3 inch Flute Plan. Please check it for me.

WillieP · Post by **WillieP** » Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:58 pm

Warning: This will be a wordy post

I am in the design phase of a 3 inch (76mm) flute build. (I know it should be 4, but the 3 inch was free)

I have read all the flute build threads that I can find and of course Flute Talk, and I hope to take the best, IMO, ideas out of all the builds and combine them into a flute of my choosing.

So the research I have done advises you to think about what type of likker you want to make before building your still. Well, I’m a Bourbon guy, the Mrs. enjoys Rum and I like the idea of making neutral to be able to flavor, post distillation. That leads me to a fully modular 4-5 plate flute, with a detachable packed section above the plates. I will be able to run as a Pot, or a Plated column, or a Plated column with the packed section on top, for really clean stuff.

I’ve been ciphering on the design for a fair spell, I wanted to post it up on here as all the design ideas come from HD anyhow. I welcome input as to how I should do things differently (don’t mean I’ll do it different, but I will listen) I will start at the bottom and go up.

Boiler:
15.5 gallon (58l) SS Keg heated on LP burner
Considering flipping it upside down, adding a 3” TC flange to the ‘bottom’ (now top) and using the keg’s flange to adapt to a 1” valved drain pipe.
The other option is to start by just adding the 1” drain to the bottom and leave the top as is. If I decided later to flip it, I could cut away the 1” drain away and replace it with the 3” TC flange.
First Question: Will the gas burner cause problems with scorching if the drain pipe is installed center of the keg, and heat applied directly to it? Would I need to drain it from the side if using gas?
Input requested.
There should be at least a fill port in there somewhere.
(Boiler is the least thought out of anything.)

Column: 3 inch (76mm) type L copper
Hoping to go with fully modular.
Each section would be made with flanges (either self made or EZ-flanges) and joined with TC clamps.
Right now I have the height of each section figured to be 4 ½ inches (115mm).
I’m considering going with a single, double, and triple plate sections. That would give me the option of running anywhere from 1 to 6 plates.

I will have 1 1/2” (38mm) sight-glasses in each section for each plate. I would also like to add a second smaller sight-glass to be able to add lighting to each plate.
Is this necessary? NO
Is this cool? HELL YES

The plates would be perforated using 1/16” (.0625”) (1.59mm) holes. I haven’t worked out the exact number of holes or pattern, but would be shooting for 6-8 percent open area.
Either ¼ inch or 1/5 inch grid spacing. (6.35 to 5.08 mm)

A couple of oddities I am planning for the plates are to have a recessed cup below the plate and an adjustable downcomer height above the plate.
I would like to have a cup soldered under the plate to act as a reservoir for the output of the downcomer. My thought here is, that the first liquid reflux to fall on the plate would fill this cup and help ensure that there would be a vapor lock for the downcomer.
The top of the downcomer would be soldered at say 3/8 inch (9.5mm) above the plate and then I would have different sets of slip couplings to be able to add height to the top of the downcomer, in turn, being able to adjust the liquid depth on the plate. Say, ½, 5/8, ¾ inch.
The downcomers will be ½ inch (13mm) cut at a 45 degree angle, and the bottom section would require a J-style trap.

To hold the plates in place, I would like to try using a ‘piston ring’ theory.
I think if I cut bands of the 3 inch (76mm) to a ¼ inch (6.35mm) to form a ring that is 3 inch in diameter and ¼ inch tall, then I would be able to split the ring and remove only as much as needed to decrease the OD of the ring to the ID of the column. Then the rings would be placed inside the column (held there by just spring tension) with a plate resting on top of it. I have a couple of reasons for trying this. I think the ring will help with the seal between the plate and the ID of the column, and I like the idea of having everything totally removable.

Above the plated sections, will be 24 inches (600mm) of packed column using lava rock, at least to start out with. Removable, with TC flanges.

Dephleg
3 inch (76mm) type L copper with TC flanges
7 – ½ inch (13mm) vapor tubes 5 inches (127mm), bottoms tapered, point towards center.
Water chamber is 4 ¾ inches (120mm)
Overall length is 6 inches (152mm)
Water input/output on opposite sides, and at top and bottom.

