intentionally infecting a ferment

[masonsjax]

Not all infections will form a pellicle and some bacterias take a really long time to produce acid. You might not see signs, but there's probably something going on, perhaps very slowly.

[DAD300]

I've done it with a lacto capsule from the vitamin store...think probiotics... I also had it happen spontaneously from leaving a ferment sit with a paper towel over it.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Would it be better to throw some infected mash in at the beginning of the ferment, or add it at the end of an otherwise healthy ferment?
Because my bucket naturally attracted the lacto, I'm thinking I might pitch some US-05, and then just let it ferment open in the same space, expecting the lacto to happen when it will.

I'm traveling tomorrow and don't have time to do the Smoked Corn Cob recipe, so I'm going with a 10# corn, 10# rye, 10# rye malt, and 10# malted barley.

[DAD300]

People do it both ways...to me it makes sense to infect after the ferment to avoid an infection hurting/eating you yeast!

Some rum guys make a straight ferment and then ad their infection, "dunder" to the boiler charge just before firing it up.

[Odin]

Some rum guys make a straight ferment and then ad their infection, "dunder" to the boiler charge just before firing it up.

That's what I do. I add dunder just prior to the finishing run.

That way I get the complexity of bacterial infection, without putting my ferments in harms way.

Regards, Odin.

[jedneck]

that looks awesome! how's it taste?

Yikes! Smells like sour funk. Not gonna taste it.

Had a visitor while I was at work. On his travels MCH dropped a bucket of Michigan corn funk off. Popped the lid and was greeted to the most pleasant sour corn goodness known to man. Haven't tasted it yet but I see no reason to not use it. Now I'm just waiting on my corn to finish malting. Planning on using a 40%corn,30% malted corn and 30% rye.
It will be a week or two till I get to use it. All my fermenters are full.

[firewater69]

keep us posted Jed, very curious to see how it goes.

[MichiganCornhusker]

So the funk bucket.
Before heading out to deliver the bucket of funk to Jed, I made up a batch of whiskey and split it in half.

I pitched half with US-05, and the other half I divided into 4 buckets, threw a handful of raw rye into each bucket, and left them open for 5 days.
In 3 of the buckets I had what looked like bubble scum on top of the wort, signs of bubbling, but nothing active. The fourth bucket was just flat wort.

Yesterday I dumped in about a pint of the funk that I kept for myself into that fourth bucket and this morning it is actively fermenting, bubbling away nicely, pH about 4.0.
So, I've added the funk to the other three buckets and will see where this leads.

[firewater69]

attaboy!

[jedneck]

So the funk bucket.
Before heading out to deliver the bucket of funk to Jed, I made up a batch of whiskey and split it in half.

I pitched half with US-05, and the other half I divided into 4 buckets, threw a handful of raw rye into each bucket, and left them open for 5 days.
In 3 of the buckets I had what looked like bubble scum on top of the wort, signs of bubbling, but nothing active. The fourth bucket was just flat wort.

Yesterday I dumped in about a pint of the funk that I kept for myself into that fourth bucket and this morning it is actively fermenting, bubbling away nicely, pH about 4.0.
So, I've added the funk to the other three buckets and will see where this leads.

There is hope for you.
My bucket is sitting in the basement. Not sure if I should dump it into my carn malt and rye that I infected with sour cream or wait and start a new ferment. Damn it the choices.

[MichiganCornhusker]

All 4 open buckets bubbling away. Smells good, too. I have a feeling you gonna like this stuff, Jed.
It will be interesting to see if the lacto drops pH too much, or if the yeast doesn't finish dry.
No idea how wild Michigan yeast perform yet.

[jedneck]

I know the bucket you gave me smells great. Long as it gets close to 1.0 I'll be happy. I have only ever used bakers yeast other than one wild ferment.
What temp is yours fermenting at? I also think I'll do a 1gallon booner's mash to feed the bucket to keep is alive.

[MichiganCornhusker]

The funk makes a great sourdough starter!

The bucket are still actively fermenting, but show signs of lacto.
My closed barrel of US-05 smells just like beer. The open buckets smell like very sour corn beer. Strong difference as they ferment, looking forward to how the whiskeys taste.

[jedneck]

Dadburnit I need to get a fermenter empty. I have the goods to go in it just gotta make time to empty one. What temp are you fermenting at? I know with my last wild yeast I fermented it hot and the yeasties shit musty hay in the likker.

[MichiganCornhusker]

I'm fermenting in the mid 60'sF. Might be a little cool, but it looks like a dead heat right now between the lacto and the yeasties.
I prefer doing my stillin' in the fall-spring zone. Cooler temps, no bugs, better ferments.

