need a math check here...

[rgreen2002]

Hi all.. getting ready to start my first AG and I was hoping you guys could check my math. I was planning on using Jimbo's wheated bourbon recipe as a start but I wanted to use malted rye instead of wheat(because I already have it... ).

My first math involved the yeast starter. I have 1 vial of the White Labs WLP070 and I am planning a starter to pitch with this recipe as well as have extra to jar for later uses. My plan for the starter is100mg DME for 1L water and a 1.040 OG. With a 1 gallon starter this is about 380g DME (4/5 of lb). I would use about 1/3 for pitch over the 10 gallon wort and the rest place in qt jars in the fridge for keeping.

For the grain bill i would stick mostly true to Jimbo's plan. 22 lb corn, use 6 lb of 2 row and 3 lb rye. The 2 row has a litner of 140 and the rye 105. Total grain 22+6+3 = 31lb

So the 2 row is 140x6=840, the rye 105x3=315 for a total of 1115/31 lb = 37.

I will add water at the end to top off to OG around 1.060

Of course this calculation being what it is I do have enzymes (SEBstar HTL and SEBamyl GL) that I may add in sparing quantities just to be sure(because its my first and because i'm somewhat scared i'll F it up). Its my backup plan.

Math seem alright to you guys?

[still_stirrin]

Can you grind the cracked corn finer? That'll help.

Also, if you cook the corn (boil it in water) for an hour, it'll gelatinize the starches so your enzymes will convert it to fermentable sugars. Then, you may even use a little of the high temp enzymes to start the sugar reduction. The gelatinized corn will be quite sticky and pasty and the high temp enzymes will help liquify the goop.

When you add the low temp enzymes, let it cool down to 145-150*F and add your malt and the rye. Hold the temps as best you can and check the conversion in half hour intervals. Some leave the mash set (insulated, of course) overnight, ensuring conversion for the best results.

As far as your numbers, they look fine to me. I believe that your recipe is balanced as far as diastatic power, so it should convert for you. It may take a while with the ratio of malt to unmalted grains, but it should work. Manage pH and temps and you'll be fine.

You just gotta' do it....everyone has a "first time". You just gotta' "jump in".
ss

[Jimbo]

looks fine. my rule on starter with DME is 1/4 lb to 1/4 gallon. Gives a quart of 1.045 starter. Make only as much as you need, and be very careful on santizing everything first. I use a stir plate and after 24 hours its geeked up and ready to dump in the mash but thats optional as long as you swirl it around several times. follow the recipe to gelatinize the corn effectively or your efficiency will go to hell. Smaller crack like corn meal is best or flaked corn. Cracked corn is a pain in the ass and really need to bump the corn bill 50%. I dont like to let mash sit overnight before pitching, perfect bacteria temperature for too long. Make a simple wort chiller out of a spool of copper water line.

[Kegg_jam]

Jimbo, since you mentioned a stir plate. Do you put an air lock on it or just put some tin foil over it? (the starter not the stir plate)

[still_stirrin]

Jimbo, since you mentioned a stir plate. Do you put an air lock on it or just put some tin foil over it? (the starter not the stir plate)

Maybe one of these.....???

stir plate

In an Erlenmeyer flask maybe??? Just guessing.
ss

[rgreen2002]

Can you grind the cracked corn finer? That'll help.

Also, if you cook the corn (boil it in water) for an hour, it'll gelatinize the starches so your enzymes will convert it to fermentable sugars. Then, you may even use a little of the high temp enzymes to start the sugar reduction. The gelatinized corn will be quite sticky and pasty and the high temp enzymes will help liquify the goop.

When you add the low temp enzymes, let it cool down to 145-150*F and add your malt and the rye. Hold the temps as best you can and check the conversion in half hour intervals. Some leave the mash set (insulated, of course) overnight, ensuring conversion for the best results.

As far as your numbers, they look fine to me. I believe that your recipe is balanced as far as diastatic power, so it should convert for you. It may take a while with the ratio of malt to unmalted grains, but it should work. Manage pH and temps and you'll be fine.

You just gotta' do it....everyone has a "first time". You just gotta' "jump in".
ss

SS...thanks for the info...I think you are sensing my "cool" feet. You are correct and jumping in is the only way.

I did plan on cooking the corn: if i'm correct - 60 to 90 minutes is the most common answer I have seen here. I thought about a presoak too since I don't have a way to grind the corn (yet!) but I'm undecided right now. Follow this by alpha and stirring. Cool to 145-150 and add malt/rye with possibly the glucoamylase and probably an overnight wrapped rest (or a trip to the depot for some copper). Then check temps, pitch, etc..