Crossover
First we reduce from 3 inch (76mm) to 2 inch (50mm)
Then back to back 90’s. Between the 90’s I will install a temperature/CIP port, and a set of TC flanges to be able to change the angle of the PC if I would choose to.

Product Condenser
This will be 2 inch (50mm) copper as well.
Shotgun style with 5 – ½ inch (13mm), 16 inches (400mm) in length.
Plan on using baffles in the PC, they may not be unnecessary, but why not?

I will have separate water hookups for the RC and PC, with a needle valve for the RC.

I may want a free standing parrot at some point, but it’s not a priority for now.
I can collect in small jars and test with alcohol-meter. (I will anyway, to help with the cuts)

I wish I had some artistic ability, so I could attach a pretty picture to this, but that’s not one of my skills. I hope to make up for it with lots of copper porn after I start a build thread.

I really am open for input. If you see I’m planning something dumb, please speak up.
I know a bunch of the things I have planned are not necessary to make a good drop, but I’m figuring I don’t want to just copy someone else’s still.

Finally, a respectful shout out to OD, and to all those that have fine tuned the design of the hobby level flute over the years. We would not be where we are today without your efforts and dedication.
Thank you

Hope your eyes aren't bleeding from this novel.

Setsumi · Post by **Setsumi** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:14 am

I finished my flute in October. By no means experienced but.

I opted for 2mm perfs the 1.6mm drill bit is very thin. Adjustable downcommer, I do not think it is necessary. I have a shotgun pc of 470mm cooling, it is marginal 550mm would be better.

Good idea on the plate fitting with the rings.

Edit.j
I have a packed section as well, do not see that I will use it soon.

WillieP · Post by **WillieP** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:23 pm

Thanks Setsumi
Did you calculate the percentage of open area on your plates?

Agreed, totally not necessary to have adjustable downcomer height, but I figure that it won't hurt anything. I'm interested to see if you only change that one variable, can you tell the difference in the final product.

I'll look into the size of the PC. I thought a 2 inch (50mm) with 5- 1/2 inch (13mm) vapor tubes was enough cooling at 16 inches (400 mm). I can always stretch it out some.

WillieP

Post by **bronctoad** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:12 pm

I cant remember where I've seen it, (too late for my build

) you should have 4 to 5 inches at least from your liquid level to the next plate
to stop or minimize entrainment. Alas I'd already welded my sight glasses on at 4 inch before I ran into this piece of info. some of the more
experienced column guys can help with an actual distance.
bronctoad

Setsumi · Post by **Setsumi** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:20 pm

The open area on my plates is 5.6%, somewhere in the flute talk it was established tha 7 to 8% is optimal but I think olddogs original was less than 5% although that is by my calculation.

Your pc condenser will work fine as long as your input water does not heat up to much. Also remember the time that the product contact the cooling surface does play a role in efficiency, or so I believe.

Yes plates shoud be far enough appart so there is no entrainment. 4" or 100mm is the norm but some strech it further. The bath depth on the plate will play a role as well as how hard you run.

Look for a thread by flyingduchtman on variables in sieve plates. Also look at DADs comment recently in the thread plates plates plates.

WillieP · Post by **WillieP** » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:08 pm

bronctoad wrote:I cant remember where I've seen it, (too late for my build ) you should have 4 to 5 inches at least from your liquid level to the next plate
to stop or minimize entrainment.

Thanks Bronctoad for the heads up. I've read, I think in Flute talk, that the spacing should be at least equal to the diameter of your column. My column will only be 3 inch, so I was thinking that 4 1/2 between plates would be OK. I'll dig further.

That does make me think though...
If I adjust the downcomer height to say 3/4 inch, (or 1 1/4 inches for that matter) that would put the top of the liquid level on the plate that much closer to the bottom of the plate above it. Maybe some extra room in there would be a good idea, just to be able to play with. I have the 3 inch available.

WillieP.

