Ongoing Banana Madness

[raketemensch]

As some of you know, I've been doing some experimental banana washes, so I figured I'd start a thread on them.

My first batch (targeting 2 gallons) was as follows:

12 bananas, browned in the sun
5 cups sugar
1tbsp Soylent (a very nutrient-rich dietary thing that I eat for 2/3 of meals)
EC-1118 pitched at 71 degrees
OG: 1.058
FG: 1.002 (7.2%)

I didn't cook the bananas, or use the peels, I simply peeled them and ran them through the blender with some water.

I started this batch back on 10/2, and since it was only a 2-gallon batch I wasn't eager to waste a whole hydrometer flask of liquid, so I was judging it by taste. My wort refractometer arrived today, and I finally got a reading, and after adjusting it for the alcohol present, I finished up at 7.2%. I'd like to get something a *little* higher, but not much. I'm not going into this with huge expectations, I'm just hoping to finish up with some good banana booze.

Today I went to Stop and Shop, and since the Produce Guy was stocking bananas, I asked what they do with the ones that had browned already -- he directed me to a back hallway of the store, where they have plastic bags of browned bananas for something like 10-15cents/pound, so I loaded up on enough for a 5-gallon ferment, which I'll start tonight. Not only do I not have to keep bringing them in and out of the house to get them to brown in the sunlight, they're cheaper than usual too. Win-win.

I also ordered up some WLP300 Hefeweizen yeast -- it's got the banana esters that I'm after, and it's happy at 68 degrees, which is what my basement is most of the time. I was thinking of using this method to stash some of this yeast for future ferments, but I want to get it going tomorrow, and I just don't have the time. Hopefully I'll keep this mash going for a few generations, so the $6 for the yeast should be well-spent anyway.

So, tomorrow's recipe will be:

1) Slice up the 32 bananas, with skins.
2) Bring them to a boil in a paint/strainer bag, then let them simmer for 30 minutes
3) Squeeze everything out of the strainer bag.
4) Melt 12.5 pounds of sugar in the hot mash
5) Cool it to ~75 degrees and pitch the WLP300

I'm not 100% certain of how much sugar I'm going to add, I'm thinking of target 1.070 for an OG, please speak up if you think you've got a better target for it. With the new refractometer, testing this stuff should be much, much easier.

Then it all gets topped up to 5 gallons in the bucket. I'm also adding a spigot to my 6.5-gallon Ale Pail, to make refractometer and taste tests easier.

If all goes well, I plan to keep the bed in the bucket for multiple batches, we'll see how that works out. I haven't distilled any of this yet, I've just been drinking it as-is, but if this next batch comes out with a stronger banana flavor I might try distilling a few gallons of it in the little stockpot.

[firewater69]

12.5 lbs of sugar for a 5 gallon batch? edit: Sorry,I just read it again, and you said you weren't sure how much your going to use. I'm curious to know what your getting from the fruit only.

[raketemensch]

I'm asking around among my middle eastern friends to see if anyone knows where one could find jaggery locally. It's like $4-6/lb on Amazon. I could order 110 pounds of it on alibaba, but I can't imagine what shipping would be.... That's the smallest order I could find, usually it's a minimum of a ton.

12.5 lbs of sugar for a 5 gallon batch? edit: Sorry,I just read it again, and you said you weren't sure how much your going to use. I'm curious to know what your getting from the fruit only.

Yeah, me too. I didn't get much from the first batch, so I'm hoping that the cooking and the peels will get me some more convertables.

[NZChris]

Holding it at around 140F for a while might get you some conversion, but boiling would destroy the enzymes you need.

[firewater69]

I'm gonna do a step mash with the peels, just like an all grain. i've got some bananas in the freezer waiting on me to go get some more. I promised S- Cackalacky that i'd do a write up when I get around to making it.

[firewater69]

I'm asking around among my middle eastern friends to see if anyone knows where one could find jaggery locally. It's like $4-6/lb on Amazon. I could order 110 pounds of it on alibaba, but I can't imagine what shipping would be.... That's the smallest order I could find, usually it's a minimum of a ton.

12.5 lbs of sugar for a 5 gallon batch? edit: Sorry,I just read it again, and you said you weren't sure how much your going to use. I'm curious to know what your getting from the fruit only.

Yeah, me too. I didn't get much from the first batch, so I'm hoping that the cooking and the peels will get me some more convertables.

this would be a good time to use liquid enzymes if you have any.

[raketemensch]

this would be a good time to use liquid enzymes if you have any.

I wish I did, I hadn't even thought of that.

This was supposed to be a little casual project, but it's growing pretty rapidly. I've got a candy thermometer in the stockpot, I'll try to keep it below 140, thanks.

That's a lot of bananas:

(banana for scale)

[MichiganCornhusker]

Alright, I'm in. Just bought 4 pair of socks, 3 bars of soap, and 50 lbs of bananas. And I still got asked about the bananas.