Thanks for checking the DP calc too...first time and i really just wanted to be sure I understand the idea.

looks fine. my rule on starter with DME is 1/4 lb to 1/4 gallon. Gives a quart of 1.045 starter. Make only as much as you need, and be very careful on santizing everything first. I use a stir plate and after 24 hours its geeked up and ready to dump in the mash but thats optional as long as you swirl it around several times. follow the recipe to gelatinize the corn effectively or your efficiency will go to hell. Smaller crack like corn meal is best or flaked corn. Cracked corn is a pain in the ass and really need to bump the corn bill 50%. I dont like to let mash sit overnight before pitching, perfect bacteria temperature for too long. Make a simple wort chiller out of a spool of copper water line.

Thanks Jimbo... looking forward to the recipe. Two quick questions for ya: your saying even with the 22 lb of cracked corn in your recipe I should consider pushing it to 33lb if I can't grind it? Also, since I don't have any backset can I use citric acid instead of lactic acid? I don't think this should cause too much of an issue...

[Jimbo]

citric acid is fine. My recipe calls out boiling water and soaking the corn wrapped for 3 hours. Stirring occasionally. But if you want to stir over fire and 'cook' it that way, thats fine too, just a pain in the ass, dont scorch it.

Yes a stir plate like that, mine was reclaimed from teh trash at work, fancy digital thing that I gutted the busted electronics out of and put a spare ebay $5 SCR I had lying around on the motor for speed control. I use a large 2L erlenmyer flask, this one with a coffee filter rubber banded over the top. http://www.ebay.com/itm/2000ml-2L-Narro ... 1958419258" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[rgreen2002]

citric acid is fine. My recipe calls out boiling water and soaking the corn wrapped for 3 hours. Stirring occasionally. But if you want to stir over fire and 'cook' it that way, thats fine too, just a pain in the ass, dont scorch it.

I do like the wrap idea.... the scorch would be a true PITA! I have some leftover relflectix that should do the job.

I bought a corona mill and it should be here tomorrow. A few quick mods and it will be in business. I have the TSC cracked corn and I think I can break it up a little further as well.

I kinda like this guys idea...simple, easy and effective.



I also saw some universal inserts for the corona mill to grind dry grain into flour. Anyone with experience in these?

Corona stone mill

corona_stones.jpg (18.87 KiB) Viewed 3349 times

http://retsel.com/store/product_info.ph ... cts_id/104" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

or

http://www.nazko.com/corona_stone_kit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Jimbo]

The hot soak method works surprisingly well to gelatinize the corn. Smaller the better. Stir often or youll have a solid ass brick in the bottom. And dont short change the 3 hours, its takes a good bit of time in the 180's (the temp youll hit putting boiling water on the corn). High temp enzymes help big time to keep things liquid and from creating morter.

[rgreen2002]

... Stir often or youll have a solid ass brick in the bottom.

And who doesn't want solid ass brick in their BOP!

I think I will do the boil, add corn and wrap then I will hit the enzymes for my first time doing AG (make it a little easier on myself).

Make the starter early in the am (finished making my stir plate from an old HDD last PM), then start the AG... make a wort chiller later in the day. Maybe by Sunday night all in place.

Gonna get this going over the weekend...god willing and I will keep you all posted.

[rgreen2002]

Well... as luck would have it life got in the way this weekend. Unexpected guests

The good news.... one of them was my Brother-in-law the electrician. Soooo... we put in a double pole 30 amp fuse in the box and BAM - got me a new 240 v outlet in the workplace. That allowed me to put together my controller from parts I have had waiting in the wings for months!

Nice.

She isn't fancy but she has everything I will need.

I also put this together today:

Not too shabby...

Went quite easy and is just like the vid in my post above. I'll be able to grind up that corn soon!

Didn't mean to hijack my own post but I didn't want to come back empty handed with no progress on my AG. Will have to keep the thread going as I can get to the mash.

[hellbilly007]

Is that a Vaultz box that you used for your controller? Looks nice.

I believe I'm going to redo my Corona in the same fashion as yours. The bucket I used with mine is old and chips/breaks easily.

Lookin forward to your results using rye.

[rgreen2002]

Is that a Vaultz box that you used for your controller? Looks nice.

I believe I'm going to redo my Corona in the same fashion as yours. The bucket I used with mine is old and chips/breaks easily.

Lookin forward to your results using rye.

Basically, yes. It's a cheap version I picked up at Harbor Freight one day when It was on sale. http://www.harborfreight.com/11-12-x-7- ... 69316.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
I think it was like $8 on sale... All the components fit in there perfect and I wired the fan separately to a 12v dc plug because it was just easier.

Looks like this only smaller

I left a space on the upper right corner for a switch/breaker if im so inclined and I need a few more "niceties" to make it look better but the idea is there...and it works great...!!

