Trash cans for fermenting - Continued

Post by **S-Cackalacky** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:10 pm

I noticed a while back that Tractor Supply had a 20 gallon grain storage bin made by Brute. It was also translucent which might be a good thing. Has anyone used one of these?

I didn't find it on the TSC website, but this is it from another source - http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/80 ... erm=808094" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow .

Hound Dog · Post by **Hound Dog** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:21 pm

S-Cackalacky wrote:I noticed a while back that Tractor Supply had a 20 gallon grain storage bin made by Brute. It was also translucent which might be a good thing. Has anyone used one of these?

I didn't find it on the TSC website, but this is it from another source - http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/80 ... erm=808094" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow .

I use one of these. I picked it up and had to laugh, there is a line near the bottom that is a perfect fill mark for the amount of sweet feed needed to make a batch in this size container!

Kind of cool how they look out for us like that.

Post by **S-Cackalacky** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:36 pm

Hound Dog wrote:
S-Cackalacky wrote:I noticed a while back that Tractor Supply had a 20 gallon grain storage bin made by Brute. It was also translucent which might be a good thing. Has anyone used one of these?

I didn't find it on the TSC website, but this is it from another source - http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/80 ... erm=808094" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow .
I use one of these. I picked it up and had to laugh, there is a line near the bottom that is a perfect fill mark for the amount of sweet feed needed to make a batch in this size container! Kind of cool how they look out for us like that.

Not too surprising with all the stillers they probably got walking through the door.

How do you like it? I'm thinking it might be just the right size for enough wash to do 3 or 4 stripping runs in my 5 gallon pot still.

Hound Dog · Post by **Hound Dog** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:53 pm

S-Cackalacky wrote:
Hound Dog wrote:
S-Cackalacky wrote:I noticed a while back that Tractor Supply had a 20 gallon grain storage bin made by Brute. It was also translucent which might be a good thing. Has anyone used one of these?

I didn't find it on the TSC website, but this is it from another source - http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/80 ... erm=808094" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow .
I use one of these. I picked it up and had to laugh, there is a line near the bottom that is a perfect fill mark for the amount of sweet feed needed to make a batch in this size container! Kind of cool how they look out for us like that.
Not too surprising with all the stillers they probably got walking through the door.

How do you like it? I'm thinking it might be just the right size for enough wash to do 3 or 4 stripping runs in my 5 gallon pot still.

I like it better than my plain white one because you can see when everything has settled. Helps with racking. Size wise they are perfect for me. I toss a 25# sack of sugar in there with a couple boxes of cereal, fill it most of the way up and I am at 10%. After fermenting, I rack off into three 5 gallon buckets to clear and toss the trub or start another batch with it. This is a perfect charge for my 19 gallon boiler. I would imagine the three 5 gallon buckets not quite topped off would make four nice charges for your pot.

And a drywall mud mixer in my battery drill reaches right to the bottom to mix it up.

Post by **S-Cackalacky** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:16 pm

Thanks Hound Dog! Four strips is about my limit for a one day session. Might be picking one up my next trip to TSC.

Post by **Truckinbutch** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:29 pm

The manager of my local TSC has learned to recognize stillers and does what he can do to accomodate us . Slants his inventory orders in our favor . This is a good thing .
>Don't fuck with stealing hub caps : take the whole car . 44 gal food grade Brute takes up less space than 9 5 gal buckets and gives a more even ferment . How much you rack off at a given time is up to you .

bads197 · Post by **bads197** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:51 am

I picked up a 32 gallon Trashmaster can from Walmart yesterday HDPE2 is the code on the bottom. While I'm excited to do my first 30 gallon ferment, i'm wondering about the "plastic" smell. I havnt washed it yet but will when it's closer to the time to start fermenting, probably wash and sanitize several times before then.

Curious if one HDPE2 is the same as the next HDPE2 container?

Headed to home depot this week so i'll pickup a brute 32 gallon as well.

Post by **S-Cackalacky** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:50 pm

bads197 wrote:I picked up a 32 gallon Trashmaster can from Walmart yesterday HDPE2 is the code on the bottom. While I'm excited to do my first 30 gallon ferment, i'm wondering about the "plastic" smell. I havnt washed it yet but will when it's closer to the time to start fermenting, probably wash and sanitize several times before then.

Curious if one HDPE2 is the same as the next HDPE2 container?

Headed to home depot this week so i'll pickup a brute 32 gallon as well.

HDPE, or recycle code 2 is considered food safe. However, it is possible that the pigment used to color it can taint it and make it unsafe. If the trash can is grey, black, white or clear (translucent), it is probably OK. I wouldn't trust anything red, orange, green, or blue. There are some HDPE commercial food containers that are blue. Many here use them, but I wouldn't use it unless I knew for certain that its original intent was for the storage of food. It all comes down to what was used for the base color pigment. Cadmium red, yellow, or orange is toxic, as is cobalt blue and lead based white. A grey or black HDPE trash can is probably a safe bet.

bads197 · Post by **bads197** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:32 pm

It is a black can.

