Need A Rum Experts Advice

[Rain Distillate]

Made My first batch up rum to get the rum train rolling. I used 8LBS of dark brown sugar in each 6.5 gallon fermenter. distillers yeast, fermax, as well as some citric acid. Got about a 7% wash out of it. collected about 3 quarts of hearts and 2 GALLONS of tails.

Is it typical to get more tails out of rum or is that due to my lower starting ABV?

I know rum isn't really drinkable for the first 3-6 months at least but the old lady claims it smells funny. almost like alcoholic vinegar she says. 145 proof vinegar? It does smell a lot different from my corn meal and corn flake likkor I've made but I was just associating the different smell with it being a different likkor.

I let it air for about 30 hrs with a coffee filter on top and now its capped up in mason jars.

I saved 2 gallons of dunder for the boiler for my next rum run. If it starts to mold (i know its supposed to mold) can I scrape off the mold when I'm ready to use it since the bucket its in doesn't have a spigot on bottom?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Rain Distillate

[goose eye]

Ain't no 72% vinegar. You need to take it down
to the middle 60s or hi 50s to age.
this is percents not proof.

So I'm tole

[Rain Distillate]

Ain't no 72% vinegar. You need to take it down
to the middle 60s or hi 50s to age.
this is percents not proof.

So I'm tole

So that new smell we are noticing is the rum essence sorta speak?

[goose eye]

Was the jug and stopper new?
You clean your outfit with vinegar?
Could be a lot of thangs but the
ole boys ain't never smelled likker smellin
like vinegar. That is even chargin some
cider that mother had come a callin.

So I'm tole

[Rain Distillate]

Was the jug and stopper new?
You clean your outfit with vinegar?
Could be a lot of thangs but the
ole boys ain't never smelled likker smellin
like vinegar. That is even chargin some
cider that mother had come a callin.

So I'm tole

I don't think it smells like vinegar but she does. I don't use vinegar unless I've soldered something and even then I give very generous rinses with hot AND cold water. I usually do a steam clean if vinegar goes through it. Mason jars were cleaned thoroughly. I use star-san after cleaning my buckets followed by hot and cold water thorough rinses. I'm pretty sure its the rum "essence". Gonna have my buddy take a whiff/taste probably later today. Hes been drinking shine for years, maybe he'll have some insight for me.

[nerdybrewer]

While I don't consider myself an "expert" there are a few things you mention that differ from the way I do it.
From reading what actual rum experts have written here and elsewhere (even actual books!) I learned that the best rum yeast is one that is grown in a molasses environment.
This is bread or bakers yeast, it is inexpensive and can be found at the grocery store or in larger packages at the big club stores.
Using a big starter or "bomb" gives you big bump in your fermenting process, I've seen my wash start bubbling within minutes and gushing CO2 within an hour.
By gushing I mean enough pressure to blow out the airlock, putting your hand over the hole you feel a wind blowing through your fingers.
Now I use a large trash can and during the active ferment I just let it blow out through the loose fitting top.
Yeast is very important to the flavor profile of any spirit that is meant to retain any flavor from the fermented product.
My guess is that the smell and flavor you are experiencing come from two things, the harsh bite of a sugar wash and the products given off by the yeast you used.
Remember, I'm not an expert. I make rum that tastes good right off the still but I'm not an expert.
Your 7% sugar wash is ok, going higher only stresses the yeast more but that being said I like to ht 10% with mine.
I find that's a good number for rum, however whisky and fruit based ferments should not go above 6-7%.
I have used grade A fancy molasses, sugar, feed store molasses and Panela in my journey.
So far the best tasting and best producing in terms of usable alcohol has been the Panela.
It's more expensive than feed grade molasses but I get less heads and tails and more hearts.
My rum is being aged in once used Bourbon barrels, so I include some heads and tails and let the barrel and time do their magic.
My current batch is only 2 months in the barrel but I stole some the other night, added spring water to temper and an ice cube and I have to say the stuff is totally good as it is.
Another 10 months in the barrel it will be great!
I hope this helps and you are not offended by any of it, I'm sharing how I do it and a little of the history of how I got here.
I have a few techniques I have developed and tools that I use that help and I'd be glad to share at a later time if you are interested.