I need to read up on the other banana threads, but right now I think my plan is going to be letting them get nice and ripe, and then use liquid enzymes to convert any starches left in them.
Not sure yet about boiling or using skins.
Gonna need to get my steamer finished for this one.

[firewater69]

Alright, I'm in. Just bought 4 pair of socks, 3 bars of soap, and 50 lbs of bananas. And I still got asked about the bananas.

I need to read up on the other banana threads, but right now I think my plan is going to be letting them get nice and ripe, and then use liquid enzymes to convert any starches left in them.
Not sure yet about boiling or using skins.
Gonna need to get my steamer finished for this one.

skins add more flavor from my experience, just my 2 cents. when I started making wine years ago, several recipes called for leaving the skins in. I did one without and one with skins, and the skins are in for me. my last banana brandy had good flavor but I feel I can do better. and people always give strange looks when I buy fruit in large quantities, what's up with that? LOL

[raketemensch]

Which enzymes would be best for this sort of thing?

This batch will run for 2-3 weeks, so I should have time to research them.

Wife: Oh, wow, that smells like baby food
Me: I'm sorry, I'll be done here in a little bit.
Wife: No, I *love* baby food.

I've always wondered what she does when I'm not around, this isn't helping.

[NZChris]

Which enzymes would be best for this sort of thing?

The cheapest ones are already in the skins. Just don't destroy them by going too hot.

[MichiganCornhusker]

I am leaning toward leaving skins in, too.
Probably no boil, just heating to 150F and adding the SebAmyl liquid enzyme that I use for my whiskeys.
I might do a test to see if the enzymes actually increase SG at all.
I originally thought I would steam strip this, but now I think I will hope for a fairly clear ferment and then one slow run through the pot.

[raketemensch]

We made some makgeoli a few months back, and I remembered that I had some amylase enzyme left over.

Half an hour later, I found it in a box. I put a tablespoon in while it's simmering, and the Brix level is still climbing. I haven't researched what the right amount would be, at this point I'm also playing bananagrams with the kids, but that seemed like a good start.

[raketemensch]

Well, adding the amylase the way I did it did nothing. I'll have to do more research on that, flying by the seat of my pants didn't work. Stupid pants.

Strangely, I got as high as 8.5 brix while cooking, but by the time I shut it down and started pressing, I was back down to 5 somehow. Maybe from getting it too hot? Disappointing, but better than I had set out expecting. I managed to cut the sugar required from 12.5 pounds down to 8.

There are lots of lessons that you learn along the way, in this case that lesson was that if one of the gas burners brings the mash to over 140, move it to a smaller burner, moron. <sigh> I didn't think of that until I woke up this morning.

I pitched the WLP300 at ~80 degrees, it's in the basement now. I just bottled up the last batch, with a teaspoon of brown sugar in each bottle. That one was pretty tasty, but the banana flavor in this new mash (with the peels) is soooooo much stronger. I can't wait to see how it finishes out.

I drained it all in a large colander that hooked over the top of the 5-gallon bucket. I managed to find a small stockpot that fits almost perfectly into the colander, and used that as a press to get the rest of the water out. I hung onto the squeezings, they're in the basement freezer now. I'm considering putting them in a strainer bag and hanging them in the bucket later, or possibly even hanging the bag in my 20-gallon UJSSM. We'll see...

[MichiganCornhusker]

...bananas, browned in the sun

We don't see much sun this time of year in Michigan, but we got it today.

[raketemensch]

Dang, MCH, I thought I'd bought a lot of bananas... How many gallons are you doing?

For what it's worth, it's actually 66 here, and the average for today is 33. Crazy.

I'd be tempted to just lay down next to them.

I had a sip of the ferment this morning (thank God for spigots), and it's far better tasting that the "no peels in a blender" method. Very, very tasty.

[MichiganCornhusker]

... it's far better tasting that the "no peels in a blender" method. Very, very tasty.

I've been a little back and forth on the peels, but I'm gonna go with you.
I will use the peels, chopped up banana pieces, but not put through a blender.
The sun sure makes these things go brown faster. Just a couple hours and the first half I bought are all ready for banana bread.

[MichiganCornhusker]

So I got to thinking....
I am low on liquid enzymes. And, I am hellbent on converting any remaining starches in the naners, even after they start to rot in their skins.
Would it be crazy to use some malted barley?

I got about 40# of bananas, but that includes their skins. Suppose I figure out a skin to flesh ratio for a given banana, and then figure that they are maybe 25% as provident as corn or barley, and then hit it with about 25% of that with malted barley.

Out of 40# bananas, say, maybe there is 25#-30# unpeeled. Of that, maybe 6#-8# fermentable stuff. We're just talking a couple pounds of malted barley do deal with that.
I'm not really after the Holy Grail of banana shine, just something interesting. Maybe even add a little cherry smoked malt. Sort of a smokey banana whiskey? Hmmm...

