Why so much variation on amount of yeast?

[trigger985]

So now that I am almost ready to put down my first washes and I am re-reading all the recipes in the tried and true section I have noticed that there is a large variation in the amount of yeast each recipe calls for. Take UJSSM and sweet feed for instance (I am planning on doing both of these), for UJSSM the recipe calls for 1 tablespoon of yeast for a 5 gallon wash and in sweet feed it calls for 8 tablespoons in 6 gallons of wash. The are both grain sugar head recipes, you could follow the same process on both and the only thing that is not close in each recipe (besides grain bill of course) is amount of yeast used. I'm not trying to pinch pennies or anything it just came up in my research and thought I would ask. Thanks all.

[culvercreek]

I am new to the distilling but am not to wine and ciders. I would think that it is really their personal preference and past experience of the recipe developer or owner. Let's face it. Yeasts multiply. A lesser initial dose may increase the fermenting time but it will get there. If you dosed the SF recipe with one table spoon it will get there.....eventually.

[T-Pee]

I am new to the distilling but am not to wine and ciders. I would think that it is really their personal preference and past experience of the recipe developer or owner. Let's face it. Yeasts multiply. A lesser initial dose may increase the fermenting time but it will get there. If you dosed the SF recipe with one table spoon it will get there.....eventually.

I'd agree to that. I will add that less is not better though. The yeast only have so much O2 in the wash to multiply. If they run out of oxygen before the colony gets to a good size the ferment will be slower (I think) because of the smaller colony than you could have had.

Admittedly, a bit of an EWAG on my part though.

tp

[Jimbo]

http://byo.com/recipes-tag/item/1248-pi ... by-numbers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[culvercreek]

I am new to the distilling but am not to wine and ciders. I would think that it is really their personal preference and past experience of the recipe developer or owner. Let's face it. Yeasts multiply. A lesser initial dose may increase the fermenting time but it will get there. If you dosed the SF recipe with one table spoon it will get there.....eventually.

I'd agree to that. I will add that less is not better though. The yeast only have so much O2 in the wash to multiply. If they run out of oxygen before the colony gets to a good size the ferment will be slower (I think) because of the smaller colony than you could have had.

Admittedly, a bit of an EWAG on my part though.

tp

I agree. I have heard similar arguments made to super charging with yeast quantity as well and there being negative effects like off taste. More fuel for the fire of sticking to what is proven to work. I definitely can see where this hobby is about little variations not monster side steps.

[rtalbigr]

The best I can figure is some individuals think more is better or they think more will insure a quick start thus avoiding other problems. Most individual yeast packs for wine contain 5 gms to ferment 5-6 gal of wine. 5 gms is approximately 1 teaspoon. So one tablespoon is significant over-pitching and 8 tablespoons is well.....

Over pitching in beer/wine can lead to a lot of undesirable consequences that are not of such great concern in distilling. Still, why use all that yeast when it just isn't necessary? Over-pitching will always result in a weak and unhealthy yeast colony because of over competition for limited resources. Properly re-hydrating proper amounts of yeast will result in healthy yeast colonies and ultimately a superior end product.

Big R

[heartcut]

For a 10 gal batch of rye and barley beer at 1.066, Beer Smith recommends 3# 11.5gm packages of Safeale S-05. I've found under pitching adds more flavors but increases the chance of infection (not always better flavor), the "recommended" amount is smoother and fast fermenting and over pitching changes the flavor (for better or worse) and speeds things up a little more.
I like under pitching rum and over pitching sugarhead whiskey, but stick to the recommended amount for AG stuff (after that much work I don't experiment much). Your pitch is just one more thing to dial in to what you like.

[Prairiepiss]

It's all personal preference. We humans like to do things that we know works for us. Things that are within our comfort zone. Make us more comfortable.

Just look at it this way. If the recipes calls for x amount. Use x amount. It wouldn't be posted in the tried and true if it didn't work. Now experimenting after you have learned about good yeast usage. And health. Then you will be better prepared to sucssefully experiment.