I wash it several times really good and the Brute I get as well.

One of them needs to hold water for the cooling and one the fermentation. If the trashmaster is the one that still smells funny i'll just use it for water.

thanks S-cackalacky

Post by **S-Cackalacky** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:37 pm

I don't know what might take the smell out of it. You might try a box or two of baking soda with it filled with water and let it sit for a day or so. Oxyclean might also work, don't know.

Post by **HDNB** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:57 pm

there is probably some kind of mold release agent on the surface, like an oil or something. soap and water will help.

i got a used 205L olive barrel from a commercial deli. smelled like garlic and vinegar and olives (go figger) i washed, scrubbed, sanitized, baking soda'd. and then gave up and just did a ferment. holy crap! that really brought out the smell...but it did not carry over at all. i've used it several times and the garlic/olive/vinegar smell is still there... but the whiskey is great!

badbird · Post by **badbird** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:00 am

i got a used 205L olive barrel from a commercial deli.

++ on the olive barrels, $20 and you know they are food grade.

Personally I wouldn't touch the trash cans for fermenting. They mostly all comes out of China now, there is no control of what materials goes into them so can be made from any recycled HDPE including pesticide and pharmaceutical drums. Then there is the mold release agent, you can bet its the cheapest crap they can find and defiantly not food grade, after all its only a trash can.....

bb

Post by **S-Cackalacky** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:50 am

I'm pretty sure Brute (made by Rubbermaid) is made in America. I pass by one of their big plants once in awhile when I venture into Winchester, VA. Don't know about the recycled HDPE or what process it might go through when being reused.

Post by **S-Cackalacky** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:06 pm

For some reason this topic got moved to the reading lounge and is now read-only - http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p7311923 . I wanted to add something about the grey Brute 32 gallon trash cans.

I was in Tractor Supply a few days ago to purchase a 20 gallon Brute Seed-Feed storage bin. I noticed that the recycle number is 4 which is LDPE. Out of curiosity I went over to where they had the Brute 32 gallon trash cans and found that they are also LDPE. As far as I know, the only significant differences between LDPE and HDPE, besides molecular alignment, are heat tolerance and durability. HDPE can handle slightly higher temps and is more rigid than LDPE.

I was always under the impression that the Brute trash cans were HDPE. What little information I found says that LDPE begins to soften at 233dF and HDPE at 267dF. I'm assuming that LDPE at a temp of 212dF (boiling water) would be OK. Does anyone have any concerns about the lower heat tolerance of LDPE?

Post by **S-Cackalacky** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:32 pm

Thanks Rock. Thought I was losing my mind there for a moment.

Hound Dog · Post by **Hound Dog** » Fri May 01, 2015 1:22 am

badbird wrote:
i got a used 205L olive barrel from a commercial deli.
++ on the olive barrels, $20 and you know they are food grade.

Personally I wouldn't touch the trash cans for fermenting. They mostly all comes out of China now, there is no control of what materials goes into them so can be made from any recycled HDPE including pesticide and pharmaceutical drums. Then there is the mold release agent, you can bet its the cheapest crap they can find and defiantly not food grade, after all its only a trash can.....

bb

Where are the olive barrels you use actually made? Pretty sure they are sourced from the cheapest place possible to transport their product. Most companies thrive on the bottom dollar numbers.
Rubbermaid trash cans are made here in the States, not far from where I live.

About Rubbermaid Commercial Products, LLC Rubbermaid Commercial Products, headquartered in Winchester, Va., is a manufacturer of innovative, solution-based products for commercial and institutional markets worldwide. Since 1968, RCP has pioneered technologies and system solutions in the categories of food services, sanitary maintenance, waste handling, material transport, away-from-home washroom, and safety products.

badbird · Post by **badbird** » Fri May 01, 2015 4:41 am

Glad to know brutes are still made in the States but bare in mind the standard ones are LDPE and comply with (NSF/ANSI) Standard 2, as in they are for use in a food processing area and not for the actual storage of food. The olive drums I have are ISO 22000:2005 HDPE, food grade when first filled and made in Greece, no doubt by the lowest bidder.
I doubt that the brute trash cans or olive drums for that matter are a problem, its the cheep no name stuff from Walmart etc.(particularity in the dark colors) that I wouldn't use. Anyway every one has to do their own risk assessment and lives with the consequences.

bb

Post by **Boda Getta** » Mon May 04, 2015 12:23 pm

Been using the RubberMaid Brute for years and would think of using anything else; known to be safe and not expensive given the quality and how heavy duty are. They also offer a wheeled dolly that works great for moving a full fermenter around.