[shadylane]

Made My first batch up rum to get the rum train rolling. I used 8LBS of dark brown sugar in each 6.5 gallon fermenter. distillers yeast, fermax, as well as some citric acid. Got about a 7% wash out of it. collected about 3 quarts of hearts and 2 GALLONS of tails.....is it typical to get more tails out of rum or is that due to my lower starting ABV? .....

Did you do a single run or did you strip and spirit run

[Rain Distillate]

Made My first batch up rum to get the rum train rolling. I used 8LBS of dark brown sugar in each 6.5 gallon fermenter. distillers yeast, fermax, as well as some citric acid. Got about a 7% wash out of it. collected about 3 quarts of hearts and 2 GALLONS of tails.....is it typical to get more tails out of rum or is that due to my lower starting ABV? .....

Did you do a single run or did you strip and spirit run

I've only been doing single sloooow runs, usually 6-7 hour runs, Haven't done any stripping/low wines runs yet. I do keep my tails for redistillation when I run a second batch of whatever the tails is but thats it so far. I need more and larger collecting vessels so I can store tails much easier at higher abv. I notice oilyness that coats your mouth and fingers usually after collecting 3-5 qts of the hearts, Then I collect usually 100 proof tails until proof gets waaaaay down there. Guess it depends how much patience I have left by the end of the run.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Guess it depends how much patience I have left by the end of the run.

6 - 7 hrs? You heating that pot with a candle??
When I do rum I run at about 20min/quart once I clear heads.

Brown sugar doesn't really make rum, it is pretty much just white table sugar wearing a thin disguise.
Definitely try a strip/spirit run combo, I think it will clean up your spirit.

Then get you some molasses and panela and really go to town!

[nerdybrewer]

I pull 4 quarts an hour with my pot still when stripping, less on the 1.5 run, it's a basic 2" copper pipe that's 2 feet tall that reduces to half inch after a turn of about 60 degrees and the liebig is 3/4" over 1/2" for about 30 inches. The boiler is a SS keg.
A typical run of 14 gallons wash yields little heads and tails and lots of hearts, but I do include some oily tails in my keep, after aging they make the drink better.
Once you start making rum you will see a difference, sounds like you are getting a lot of heads and tails and some hearts, I believe this is typical for a sugar wash.
The ingredients you use will determine the quality of your spirit, as MCH suggested getting some molly and panela and ditching the processed sugar will give you better results, as well as using bakers yeast.
I personally like a stripping run followed by the 1.5 run, because I like a full flavored rum.

[Rain Distillate]

not a candle lol. just low and slow. I dont't like seeing my keg get red hot on bottom. I usually tend to not turn the heat up enough initially and the first hour of startup is usually slow. then i notice it heating slowly and I'll turn it up a bit. I'm still getting used to her.

i need more storage if I want to do a spirit run but for now working with what I got available. I have a gallon of unsulphured no preservative molasses I'm going to use along side some dark brown sugar and see where that takes me next. Doing some neutral right now for some Kahlua and apple pie, so rums on hold for a week or two til fermenting space clears up. apple pie and Kahlua have to sit for a while so got to get these done asap so they'll be palatable by the holidays. Gives my couple gallons of dunder time to develop a few flavors as well. I added a little shine to the dunder to keep germs out. I'll be fine to dump this into my boiler upon running? Can I scrape off the layer of mold if there is any by the time I run? Got no way to drain from the bottom its in a bucket as of right now. does it NEED to be chilled? Its in the garage average temp is between 45-65 degrees.
Thanks

[MichiganCornhusker]

I'm still getting used to her.