In my opinion under pitching is probably the worst thing. You could do. But don't mistake under pitching for the amount of yeast used. A table spoon of dry yeast pitched. Is different the a table spoon of dry yeast rehydrated correctly. And used in a starter correctly. It's two different things. And each will give you different results. When I say under pitching I'm saying using way to little to antiquity do the job.

Those that dry pitch tend to use more yeast. Those that rehydrate and or make starters. Tend to use less. Why you ask? Lag time. The time it takes the yeast to use up all the oxygen and start fermenting.
Dry pitching the yeast need to rehydrate and start working. Then they start splitting and increasing the colony size. This takes time. And the more you start with. The less time it takes.
Rehydrated and starter. The yeast have already been rehydrated. Already started working. And already started splitting building up the colony. So by the time you pitch it. The colony is already healthy and doubled if not quadrupled in size. Depending on how long you let it work before pitching. It better aclimates the yeast to the environment they will be working in. So they are less stressed when pitched. All around better for them. The lag time is generally shorter because of this.

This subject is really deep. And is another chapter or ten of learning. You can dig deep into it. Like I know BigR has. I think Jimbo has also. Or you can just go by what the recipes call for. And learn all the rest of the things you need to learn first. Then you can go back and dig deeper it the yeast thing. Because there is way more then any of us could post in this thread. Books and books worth.

Eventualy you will find your comfort spot. And you will more then likely do what the rest of us do. Not even look at what the recipes says about pitching yeast. And just do what we have come to make as our main procedure. But till then stick with the basics. It's much easier.

[trigger985]

Thanks for all the replies. I am defiantly going to follow the recipes and get a hang of things first I just thought it was interesting and asked. But now for arguments sake if re-hydrating yeast and making a starter is better for the yeast and ultimately is better for the ferment why don't more recipes call for it? Is it because it's easier to sprinkle dry yeast over and let her go?

[Jimbo]

Lots of folks new ones especially get overwhelmed easy. Keep it simple. Enjoy some success then folks who stick at it will start dialing it in

[Prairiepiss]

Lots of folks new ones especially get overwhelmed easy. Keep it simple. Enjoy some success then folks who stick at it will start dialing it in

+1

[Drunken Unicorn]

I used to follow the pitch amounts in the tried and true receipts until I actually looked at the yeast packages. I find that if I use the recommend amount on the package and hydrate the yeast properly, the finish time isn't that much different. That's what I've found.

Unicorn

[Vulture]

I joined this site in 2010 and although I haven’t posted much it’s because I haven’t had a lot to add to the multitude of good information already posted.
90% of what I know about stilling came from all the regulars here.
So with over 4 years under my belt now I thought I would post this because it is something that has worked very well for me with very little failure…

Did I stumble on the right combination of yeast pitching that follows all of those numbers you read about above……. Maybe….
If I read for the next year on yeast pitching could I improve on my success…..Maybe……Maybe not.

All I know is I make damn good spirits for all types of use out of SNS..(Sugar Neutral Spirits)….( As opposed to GNS or Grain Neutral Spirits).

And this is the way I pitch,

I make six 25ltr washes at a time (usually on Friday night).
I use a modified Birdwatchers recipe.
First I make the first 25ltr batch of BW, but only make 10 ltrs of it so it’s concentrated. Then I take about 2 ltrs out of the 10 to another container.
I then finish the first 25 ltr BW with more ingredients so it is roughly the same as the next five I’m about to make.
To the 2 ltr yeast starter container I add about 1/3 cup Distillers yeast and stir to mix and aerate about every 15 to 20 minutes over the next 2 hours while I finish the other five 25ltr batches of BW.
When all six are done I adjust for PH to about 5.8 mix all with a wand to aerate then pour 1/6 of the starter in each one, then mix to aerate again, then sprinkle dry yeast on the surface to half cover, then mix to aerate again. (Half cover means I sprinkle the surface but can see liquid also… so you might also call it a dusting.)

Cap, air lock and leave for 4 days.

SG 1.085 to 1.09
FG .990 to .995

Vul