BG

carbohydratesn · Post by **carbohydratesn** » Mon May 04, 2015 12:45 pm

Brutes are indeed LDPE. I just avoid putting boiling liquids in them - backset goes into 5gal HDPE buckets first to cool off. LDPE is also permeable to oxygen, unlike HDPE. That's another big difference. So they're great for primary fermentation, but not as good as HDPE for long-term storage.

Pirata · Post by **Pirata** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:40 am

I just bought a 20 gallon grey Brute for fermenting mostly rum washes. I upgraded from using 3- 3 gallon buckets to get a 9 gallon run (Those were what I could get for free). I added a spiggot near bottom of can. Originally I was just going to use it for 1 ferment at a time but it will hold enough for 2 runs. If i go ahead and use this for fermenting 2 runs at a time- will the first and second batch I pull off be equal or will top and bottom half be different in alcohol content and other traits?
Also- I put the drain spiggot at the 2 gallon mark in hopes that i can just drain down to there and what comes off top will be ready for my pot still with out further clarification or filtering. (I plan on using the 2 gallons in bottom as start for next batch.)
Any ideas would be appreciated.

jellyman · Post by **jellyman** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:48 am

I use 32 gallon trash cans but put 32 gallon construction grade trash bag in it as liner. works great! Easy to wash if needed but not needed. I usually sour mash going from one batch to the next. I use field run rye ground by me 3-4 gallons meal; 24 pounds of sugar and 25 gallons of well water. It will form a cap of rye after 12 hours with gas coming up through it. I stir for 2-3 days. It works for about 4-5 more and then quietens down. Run it as soon as I can after it gets quiet but some times can't for many days after it gets quiet.

Post by **DFitz** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:57 am

Truckinbutch wrote:I use 2 44 gallon RubberMaid food grade cans and aquarium heaters . Insulate them and they work great .

Last year I modified a 55 gal drum to hold my mash barrel. I hold water in the drum with an aquarium heater warming my mash. I've held an 80F mash temp in as low as -15F ambient. I've worried in the past that the aquarium heater would become too hot in the area surrounding the heater. This has worked better for me holding a perfect temp for my mash.

Post by **raketemensch** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:33 pm

DFitz wrote:
Truckinbutch wrote:I use 2 44 gallon RubberMaid food grade cans and aquarium heaters . Insulate them and they work great .
Last year I modified a 55 gal drum to hold my mash barrel. I hold water in the drum with an aquarium heater warming my mash. I've held an 80F mash temp in as low as -15F ambient. I've worried in the past that the aquarium heater would become too hot in the area surrounding the heater. This has worked better for me holding a perfect temp for my mash.

Are those drains passed right through the temp-controlled water into your mash barrels?

That may be the ideal situation that I've been searching for, plus a little platform/bench to lift them up enough to just pour right into the keg.

Steep-n-Rocky · Post by **Steep-n-Rocky** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 1:26 pm

Brilliant! Same question as raketemensch though, do the drains pass through the water barrel? If so I would be interested in how that was designed and is currently working out.

Post by **UnSub** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:41 am

Out of curiosity...

I happen to be cleaning out a bomb shelter and have access to dozens (putting it mildly) of 17.5g metal water drums with lids. They actually still have water in them (bagged). Would it make any sense to recycle them as ferment containers if I use a HDPE liner?

And... Also curious.... What about all those crackers? Would they/could they be used to create a decent mash? If so: ironically the product would be "Government Surplus"! Hahahaha

Hound Dog · Post by **Hound Dog** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:50 am

UnSub wrote:
Out of curiosity...

I happen to be cleaning out a bomb shelter and have access to dozens (putting it mildly) of 17.5g metal water drums with lids. They actually still have water in them (bagged). Would it make any sense to recycle them as ferment containers if I use a HDPE liner?

And... Also curious.... What about all those crackers? Would they/could they be used to create a decent mash? If so: ironically the product would be "Government Surplus"! Hahahaha

Your not transferring that stock to your own shelter?

Post by **UnSub** » Fri May 13, 2016 8:48 am

No.. Moving water isn't an advantage anyway I look at it. Lol

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Post by **pfshine** » Fri May 13, 2016 9:24 am

Don't know what kind of metal it's made of. Check for a stamp. Either way I should not be used without a liner per warning on the front. If all else fails you can use it as a commode.

Post by **nerdybrewer** » Fri May 13, 2016 9:53 am

On the subject, my currently fermenting batch of Buccaneer Bob's rum is in a 96 gallon trash can.
Once I worked out a few kinks it's going great, it's going to take many runs through my 15.5 gallon keg still but that's ok.
I aim to fill some oak barrels, one thing the past year has taught me is that I need to ramp up my rum production!

Post by **UnSub** » Fri May 13, 2016 11:30 am

Lol pfshine, hence my question about HDPE bag liners. I had also (at the time) asked about using the crackers for a mash but have since read that the gubmint asked all supplies be disposed of due to spoilage.. They went the way of the dumpster... In the bright side, they'd make great decor :-/

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