WillieP · Post by **WillieP** » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:15 pm

Setsumi wrote:
Look for a thread by flyingduchtman on variables in sieve plates. Also look at DADs comment recently in the thread plates plates plates.

I will do just that.
I don't believe I've read a thread by flyingduchtman, I have read plates,plates,plates, but it's been a while.
Thanks for the tip Setsumi.

Cheers,
WillieP.

Setsumi · Post by **Setsumi** » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:34 pm

Flyingdutchmens thread sumarises a scientific paper on sieve plates. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37618

In short: small holes have a larger operating band in terms of vapour speed/heat, it can run slower. Bigger holes must drive faster.
Smaller % open area slower vapour speed. Larger % open area faster vapour speeds.

Downcommer hight, between 1/4" and 1" height only 10% difference with deeper bath better. (BUT watch for entrainment (my own conclusion)). Also remember the paper focused on efficiency, we want flavour to be part. Search bath depth in relation with seperation and flavour, though I doubt you can go wrong with 13 - 18mm depth.
Plates are most efficient where vapour speed is just above dumping point.

Last there is no difference in plate efficiency between 5 and 16% open area provided plates are run at efficient point, just above dumping.

Edit, can not remember if plate efficiency was defined in the thread and I did not read the paper but I would think it has to do with take off speed and purity.

WillieP · Post by **WillieP** » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:29 pm

Thanks Setsumi,
That was a cool paper that the Flayingdutchmen had posted.
It all makes sense and seems to fit together. The old boys talk about finding 'your sweetspot', I think I understand that a little better now.
There are a lot of different variables that go into building a perforated plate flute, we all know that.
My take away from that piece was that when you combine all the little differences in design to your build, it may make a small difference in efficiency. However, If you stay within the generally accepted design parameters, you will be able to build a still that will preform well and make good product. You may need to vary your heat input, (vapor speed), to be able to have the plates do their thing well.
This made me feel more comfortable with my build plan. It seems to show that you don't have to get it perfect. I was (am) designing in a lot of flexibility into the build to be able to vary thinks if needed. That may not be all that necessary.

Feeling better,
WillieP.

paddy1000111 · Post by **paddy1000111** » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:59 pm

On the point of the boiler connections. The standard SS kegs have a Sankey connector. These hook straight up to a 2" tri-clamp. On my 3" still I connected a 2" to 3" adaptor to it and did it that way. The slight restriction at the bottom makes no difference to the still itself as its the column that is doing the work not the connector at the bottom. I also welded a 1" drain on but I did it right at the bottom on the side, it leaves me with about half an inch of standing water on the bottom which is easily removed by tilting the barrel over. I got the welding finished before I drilled the hole for the drains so the inside of the barrel is smooth. I also fitted a second 2" fill port to the top, although the 2" to 3" tri clamp adaptor for the column could be easily used for filling. Personally I wouldn't put any connections on the bottom of the barrel if you are using propane. Usually the barrel, with the propane on will sit at around 100 degrees because of the liquid inside. If you have the tube for the drain right at the bottom it will continuously boil the liquid in the tube as it has a lower mass and either build up burnt stuff in the drain pipe or worst give off a funny taste. The heat won't do the seal in the valve much good either. Personally I would put it on the side, right at the bottom and orientate it so the bottom rib of the barrel shields it from any heat. The bottom rib that comes on the barrel usually comes with a set of 4 small cut outs to prevent standing water and vacuum etc underneath the barrel in normal use. I would cut these to make them bigger and allow for the release of hot gas to give a more efficient heating.

You can see the fittings I put on mine in this photo:

WillieP · Post by **WillieP** » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:37 pm

Paddy,
Thanks for your input.
All you have said is the direction that I am headed.
At least to start out with.
I'm afraid of the scorching potential. It can't be a good idea to have that kind of heat applied to a pipe filled with wash.
Seems like the drain on the side is the route to take.
I also think I will leave the Sankey port alone. If I can TC straight to it, why should I mess with it.
I think an additional port on top is a worthy addition. Size is the question. You can read that just big enough for a fill port is fine, so you can add more wash for a second run without pulling the still head. And you can read that if your adding a top port, make it large enough to use as a cleaning port. (arm size) And of course you can read that none of this is necessary, just use the keg as is.

