made a mistake here......i did everything it says at the top but....i added more yeast....is this gonna hurt or will it just do its thing?

[on1wheel01]

I sometimes add a little more yeast haven't seen any issue with doing so.

[Ridgerunnr]

Ran 1st mash of this yesterday..1st out at 100 proof..and i ran down 30% to run w next batch. I added 1 1/2 gal of backset
To the next mash and shes bubblin nicely this morning.
I DID keep a 1/2 qt at 80 proof to sip on lol just couldnt resist.
Its airing out under coffee filter now. It has a very light popcorn flavor and
Is pretty smooth stuff.

[BoomTown]

Check your PH.

Odin.

I have experienced varying occurance of ferment stalling at different generations of this recipe, due solely to the pH dropping well into the acidic range. I've had stalls as early as 3rd gen and also much later. Don't know why it varies but that's another issue.

The best / cheapest solution to this problem I have found so far is egg-shells.

That's a great suggestion, I think I'll give it a try too.

[Shoutatthesky]

Is there a glossary on HD where I can learn what these acronyms mean? I get the Uncle Jesse's Simple Sour Mash one but there are so many on HD.

Walking Wolf - when you say you could get five runs before the grain needs to be changed you're not saying you use the same actual grain in multiple washes are you? Wouldn't it go off and be mighty unhygienic?

[Prairiepiss]

Is there a glossary on HD where I can learn what these acronyms mean? I get the Uncle Jesse's Simple Sour Mash one but there are so many on HD.

Walking Wolf - when you say you could get five runs before the grain needs to be changed you're not saying you use the same actual grain in multiple washes are you? Wouldn't it go off and be mighty unhygienic?

Yes there is a glossary look in the must read new distiller reading lounge.

And yes he is talking about the same grains. The alcohol content and sugar content preserve it. Keeping it from going bad. Not to mention the CO2 blanket covering it.

[Kittra]

I have been trying to get the hang of UJSSM and having no luck. I use water with no chlorine ,carbon filtered in the batch I am trying now. I've used spring water, drinking water and even distilled water and still nothing. I'm using food grade , 6 gallon buckets for fermenting. Every thing is cleaned and sterilized after each try. The corn I used in the past was from Tractor Supply ( cracked ) and this last mash I'm using corn from Southern States. I have tried all kinds of yeast. I used Prestige WD whiskey yeast this go round. I just can't figure what I am doing wrong. Temp is kept at 70* constant.Any idea's will be greatly appreciated.......

[Stilly]

I have been trying to get the hang of UJSSM and having no luck. I use water with no chlorine ,carbon filtered in the batch I am trying now. I've used spring water, drinking water and even distilled water and still nothing. I'm using food grade , 6 gallon buckets for fermenting. Every thing is cleaned and sterilized after each try. The corn I used in the past was from Tractor Supply ( cracked ) and this last mash I'm using corn from Southern States. I have tried all kinds of yeast. I used Prestige WD whiskey yeast this go round. I just can't figure what I am doing wrong. Temp is kept at 70* constant.Any idea's will be greatly appreciated.......

Things to try, bump your temperature up to 75-80F, aerate the wash for several minutes at the start of ferment, check your ph , adjust up if needed with calcium carobonate. Use bread yeast and try over pitching it, up to 2 tablespoons per gallon of wash.

cheers
stilly