My new boiler. Time to modify.

[yakattack]

I've dropped a few hints in the direction that my builds have been going. I'll be purchasing my parts for a flute build in a few days so I figured it is time to start working on the boiler.

I came across the little beauty in the scrap yard that I picked up my 4 inch copper pipe. After talking to the yard owner he was able to track down where it came from.

This came out of the heinze factory when it closed down. All stainless steel construction. Double walled. Has a built in drain that goes through the double wall.

Hindged lid. With a 4 inch opening that will get a 4 inch furrel.

Capacity is around 22 gallons.

I need to figure out how I am going heat this beautiful new piece of equipment.

So far my two options are steam injection.
Pros.. I can run on the grain. No more squeezing. I can do a 35 gallon batch in one run ( clear beer in steam boiler. Dirty in the steamer. 4 inch flute on the double boiler.

I can either run the steamer in through the first plate section (as I am going modular) or I can create a dedicated line with a few unions in to the lid or through both side walls.

Option two is to use an immersion element in the double wall area. Due to the slope of the inner bottom ( for draining purposes ) I should be able to fit a 5500w calico element in.

Pros. Still able to run dirty as element is in double wall.
Easy to set up.
Could be used as the mash tun as well (batch cook would be staggered ferments for bigger runs but easy to do. )

Fast heat up times.
Cons. It will need some modifications. There is some piping in the bottom that could be utilized.

I don't know what medium to put in the double wall.
It is sealed so I know I would need to change that.
If I run water I will have to have a vent pipe in which case I will use a 1 inch pipe and put a cold finger or other condenser on it to keep it a closed loop system that is open to the at atmosphere.

Unless I can keep it a closed system, but I thought that would be a pressure bomb. If I'm wrong then that would be easier.

Anyways I've got to get my brandy spirit run going.
What are your thoughts guys and gals.

[bitter]

Really nice Yak!!!!

Both sounds like good options what suits what you want to make the best?

B

[bearriver]

I would go with Bain Marie instead of steam injection. You got the double walls, use em.


Nice tank you got yourself there. Looks like a straightforward project to me.

[yakattack]

Bitter, thanks mate .

Bear river - I have been leaning that way as I can use it for beer as well. Just means smaller runs. Which is ok seeing as they would still be bigger than my average run.

Any tips or experience in adapting it? Cause I'm still unsure how to do so safely and economically.

Yak

[moosemilk]

yak, that thing isn't any good for you, and you should send it to me immediately so i can properly use . . . errrr dispose of it so it gets recycled properly lol.

Nice find! Can't wait to see what you do with her!

[Swedish Pride]

Nice find lad, I too would go with the banmarie option if you can fit the element. This is way out of my knowledge area, I'll watch this one from the sidelines

[shadylane]

Nice find Yak. I'm working on something similar
Some of the options I've looked at for heat transfer fluid are Glycerin, Propylene Glycol or Vegetable oil
The vegetable oil is the cheapest.

[yakattack]

Nice find Yak. I'm working on something similar
Some of the options I've looked at for heat transfer fluid are Glycerin, Propylene Glycol or Vegetable oil
The vegetable oil is the cheapest.

Won't the vegetable oil smoke?potentially catch on fire?
What would be wrong with water?I was thinking of having just a simple vertical pipe coming out and up from the bottom as a vent as well as a fill port. And when running stick a small condenser in it to keep the room from steaming up. There should be no pressure build up if I'm not mistaken.

What are your thoughts shady. You know more about his than me lol. Yak

[FreeMountainHermit]

Go with a steam fired bain marie kettle. PM Brutal or jedneck for knowledgeable help.

[Oldvine Zin]

Nice find Yak

[sungazer]

Guys I don't think the bain marie idea would induct enough heat into the wash. If you really had to use water Steam will get hotter as you can pressurize it but that is a whole lot of equipment and difficulty. If it has a double wall on the bottom I would be thinking of getting rid of that and then getting someone to add a copper bottom to the pot. Not sure if the can retrospectively do this? It was obviously used to put hot liquids in and the double wall was probably for safety to people from burns and added insulation. I am sure you will find a way to make it work for you.

[pythonshine]

awesome find yak. what yard are you going to if you don't mind sharing?

[hawgwrench]

Wow what a score ! All I ever find is beat up cracked up scrap....

[still_stirrin]

...The vegetable oil is the cheapest.

Won't the vegetable oil smoke?potentially catch on fire?

There's a shit pot full of fast food resturants that use it for french fries. I think the veggie oil would be fine. No potato chunks to filter out either.

And...you could use it as a kettle to boil your (beer) wort too.

Yak, looking at the vessel, I say that the jacket was steam fired (in a commercial business) with the inner vessel holding the slurry (ketchup???) for cooking and stock reduction. Is there a steam valve for inlet and outlet plus a condensate drain on the bottom?

The inner pot was atmospheric so the top didn't need a pressure seal. The 4" was just used to vent the evaporating vinegar (whew, can you imaging the "eye burning" smell?).
ss

[yakattack]

Thee is some drain and piping underneath. As the pic shows. Anyone here with experience with this type of system?

I can see using oil but would I then need a thermostatic control? Set max temp for the oil? How hot will say a 4500watt 220v element make the oil?