More input welcome Lads and Lasses,
WillieP

paddy1000111 · Post by **paddy1000111** » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:07 am

Like you say, I am just confirming your plans mostly. When I built mine it was nice to bounce ideas off people. As far as the fill port goes, I have a 2" TC and that takes a high pressure hose for cleaning out quite nicely. You will probably have more issues with cleaning than me as I am using a heating element not heating the boiler itself so I don't get anything burnt on the sides, a quick rinse has it cleaned. My old still made from a 17L pressure cooker as a base never had anything burnt on though, that was run off the stove so you should be okay. I used a load of ceramic baking beads in the bottom of that one to keep the heat spread out and the stuff mixing itself a bit better and never had anything burnt on. If you want one for cleaning you will need to probably look at 4"-6" TC as I can't even get my hand through a 3" and I have large but skinny hands (A curse that gets me all the S**** jobs in engineering!) Your other option is to use a lufer type stick with a few scotchbrite pads on the end and go keyhole style, you are using SS not copper so you can go nuts with the super aggressive cleaners if you need them!

WillieP · Post by **WillieP** » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:18 am

Paddy,
This is really what I think the long term goal will look like. I don't feel a need for the see though top, just a blank.
I like the cut away side for some reason.

And yes, it definitely is nice to have people to bounce this stuff off of.
Thanks,
WillieP

paddy1000111 · Post by **paddy1000111** » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:18 am

That does look like a good plan! I think the side cutout will be necessary to weld the fitting on unless you do an internal bead and end up with what will probably be quite a sharp edge afterwards. The see though top is a nice idea but not nessicary like you say. It is useful if you had 2 heating elements and regularly ran 25L washes i guess as you can see the heating element and make sure you don't end up with a low tide! I have noticed however that not many people with gas burners seem to have drain valves though, maybe something to do with the heat and PTFE seals? Maybe it would be worth putting a bit of tube cut in half underneath the valve a bit like a heat shield?

WillieP · Post by **WillieP** » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:32 pm

Paddy,
I've been thinking about not wanting to cook the valve.
I think I want to have a threaded half coupling (see attached link) welded to the keg and then be able to extend the valve away from the heat with whatever length nipple I feel is necessary. That way the valve and nipple would be removable for storage and if I ever chose to do something different, I could always just put a threaded plug in the opening.
I agree if you were using electric the viewing port would come in handy, but I can't see a use for it if heating with gas.
My stainless work will be done by a pipefitter friend with a TIG rig, I'll just need to provide the fittings and the plan.
I'm considering putting legs on the keg to be able to elevate it's height enough to be able to drain the backset into a container easily.
Anyone have any thoughts on this???

https://www.ebay.com/p/Stainless-Steel- ... 050&chn=ps" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The Baker · Post by **The Baker** » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:47 pm

When I get around to finishing mine it will be upside down.
With the drain clamped onto the fitting.
And a modular fitting welded to what is now the top.

Geoff

WillieP · Post by **WillieP** » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:09 pm

Baker,
Are you going to be using electric elements or gas burner?

WillieP

Setsumi · Post by **Setsumi** » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:09 pm

Make a seperate stand for the keg, you can use any steel. And you keep the keg profile for better storage.

Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:05 pm

WillieP wrote:Paddy,
I've been thinking about not wanting to cook the valve.
I think I want to have a threaded half coupling (see attached link) welded to the keg and then be able to extend the valve away from the heat with whatever length nipple I feel is necessary. That way the valve and nipple would be removable for storage and if I ever chose to do something different, I could always just put a threaded plug in the opening.
I agree if you were using electric the viewing port would come in handy, but I can't see a use for it if heating with gas.
My stainless work will be done by a pipefitter friend with a TIG rig, I'll just need to provide the fittings and the plan.
I'm considering putting legs on the keg to be able to elevate it's height enough to be able to drain the backset into a container easily.
Anyone have any thoughts on this???