No harm in that. In fact there are those who say a slow prolonged warm up can enhance flavors in the final spirit.

I added a little shine to the dunder to keep germs out.

I'm no dunder expert but I think the whole point is to let the germs into the dunder. Does not need to be kept cold.

Check out Buccaneer Bob's run recipe in T&T for your molasses and brown sugar. I think you will see a big difference in flavor in your rum.

[nerdybrewer]

I'm still getting used to her.

No harm in that. In fact there are those who say a slow prolonged warm up can enhance flavors in the final spirit.

I added a little shine to the dunder to keep germs out.

I'm no dunder expert but I think the whole point is to let the germs into the dunder. Does not need to be kept cold.

Check out Buccaneer Bob's run recipe in T&T for your molasses and brown sugar. I think you will see a big difference in flavor in your rum.

The next word that is usually associated with Dunder is "pit". A dunder pit is a funky thing, and you draw out what you need for every batch.
I add mine to my ferment, never to my run - ever.
I only add as much as will not adversely effect the PH of the batch, so that's no more than about 20% by volume.
Everyone has their own way of doing things, that's what I do.

[NZChris]

I've only been doing single sloooow runs, usually 6-7 hour runs

A waste of time. You'll never get a cellar full of quality aged rum with that sort of interweb propagated foolishness. Get a big fermenter that will do at least three charges worth at a time and fill it up for strip and spirit runs.

[Rain Distillate]

I've only been doing single sloooow runs, usually 6-7 hour runs

A waste of time. You'll never get a cellar full of quality aged rum with that sort of interweb propagated foolishness. Get a big fermenter that will do at least three charges worth at a time and fill it up for strip and spirit runs.

Absolutely right. I need some clean barrels for bigger ferments. I agree!

[nerdybrewer]

I've only been doing single sloooow runs, usually 6-7 hour runs

A waste of time. You'll never get a cellar full of quality aged rum with that sort of interweb propagated foolishness. Get a big fermenter that will do at least three charges worth at a time and fill it up for strip and spirit runs.

Absolutely right. I need some clean barrels for bigger ferments. I agree!

I started out using 5 gallon buckets and cane sugar with a small amount of fancy molasses.
I've been through several iterations with my equipment and ingredients, I thought I was doing really awesome things when I was using two 18 gallon fermenters at the same time.
Now my fermenter holds 96 gallons.
I've been doing batches of about 85 gallons, sometimes I push it to 90.
Ingredients cost more but it's great to have that much to run.
Of course that's 6 or 7 runs but at the end I've got enough to fill a small 8 to 10 gallon barrel with rum.

[shadylane]

I've only been doing single sloooow runs, usually 6-7 hour runs

A waste of time. You'll never get a cellar full of quality aged rum with that sort of interweb propagated foolishness. Get a big fermenter that will do at least three charges worth at a time and fill it up for strip and spirit runs.

Absolutely right. I need some clean barrels for bigger ferments. I agree!

Here's one option
Have several fermenters that are just big enough to fill the boiler for stripping runs.
3 to 6 stripping runs will make enough low-wines to fill the boiler for a spirit run.
You don't have to go big, if you go often

[Rain Distillate]

I've only been doing single sloooow runs, usually 6-7 hour runs

A waste of time. You'll never get a cellar full of quality aged rum with that sort of interweb propagated foolishness. Get a big fermenter that will do at least three charges worth at a time and fill it up for strip and spirit runs.

Absolutely right. I need some clean barrels for bigger ferments. I agree!

Here's one option
Have several fermenters that are just big enough to fill the boiler for stripping runs.
3 to 6 stripping runs will make enough low-wines to fill the boiler for a spirit run.
You don't have to go big, if you go often

Again I need more storage for sure. Nobody has answered my mold question yet. without a spigot on bottom how do I retrieve the dunder from my bucket without stiring up the top....can i scrape off the top until i can retrofit a spigot for next time?