I want speed and simplicity. I doubt very much that the run costs between the two systems would be very much so that's not such a worry.

Yak

[shadylane]

Here's the smoke point of a couple common cooking oils.
I'm guessing the heater would need a controller to keep from exceeding this temps.
Also the overall efficiency would be lower than having the element directly in the mash.

[yakattack]

Here's the smoke point of a couple common cooking oils.
I'm guessing the heater would need a controller to keep from exceeding this temps.
Also the overall efficiency would be lower than having the element directly in the mash.

That's shady. I'm not worried about efficiency since I can run dirty. So the time not set squeezing grains is spent on heat up. I'm ok with that.

[yakattack]

Ok. So I've settle on either steam fired in the double wall or using the double wall as an oil or water bath.


Anyone with any experience or knowledge of steam fired double wall boilers? As I don't know much about them safety is my main concern here.

Same goes for using oil or water with an element.
With water my main concern would be steam (I won't pressurize it for safety reasons. )

With oil I'd be more concerned with flash fire or smoking of the oil.

I am really hoping to draw upon others experience here
As I want to get this up and running soon.

Yak

[shadylane]

If you tried to use water in an open system, It would boil away.
Running it as a closed system would build up steam pressure.
That's good for transferring heat, but bad from a safety point.
Using oil will let the temp get hotter and transfer more of the heat from the element to the inside.
But, hot oil has it's own problems and hazards.

[jedneck]

Just a thought. Could the wobble weight valve from a pressure cooker/canner be used to control the pressure in the steam jacket? Maybe that and a monometer/blowoff.
If you run outta ideas you could donate it to a poor redneck(me).

[shadylane]

Closed system with the a controller heating the water to above 212
And a PRV "pressure relief valve" to keep it from going booom

[yakattack]

I don't have access to paint but I was thinking a semi closed system like a boka. Having a pipe come up from the bottom with a reflux condenser. Open to atmosphere,but won't lose any... but a regulated closed system seems posible. It has the piping underneath. Any thoughts on that?

[shadylane]

Here's an idea that uses a separate boiler to supply steam at low pressure.
The idea is, steam will heat the baine marie, condense and drain out.
It's a total lose system and doesn't build any pressure.

[Brutal]

Shady had a very interesting thread recently. Looks like you both got lucky with jacketed boilers recently! Congrats!

Here's a question: do you think the inside of the jacket on yours is clean enough, or could be clean enough? There is a fella on another forum who made one that runs water in the jacket, and the outlet from the jacket goes into the liquid in the boiler. So during most of the run it's not adding anything, but after the temps get higher in the mash it starts to directly inject some steam.

[shadylane]

I don't have access to paint but I was thinking a semi closed system like a boka. Having a pipe come up from the bottom with a reflux condenser. Open to atmosphere,but won't lose any... but a regulated closed system seems posible. It has the piping underneath. Any thoughts on that?

I'm thinking the returning reflux would cool the water, you need to boil..
If your taking energy out of the system with the reflux condenser cooling water
The efficiency would go down.
Posting with Brutal

[shadylane]

Here's a question: do you think the inside of the jacket on yours is clean enough, or could be clean enough? There is a fella on another forum who made one that runs water in the jacket, and the outlet from the jacket goes into the liquid in the boiler. So during most of the run it's not adding anything, but after the temps get higher in the mash it starts to directly inject some steam.

That's a possibility.
A hybrid baine marie/direct steam injection.

[yakattack]

Brutal- I wouldn't even begin to honestly answer that. I don't know if it held oil or steam but the very bottom plate I don't think is stainless.

I could however cut it off. Give it a proper sanatization and then weld on ( sliver solder. Braze. Or rig weld, either a thin sheet of copper or stainless steel and make that modification. Direct steam injection zero pressure and no loss in efficiency. That's £&¥$€♤ brilliant.

Shady- it would have to be run on the cusp hell could even make it a packed column so that for all intensive purposes only the top will see any cooling. Return line back to boiler. Run just like a boka too. Cooling water just enough to knock it down. But yes I see your point and do agree that it is not the ideal or most efficient possibility.

You said your running oil in yours right?

[shadylane]

I haven't run it as a boiler yet.
It's being used as a temp controlled fermenter right now.
I did experiment using both water and oil as the heat transfer fluid for boiling a wash.
Long story short, using hot water was a failure.

On a side note.
A Baine Marie boiler and direct steam injection have their pro's and con's.
Their used for basically the same thing. Both are used to get the alcohol out of a goopy ferment without scorching it.
The Baine Marie is the cat's meow for heating, but needs a boiler to supply steam at pressure.
Direct steam injection's only down fall is diluting the mash with condensed steam.

[yakattack]

Ok so if I understand correctly. Direct steam injection loss of efficiency. Some gained back through the double wall system. It will be running a flute so should negate that as an issue only thing is run will take a little longer.

Am I understand correctly?

[yakattack]

So as it stands now I am going to follow brutal suggestion.

Brutal can you post a link or pm it to me for that boiler?

Now I just need to figure out how to seal the lid.
It's big. And had no clasp system yet so I will have to design and build one.

Anyone with any suggestions as to an effective way to seal the lid to the pot I'm all ears. I'd rather not weld it in place at this time if I can avoid it.

Yak