My boiler has a half coupling welded close to the bottom for the drain valve. I came off the coupling with a close nipple into a 1" ball valve and then into an elbow. I use both gas and electric. Gas for striping cloudy mash, electric for cleared and low wines. I'll use both gas and electric at the same time to cut down heat up time when I can without scorching. I have not had an issue with cooking the ball valve so far. The PTFE packing has an operating temp up to 500F. It seems the skirt of the keg shields it from the heat pretty well. I leave the boiler on the propane burner even when I am just running electric. The legs of the burner bring the drain up enough to get a 5 gallon bucket under it, so no need for welded legs.

I also have a 4" fill port at the top, like in the picture you posted. I put glass on mine. I really like having it on there regardless of gas or electric. I know when the fog clears from the glass that I'm getting close to production temp and it is time to turn the condenser on. Also, I can see if I'm pushing to hard or if I have any foaming issues and it's going to puke. In case you are considering a view port, I bought a pre cut borosilicate glass disc from Mcmaster Carr. Size 4 1/2" x 3/16" fits nicely inside the tri clamp. It was about $20. I wrap the disk in about 15 turns of teflon tape before I put the tri clamp on to seal it in.
Here's what my rig looks like for reference

The Baker · Post by **The Baker** » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:53 pm

WillieP wrote:Baker,
Are you going to be using electric elements or gas burner?

WillieP

Hi, Willie and everyone,
I used to run a pot still on bottled gas on our farm.
But a massive grass fire (thousands of hectares) burnt around our farm shed and to my surprise melted the big plastic water tank. So no water for ferments and no water for washing up.
And it would not have been worth the expense of a new tank.
So I am setting up at home in a very small way.
I have a small still that is heated by the wok burner on our barbecue (Americans would call it a grill) but have nearly set up a keg with an electric element. As a pot still. We have some solar panels that will help.
Should be fine.

Geoff

WillieP · Post by **WillieP** » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:30 am

Setsumi wrote:Make a seperate stand for the keg, you can use any steel. And you keep the keg profile for better storage.

Good point. Thanks.
Makes good sense.

WillieP · Post by **WillieP** » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:48 am

Longhairedcountryboy wrote:
My boiler has a half coupling welded close to the bottom for the drain valve. I came off the coupling with a close nipple into a 1" ball valve and then into an elbow. I use both gas and electric. Gas for striping cloudy mash, electric for cleared and low wines. I'll use both gas and electric at the same time to cut down heat up time when I can without scorching. I have not had an issue with cooking the ball valve so far. The PTFE packing has an operating temp up to 500F. It seems the skirt of the keg shields it from the heat pretty well. I leave the boiler on the propane burner even when I am just running electric. The legs of the burner bring the drain up enough to get a 5 gallon bucket under it, so no need for welded legs.

I also have a 4" fill port at the top, like in the picture you posted. I put glass on mine. I really like having it on there regardless of gas or electric. I know when the fog clears from the glass that I'm getting close to production temp and it is time to turn the condenser on. Also, I can see if I'm pushing to hard or if I have any foaming issues and it's going to puke. In case you are considering a view port, I bought a pre cut borosilicate glass disc from Mcmaster Carr. Size 4 1/2" x 3/16" fits nicely inside the tri clamp. It was about $20. I wrap the disk in about 15 turns of teflon tape before I put the tri clamp on to seal it in.
Here's what my rig looks like for reference

LHCB,
Thanks for your input.
Good to know you can have your valve that close. I would have guessed that it needed to have been farther away.
You make a good case for the glass viewing port also. I would have to buy a SS blank anyway (which I haven't priced), and the blank would have no pluses. (is that a word?)
Good looking kegs. I'm to new to fully understand how your rig is set up. Are you just running the two kegs in parallel, one on gas and one on electric, and then the vapor is combined before the PC?
And as long as I'm asking dumb questions, how does your PC work?
I'm confused by both water ports being right next to each other.
Does that have a inside and outside water jacket for the vapor path? Just a guess.