[NZChris]

Siphon

[MichiganCornhusker]

The cap on my dunder bucket was thick enough that I could just drag it back with a fork and scoop out the dunder from underneath. And then boil it.

It can be nasty stuff, I sure wouldn't want my siphon lips anywhere near it.

Btw, don't get lost in the whole aged dunder thing, I've made lots of rum without and I like it just fine.

[nerdybrewer]

The cap on my dunder bucket was thick enough that I could just drag it back with a fork and scoop out the dunder from underneath. And then boil it.

It can be nasty stuff, I sure wouldn't want my siphon lips anywhere near it.

Btw, don't get lost in the whole aged dunder thing, I've made lots of rum without and I like it just fine.

Very true, it's not the most important ingredient.
That being said I've been getting it with a pump and pumping it directly into my fermenter.
I understand why those who boil it do that, it can be nasty.
Keeping a lid on mine so it can't get things like bugs and slugs in there so everything growing is most likely fungal and bacterial and the types that like dunder (and I'm drinking the stuff directly, just the distillate).
I'm careful to not add more than 10 - 15% by volume to any particular ferment and I use a massive yeast bomb to get things going.

This is part of why everyone's drink is different from everyone else's - even using the same ingredients we have different methods and that produces different flavors.

[Yummyrum]

In my experience dunder will start to grow mould and shit on top if left long enough even in a bucket with a clip on lid.
I used to have several buckets of dunder n various states . Some smelt nice some were rank . I used to syphon it out ..... you get good at it ....a bit like petrol

Now days I don't use skanky Dunder . I coudn't detect any nicities from using it in fact some made the Rum discusting .
I just use fresh or a few weeks old stuff now .

And I agree with Nerdybrewer about only using 10-15% dunder

[Rain Distillate]

In my experience dunder will start to grow mould and shit on top if left long enough even in a bucket with a clip on lid.
I used to have several buckets of dunder n various states . Some smelt nice some were rank . I used to syphon it out ..... you get good at it ....a bit like petrol

Now days I don't use skanky Dunder . I coudn't detect any nicities from using it in fact some made the Rum discusting .
I just use fresh or a few weeks old stuff now .

And I agree with Nerdybrewer about only using 10-15% dunder

Do you add to boiler or to ferment? (if to ferment) how do you add to ferment without killing yeast?

[nerdybrewer]

In my experience dunder will start to grow mould and shit on top if left long enough even in a bucket with a clip on lid.
I used to have several buckets of dunder n various states . Some smelt nice some were rank . I used to syphon it out ..... you get good at it ....a bit like petrol

Now days I don't use skanky Dunder . I coudn't detect any nicities from using it in fact some made the Rum discusting .
I just use fresh or a few weeks old stuff now .

And I agree with Nerdybrewer about only using 10-15% dunder

Do you add to boiler or to ferment? (if to ferment) how do you add to ferment without killing yeast?

Since as I said I add to the ferment I'll answer you with the way I do it.
I mix up a pretty heavy wash at about 10% to 12% potential but first I put the dunder in the fermenter, in sealed containers it still does get funky, but not disgusting.
When I put the wash in the container it's hot, probably 150F so I'd call the dunder pasteurized at that point.
Once it's all mixed thoroughly and cooled to about 90F I pitch about a gallon of re-hydrated bakers yeast.
This generally takes off like crazy within minutes.

[Rain Distillate]

In my experience dunder will start to grow mould and shit on top if left long enough even in a bucket with a clip on lid.
I used to have several buckets of dunder n various states . Some smelt nice some were rank . I used to syphon it out ..... you get good at it ....a bit like petrol

Now days I don't use skanky Dunder . I coudn't detect any nicities from using it in fact some made the Rum discusting .
I just use fresh or a few weeks old stuff now .

And I agree with Nerdybrewer about only using 10-15% dunder

Do you add to boiler or to ferment? (if to ferment) how do you add to ferment without killing yeast?