For the mill... I can say the video in my post above was spot on. It literally took me about 20 minutes to put it together and I will probably add a few minor mods as well to stabilize mine but it seems to be working great. Ran some corn through quick and it did a fine job. Im still kind of interested in those mill disks too....just wondering if anyone has tried them.

[raketemensch]

In an Erlenmeyer flask maybe??? Just guessing.
ss

My high school chemistry teacher taught us that it's easy to tell them apart, because Florence has the curves.

It was a little creepy the way he said it, so it always stuck.

He also divorced his wife and ran away with a girl I was in love with... She was 17, so the "creepy" definitely fits.

[bilgriss]

It was a little creepy .......

We had one of those in the local high school. Creeped my daughter out big time, and a couple years later he's in the papers for something similar.

[rgreen2002]

...not to get back on topic...but....

OK I put together my mill contraption like above and ran 22 lB of cracked corn through it. It did a pretty good job and I was done in about 20 minutes. With the 6-in Dia x 5-in Dia Duct Reducer in the big hopper I can get 5 lb of corn in there at a time.

Mill

Some of it is powder and some slightly smaller crack that the original. I think I will stay with the 22 lb from Jimbo's recipe. Putting together my wort chiller tonight and I will finish the switch in the controller probably tomorrow. Plan for a cook in the afternoon. WIll cook the water in my keg with the new 220V 5500W Camco and then drain it into the BOP ( I don't really want to use my boiler to mash yet as I'm a little worried about clogging up the drain and scorch, and stuff stuck to the element....etc.). This will also give me a chance to run the controller and element for a little while and see how she works out.

Stir plate

Got these little guys just waiting to go to work. Built the stir plate a week or so ago and the yeast are just over 24 hours into their business.. Cost less that $20 with some parts around the house... and some not.

[rgreen2002]

22 Lb of corn ground and made my wort chiller today. Then this...

Safe...

At the suggestion of some knowledgeable folks here I put in my kill switch. Works perfectly. Might still throw in that 240V fan I have around but its a little big...not sure it will fit and I got a little tired later in the day. As always I appreciate the help finding the switch and the wiring suggestions.

[rgreen2002]

Man...this all grain S#*T ain't easy! I can see another expense coming my way in the form of another keg (keggle) and a large bag for BIAB. I didn't have enough room in my BOP which I knew before starting and luckily have a second MOP (medium ole pot) for the overflow. I miscalculated the size of the MOP and had to move some water and grain amts around but I think it will all work out. I used the Jimbo heat and wrap corn method and didn't do too bad. The H20 with the corn started in the 170's F range and I added enzyme and let it sit overnight for good conversion. This am the temp was still about 140 so I did an iodine test on just the corn - seemed converted(yellow) and the pH tested out between 5-6 (I used strips because I didn't want to calibrate my meter that early in the am). I added my 2 row/rye and that got me down in the 130F range so I added the eznyme as well. Letting it steep for a few hours and then check temps. I couldn't get my wort chiller in there if I wanted to its so full! I also did this via BIAB with 5 gallon paint strainers. Man.... I hope they hold up.

I think if this works out as well as everyone says I will need to go the way of the keggle and maybe BIAB with a big heavy duty bag. I found a few online by searching the brewing sites so it should be easier that this double pot/bag thing I'm about to get into.

[raketemensch]

I think if this works out as well as everyone says I will need to go the way of the keggle and maybe BIAB with a big heavy duty bag. I found a few online by searching the brewing sites so it should be easier that this double pot/bag thing I'm about to get into.

I'm doing this recipe in a 16-gallon pot, and it's reeeeeally full. It's just barely BA enough.

My next run I'll see how the bazooka filter does, rather than a BIAB, but if that fails, I'll also be in the market for a BIABAB.

[rgreen2002]

rm....
let me know how the bazooka works out.... wringing 31 lb of grain without a press of some kind gets a bit tiring! It's doable..... but lets not "do" it again if it isn't necessary.

[Jimbo]

only 31 lbs? wusses. My typical batch is in a 55g PTFE barrel with 70 lbs grain. scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze

[greggn]

only 31 lbs? wusses. My typical batch is in a 55g PTFE barrel with 70 lbs grain. scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze

<Belushi ON>

"From now on your Delta Tau Chi name is 'Popeye'."

<Belushi OFF>

[rgreen2002]

only 31 lbs? wusses. My typical batch is in a 55g PTFE barrel with 70 lbs grain. scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze scoop squeeze

LOL... ...and this is why you have that fancy "Master Distiller" title after you name and I'm just "Site Donor"

Appreciate all the help and input Jimbo... I don't think I did half bad for my first time... http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p7415679