Thanks ,
WillieP

Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:11 am

WillieP wrote: LHCB,
Thanks for your input.
Good to know you can have your valve that close. I would have guessed that it needed to have been farther away.
You make a good case for the glass viewing port also. I would have to buy a SS blank anyway (which I haven't priced), and the blank would have no pluses. (is that a word?)
Good looking kegs. I'm to new to fully understand how your rig is set up. Are you just running the two kegs in parallel, one on gas and one on electric, and then the vapor is combined before the PC?
And as long as I'm asking dumb questions, how does your PC work?
I'm confused by both water ports being right next to each other.
Does that have a inside and outside water jacket for the vapor path? Just a guess.

Thanks ,
WillieP

It is a pot still with a thumper. The keg on the left is the boiler and the keg on the right is the thumper. The boiler is heated and produces vapor that travels through plumbing into the bottom of the thumper. The content of the thumper is heated by the steam produced by the boiler. I have a hard time describing the plumbing. I copied many of the design elements from this thread. There is lots of in depth information and discussion that covers all aspects of thumpers/steamer rigs on the board.

The PC is a jacketed condenser just like you see frequently used by many on this forum. I just really didn't like the cold water inlet at the bottom. The hose would hang in the way. I hard piped the cold input up to the top, right under the hot water out. The only reason was to tidy up the hoses. My water supply and drain line come in from the ceiling. That is why the connections are facing up instead of down, which is more typical. The cold water comes in via the blue hose, into the elbow and down through the 1/2" pipe to the bottom. The little piece of pipe soldered in between at the top under the elbow is just structural. Here is more detail...

WillieP · Post by **WillieP** » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:19 am

Longhairedcountryboy wrote:
It is a pot still with a thumper. The keg on the left is the boiler and the keg on the right is the thumper. The boiler is heated and produces vapor that travels through plumbing into the bottom of the thumper. The content of the thumper is heated by the steam produced by the boiler. I have a hard time describing the plumbing. I copied many of the design elements from this thread. There is lots of in depth information and discussion that covers all aspects of thumpers/steamer rigs on the board.

The PC is a jacketed condenser just like you see frequently used by many on this forum. I just really didn't like the cold water inlet at the bottom. The hose would hang in the way. I hard piped the cold input up to the top, right under the hot water out. The only reason was to tidy up the hoses. My water supply and drain line come in from the ceiling. That is why the connections are facing up instead of down, which is more typical. The cold water comes in via the blue hose, into the elbow and down through the 1/2" pipe to the bottom. The little piece of pipe soldered in between at the top under the elbow is just structural. Here is more detail...

LHCB,
Thanks for taking the time to clarify for me.
I understand the thumper concept, I just didn't recognize the single port on the second keg as being a vapor in and out. In my mind I imagine a thumper being made of a wooden barrel and having a separate in and out. I knew there was a single port thumper connection, I just haven't researched it well enough. Thanks for the link.
The first pic of the PC fooled me. I couldn't see that the cold water pipe was external and entering at the bottom.
The first thing I built was a PC. 1 inch over 3/4 inch X 36 inch, with 14ga copper wire spiraled between the pipes, and twisted sheet copper in the vapor path.
Thanks again for showing me your rig.
Cheers,
WillieP

WillieP · Post by **WillieP** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:19 pm

OK, So one of the things that I didn't cover in the OP was the coolant flow. I have spent the last two days reading threads on the topic, and what I have concluded is that everyone has a different opinion of how it should be done.
My intentions are as follows:
I will start out with using house water pressure from a garden hose. I may at some point move to a pump and reservoir.
1. Cold water in the bottom of the PC. (shotgun)
2. Output of the PC to the input of a 3-way T valve. These valves, as you may or may not know, balance their overall output between the 2 output ports. 100% input = 80% output #1 + 20% output #2, 50/50, 60/40, etc.
3. The first output from the 3-way valve will be piped to the common drain.
4. The second output from the 3-way valve will go to the input of the RC, bottom of the Dephlag. The reason I chose this is to be sure there is not air trapped in the water chamber of the RC.
5. The output of the RC would be at the top. This will pipe into a T, where the top of the T is open to atmosphere and the bottom is piped to the common drain. The reason for the vent to atmosphere is to act as a vacuum break to prevent siphoning of the RC, as the volume of water flowing from the 3-way valve to drain will be higher than the water flowing from the RC to drain.