Since as I said I add to the ferment I'll answer you with the way I do it.
I mix up a pretty heavy wash at about 10% to 12% potential but first I put the dunder in the fermenter, in sealed containers it still does get funky, but not disgusting.
When I put the wash in the container it's hot, probably 150F so I'd call the dunder pasteurized at that point.
Once it's all mixed thoroughly and cooled to about 90F I pitch about a gallon of re-hydrated bakers yeast.
This generally takes off like crazy within minutes.

I gotcha. Anyone live in a cold climate that found a yeast that can manage fermentation and still produce good product? Nortern North America so it gets to be relatively cold here. I was thinking about bringing my fermenters to the garage and off my kitchen table lol. (the old lady would love this she hates the smell of fermentation haha) Thoughts?

[NZChris]

I gotcha. Anyone live in a cold climate that found a yeast that can manage fermentation and still produce good product? Nortern North America so it gets to be relatively cold here. I was thinking about bringing my fermenters to the garage and off my kitchen table lol. (the old lady would love this she hates the smell of fermentation haha) Thoughts?

I reckon don't mess with what works, and high temperatures work. Wrap the fermenter in plenty of insulation and maintain tropical temperatures using a controller and some kind of element underneath. I get mine close to my desired ferment temperature before I pitch the yeast, then with plenty of insulation, not much heat is required. While the ferment is producing a lot of heat I often have to loosen the insulation to keep it from overheating itself.

Rum goes well at temperatures up to 104F, which is where I have the set point of my controller. At these temperatures the ferment should complete in three days, but I let mine rest for flavor development for at least six days after it goes dead.

For some ideas on dunder see the Bryan Davis article Hot & Dirty.
http://distilling.uberflip.com/i/622468 ... inter-16/5

[Rain Distillate]

I thought hard fast ferments cause off flavors etc? Use a yeast that likes warmer Temps? Bakers over distillers? I bought a big bag of distillers yeast and that's all I've been using.

[Oldvine Zin]

I thought hard fast ferments cause off flavors etc? Use a yeast that likes warmer Temps? Bakers over distillers? I bought a big bag of distillers yeast and that's all I've been using.

Every recipe has a need for different yeasts, Rum bakers yeast all the way, grain I like US05, fruit I use ec1118, and for sugar heads dady is just fine

OVZ

[Yummyrum]

In my experience dunder will start to grow mould and shit on top if left long enough even in a bucket with a clip on lid.
I used to have several buckets of dunder n various states . Some smelt nice some were rank . I used to syphon it out ..... you get good at it ....a bit like petrol

Now days I don't use skanky Dunder . I coudn't detect any nicities from using it in fact some made the Rum discusting .
I just use fresh or a few weeks old stuff now .

And I agree with Nerdybrewer about only using 10-15% dunder

Do you add to boiler or to ferment? (if to ferment) how do you add to ferment without killing yeast?

I tried generations a few times but gave up as I never had time after a run to get the next one going . So from then one I siphoned the Dunder from the Scank bucket and boiled it and the water and molasses in a Big old pot to sterilize it .
When cooled to about 40 deg C , I'd pour it into freshly washed fermenter/s and add fresh Bakers yeast and epsom salts ....Note I only ferment Feed grade Molasses , no sugar needed
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p7365724

Now Salty bush bill uses a fairly similar recipe but he is more organised ......he uses the old yeast in the fermenter as food for the next wash by deliberately dumping hot Dunder from the still onto the yeast bed to kill it before adding the molasses and water . Check out the pressure cleaner technique ....works a treat
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p7419932

[shadylane]

Might as well throw in my drunken 2 cents worth about homemade Rum
First you have to get it to ferment
Any sugar wash, other than fresh squeezed sugar cane, needs added nutrients.
Something like a yeast bomb, made of boiled yeast, Epson salt, B vitamins, a little nitrogen, etc.
Next, pH and temp control to make the yeast happy.
Then worry about secret ingredients and tricks to make the Rum