Pretty hard to go off-topic when it includes madness in the title...

[firewater69]

me and my brewing buddy did the same thing with some pears, made a nice split brandy. I've been thinking about that as well.

[raketemensch]

What's interesting with browning bananas is watching the peels get thinner and thinner as the sugars form. Barley would make for an interesting flavor, I can't wait to see how yours comes out. I may get there eventually, but I think my next batch will be using enzymes.

[aceswired]

Replying mainly so I don't lose track of this thread. Looking forward to results. It's something I'd like to try down the road.

[S-Cackalacky]

Why not just let the natural enzymes present in the peels do their thing. Laying them in the sun, or otherwise heating them up, is to promote the natural enzymatic process. What kind of OG are you getting without adding malt grain or liquid enzymes?

I've seen bananas go almost completely liquid from over ripening. The peels looked like deflated balloons. I think I would like to experiment a bit with bananas - it's a fascinating fruit.

[raketemensch]

Why not just let the natural enzymes present in the peels do their thing. Laying them in the sun, or otherwise heating them up, is to promote the natural enzymatic process. What kind of OG are you getting without adding malt grain or liquid enzymes?

I've seen bananas go almost completely liquid from over ripening. The peels looked like deflated balloons. I think I would like to experiment a bit with bananas - it's a fascinating fruit.

Totally agree. The question is how far you can let them go before they go "bad." I'm already letting them brown far more than I would if I were eating them, I think there's just a mindset change going from "bananas I would eat" to "bananas ready for fermenting."

It's also a wicked-cheap experiment. I've been letting bananas go bad all my life, I just have to adjust to having a valid reason for it...

[MichiganCornhusker]

I did a quick test with a banana today. I sliced up a brown speckeled one, added 2 cups of water and heated to 150F with skin and all.
If my banana math is correct, that works out to about 3 lbs/gallon.
After about an hour I checked SG and got a reading of 1.020.
Iodine test did not indicate any starches present, but I went ahead and added some liquid enzyme for another hour just to see.
There was no additional change, still 1.020.

I thought bananas would make a big pulpy mess, but straining was super easy through a t-shirt.
I'm going to let these ripen some more and then do another test to see if I get any change in SG as they get really blackend up.

I've got 60 lbs of naners, so it looks like if I mash them with 5-6 gallons of water, I should be able to get close to 1.060 OG with no additional enzymes or malts.

[raketemensch]

With this talk of seeing how far we can go with the browning, I've pulled a banana from the fruit bowl (which my wife and kids weren't happy about, you'd think it was made of gold or something) and am using it for a test.

I want to push it to see how thin the peel can get, how high the brix can go, and whether or not I can get to the point where I can just cut off one end and squeeze it out like toothpaste...

[MichiganCornhusker]

Well, it is time. Got a couple of leakers, so I've harvested the bananas and cut 'em up.
Going for a banana bread whiskey, 60# bananas, 10# Maris Otter Malt, 4# Biscuit Malt, 1# home roasted wheat malt.

[firewater69]

Well, it is time. Got a couple of leakers, so I've harvested the bananas and cut 'em up.
Going for a banana bread whiskey, 60# bananas, 10# Maris Otter Malt, 4# Biscuit Malt, 1# home roasted wheat malt.

banana 2.JPG

banana 1.JPG

sounds nice, are you gonna do a slow single run or strip it first?

[MichiganCornhusker]

sounds nice, are you gonna do a slow single run or strip it first?

Now that's a good question.
I had planned to do a single run of the bananas, but I would normally (always) do a strip/spirit run with my whiskey.
Hmmm, perhaps I haven't thought this through.

Part of my situation is that I was going for a 1.060 OG for the bananas, without sugar.
That is proving to be difficult. I am mixing about 10 lbs bananas to a gallon of water and getting 1.050.
Not bad, but it is a gelatinous mess, thick and gooey, worse than a barley slime.
I'm hoping several gallons of a whiskey mash would help thin it out.

I'll probably do a slow one-run, cherry pick a few jars to make up a couple bottles, then do a spirit run and compare.

[firewater69]

as I mentioned before a friend and I did a split brandy with pears and 2 row, it came out really nice, when I do another I will probably do separate runs and blend. we ran it together, it was kinda crazy the first flavor to come across was the pear, then the barley, this was the first time I have done this and I figured it would come off kinda blended. good luck whatever you decide to do!

[raketemensch]

For some reason I feel like oats would be really good with bananas, but that seems like adding one difficult fermentation to another. I bet the barley worked well with them.

My ferment is still going, slowly. I steal half a shot glass from the spigot every few days. It tastes really good sweet.

Part of me wants to take this thick mess and load it into a thumper during a regular run.