So far, So good...?
Things that I haven't figured out if I need or not...

A. Will there be a need for a valve on the incoming water? I understand the on/off value of this, I'm asking if you would need to 'choke back' the overall waterflow to the cooling system? Say the output of the PC is to cold (or put another way, the input to the RC is not warm enough for improved control)
B. I've read over and over, you need a needle valve for better control. Should I put a needle valve directly on the output of the RC before the T? Is that the 'right' placement? I will be able to restrict flow through the RC with the 3-way valve, but will that be fine enough control?

My thoughts:
Yes add both valves.

Looking of advice from those more experienced than myself.
Thanks in advance,
WillieP.
Edit:
Mods, if this is not in the right place, please feel free to move it. I considered it a continuation of the original thread. Thanks.

Post by **raketemensch** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:57 pm

In my experience, running off house tap water was a PITA. With a flute you’ll want to set your reflux needle to a perfect level and leave it there for the majority of the run, especially once you hit the sweet spot and start collecting. Remember, with a flute it’s (mainly) your reflux valve that will control your output speed.

So, I’d get it all set up, and one of the kids would get in the shower... I’d adjust, get all set up, he’d get out. Adjust again. Then my wife would set off the dishwasher. Or I would want to start running water for the next wash/mash...

Having a big, fairly stable reservoir for refluxing is awesome. I actually run 50ft hoses out to the pool, but a couple of 55-gallon drums outside can do a beautiful job, too.

My plumbing is super simple, too. I have a Y splitting the incoming water to the RC and PC with a ball valve in front of it — all braided hose, no copper. The feed to the RC has a PVC needle valve on it — most people control the RC on the output, I just like doing it this way. It serves the purpose just fine, and I can use a much cheaper (plastic) valve because it’s always getting cool water so it won’t melt.

So the needle valve controls the water for reflux, and the rest just gets pushed through the PC.

The inputs on my PC/RC are stainless (they’re both CSST pipe condensers, dead-simple to make, thanks to DAD2000), so I just run the braided vinyl to and from them all.

My build is here, if you’d like to check it out:

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=59022

WillieP · Post by **WillieP** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:21 pm

Raketemensch,
Thanks for the heads up on the whole kids taken a shower and the wife starting the dishwasher thing. I hadn't even given that a thought. I do have the ability to use a reservoir that I could partially drain and freshen with cold water again.
Now that you have me thinking in that direction, you could put a float valve on the top of the tank and a drain with a valve on the bottom. When you partially opened the drain, the float valve would automatically fill the tank with cold water again. If it wasn't keeping up and the temp was still rising, just open the drain valve a little more. I think this would help keep the temp in the tank more stable. I like this idea, Thanks Man.
My first thought on using a reservoir was to use an oversized pump (to much flow) and then return the excess back to the tank via a shower head. Crazy I know. The thought being that it would have a cooling effect, similar to a cooling tower. But in my mind it would not have been enough cooling. I may still try it out, it can't hurt anything. Maybe the float valve and the shower head return.
Time will tell.

+1 on the braided hosed. That one I had figured already.

Thanks for getting the wheels a turning.

WillieP

Post by **raketemensch** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:52 pm

Anytime, man, it’s what ee’re here for.

Post by **DetroitDIY** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:17 pm

That set up looks very bright and shiny Countryboy. Did you just whip that up since we met this past fall? I like the hard plumbed Leibig input at the top... just looks nifty.

paddy1000111 · Post by **paddy1000111** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:51 am

On the point of pumps I use a 6000LPH pump that has a 5M head (85W motor) and honestly, I wouldn't buy anything less than that when you go looking. I have previously had a 650lph and a 1600lph. Both were not powerful enough and caused issues down the road. I have a full bore isolation valve on the end of the return line that I adjust the flow with. The fish tank type pumps can run fine with the return line completely shut, I run mine out the sink with some big ice cubes that I make by filling a sandwich box and freezing it and cooling water has never been an issue!

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