[jedneck]

Sounds good. I'm fermenting in the basement and its in the low 60's rite now with out the stove going. If it takes a month to go dry I don't care I gods time.

[jedneck]

Here is what my bucket of Michigan corn funk looks like. Has some bubble activity and a lovely sour corn smell. Gonna be at least this weekend till I get to mash with it, if not next.

[MichiganCornhusker]

My sealed barrel finished at FG 1.000 and smells great.

Open buckets are at 1.001, and they are starting to develop a sort of chemical smell.
Remember that ridiculous package you could buy as a kid that came with a plastic straw and a tube of some toxic loose putty that you could squeeze out onto the straw and supposedly blow a big balloon or bubble? Smells kinda like that paste.
Not acetone, but in that neighborhood. Maybe just a transitional smell. I'm thinking about stripping it now as-is. What do you think, run it, or wait and ride it out? pH is still around 4.

[jedneck]

1.001 that's good news. The smell not sure about. I've had the same smell before and didn't seem to carry over pasts the fores/heads. Could maybe strip half and let half set. Or strip all now and I'll let mine sit if it gets that smell. Hell my mashes been sitting for at least a month till I have time to run them.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Yeah, you're right, worst case prolly just means a little more heads if anything. I think I might just let it go.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Sorry, meant SG 1.010 in buckets, that's why I'm gonna let it roll.

[jedneck]

That still ain't bad. I'd do.the same.

[firewater69]

I had a ferment with a similar smell once, turned out to be pretty good stuff.

IMG_20160308_204924.jpg

[MichiganCornhusker]

FG 1.008, fermentation stalled.
Time to run it.

[firewater69]

did you have any shells in that ferment?

[MichiganCornhusker]

did you have any shells in that ferment?

No shells, but pH still around 4.0

[firewater69]

can't wait to hear how it turns out!

[jedneck]

Me three

[MichiganCornhusker]

It is done.

Edit: I just looked back and I don't think I gave the whiskey recipe. It was 10# raw corn, 10# raw rye, 10# rye malt, 10# barley malt. Used liquid enzymes and mashed with the malts.

I ran the funk batch through my fancy new 2-keg steam stripper by charging the boiler with clear, racked ferment, and filling the thump with the sloppy mess left behind.
After stripping I ran it back through the same setup, charging the boiler with the low wines and the thumper with just enough water to cover the pipe.
After airing and cuts I ended up with 3 quarts of whiskey.

For the controlled batch I strained everything through the geofabric that GAFlatwoods was so kind to send me. I poured everything into the fabric, covered the trash can, and let it go overnight.
Next morning everything had strained through and was very clear. I then stripped this and did a spirit run, both with my old faithful copper pot still.
After airing and cuts I ended up with 2 quarts of whiskey.

My plan now is to keep one quart of each white, and oak the rest.

While my oak it toasting in the oven, I'm doing a little side by side drinkin.
The controlled batch is very rye forward, bright, spicy, rye grain notes. Strikes me as very clear flavors, mostly rye, then some graininess, and a little corn at the finish.
The funk batch is much more balanced. The rye is there, but it's shoulder to shoulder with the corn. The corn doesn't taste super sweet, but it is a nice balance with the rye that is missing in the other run. Just seems more substantial.

Bottom line is that my very early impressions are that the funk batch is going to become more interesting, more balanced, especially with some oaking, while the controlled batch will end up more of a one-trick rye pony.
Don't get me wrong, I like one-trick ponys, but I bet over time I go for the funk bottle more often.

On a side note, the sourdough starter that I developed with the funk bucket is still going strong. I had hoped for some more flavor in the bread from it, but it is relatively mild, though it is a good strong starter. Tonight I put a few tablespoons of raw ground corn malt into the biga to see how that affects that loaf tomorrow.

Jed, I'll get you a couple samples. I would really value your impressions, and I'd like to thank you for inspiring this particular journey!

[jedneck]

That is the second best news I heard today. Can't say first best due to rule 4.
My bucket is still sitting in the unheated basement just sitting there. Every now and then I hear a very feint whispering coming from the basement saying "use me now damn it". I am gonna try to get goods to ferment tommarrow. I am thinking about using it to start a uj ferment up

Hey, jed, I'm sort of afraid I already know what you might say, but do you think I should use this somehow?


If this sounds too reckless, please pull a madman back from the edge....

Went from not sure if you should use it to eating and drinking it. I'd say ya done good friend.