My method to rums

[distiller_dresden]

Hello! If you're a new distiller then welcome to the right place. Here are concentrated all MY rules or guidelines for rum washes, and information about aging after you've made your product.

If you're an experienced distiller, and hip to rum, please share and suggest so we can have this be a place someone can come wondering, "How do I do a rum?" Let's get them off on the right foot so that they're able to jump past a bit of the learning and reading for reference to start making their own good rums!

Here we go-
I like wash potential ABV% at around 9 +/-1%. A typical rum wash, for 5 gallon pots (thus washes):
1 gallon dunder (this is what's left of a rum wash in the pot after you distill it; reserve this for your next wash at a rate of 20-25% the volume of your new wash)
4 gallons water
4500-5000g sugar equivalent (meaning the grams of sugar in the source of it you add to the wash)**
7g yeast of choice (493 EDV or Lallemand RM, K1V-1116, Lallemand Belle Saison {any 'saison' yeast is good})
-you can also under pitch yeast, so 4g, in order to stress it and cause the production of more esters (good for rum...=flavors and nose!)
Yeast nutrient (amounts vary; what many don't know is sugar washes -- vs grain washes -- need double the nutrients of grain, Fermaid K calls for 2g/gallon of wash -- and 1g/gal for grains)
HEAT - rum washes develop more flavor at higher temps; high temp also stresses the yeast - more esters = good - suggested 85-95F ferment temps
Oxygenate? -- Not oxygenating can also stress yeast (esters baby!). This is up to you, you can also oxygenate the wash, or skip it and use a drop of extra virgin olive oil. There's studies behind it.

Have thumper(s)? GOOD if so, thumpers, and especially multiple, are great for rums due to the ester formation process. It's called 'Fischer's Esterfication' and it happens in sealed, heated environments with copper raising it due to the reactivity with the metal. Which brings me to-

ALWAYS run with a cleaned pot. Especially if you have copper, your copper should be SHINY inside to assure it's reactive. Do this by filling the pot with 2 gallons vinegar, some cut this with water at a 50/50 ratio. I just do straight vinegar. Then don't run water/cooling on your worm. Run this for 30 mins without cooling, then I like to do an additional 45 mins with cooling (water on worm). Let everything cool on its own. You may need to scrub inside your pot, depending how much patina has built up. If so, mix 4c vinegar with 3tblsp citric acid (powder, available in brew shops or online), and 1/2c salt -- use this solution with a non-scratching scrub pad (just non-abrasive, typical dish sponge is okay) and scrub the insides until shiny, you won't need to press very hard or do much 'scrubbing' as the solution works on it's own very well, 5-6 swipes of the wet pad will clean almost any spot shiny.

Okay, now you've fermented your rum wash; you've cooked your wash (heating up low and cooking slow is best for rums).
COOK - heat up low, I usually take about an hour and a half to start getting alcohol from my worm, with my 5 gal pot, 2.5 gal thump, and 1 gal thump hooked up inline. Collect smaller amounts in multiple jars. I use pint jars and collect 8oz at a time. NOTE: Once you're into your late heads/early hearts, increase heat to speed up a little, smearing (having some heads or tails mixed in with your hearts due to cook speed) is GOOD for rum.

For 5 gal wash, throw out first 2-3oz that come out, these are foreshots and you can discard or use to strip/clean around your home/shop. They'll also usually smell awesome. Next comes heads, then hearts, then tails, then your oily (foggy distillate) tails. ALWAYS collect up through oily tails with rum.

SAVE your heads and tails not used in the cut. I personally save the first jar or 2 of heads, and then ALL the tails including the foggy ones. I like to pour all this into the same container (I use half-gal mason jars). If you save all your 'discard' cuts this way (just discard the extra heads I don't save; you can also use these for cleaning with those fores) when you have enough (5 gal for my pot) you can then cook this, and you'll get about 40% more hearts out of it -- that's 2 gal for a 5 gal tails/feints run!

You'll also use this feints you've saved if you have a thumper for part of the thump charge, the rum oils in these feints are worth TONS of flavor.



Now, CUTS:
I typically only take 50-60% of my total distillate in cuts I keep. I am very picky about heads/tails. This is an art in itself, learning heads/hearts/tails and cuts, I won't get into it here... But to say you probably shouldn't keep more than 65% of a run at most, as a soft rule.



AGING:
You want to age rum at anywhere from 55-62% ABV. This is the ideal percentage for aging on oak; less will pull more undesirable 'woody' flavors and not what you want. More will, I don't know, pull faster? Shoot for 60%.

Rum - almost always age on oak, unless you're making a white. Studies have shown it takes approximately 210 days with 60% spirit in contact with oak to extract vanilla compounds in the wood. I like my oak medium-plus toasted for the most vanillan compounds available. However, when you age on 'char' level of wood toast, as if it were inside a whiskey barrel, the rum will pull sugars caramelized in the wood by the char and become sweeter. HOWEVER-

Rum should be aged on oak that's already been used to age something at least once so that it's not as heavy with the oak tannins and flavors. If not rum can easily be over-oaked and begin to taste more like a whiskey or bourbon; this is opinion, some like that, I don't. I made rum, I want RUM.

More time is better than less; if you're aging in large glass vessels then you want to probably age at least 3-4 mos with the top loose for heads/higher alcohols to evaporate out and smooth as they would through the side of a barrel. WHEN TO PULL? I pull my rums when the oak intensity is about 20-30% MORE than I desire. As you proof the spirit down to 40% and as time goes by, the wood character will change and smooth/mellow out to exactly where you like it. So always pull it after it's stronger than you'd like, by 20-30%. The fact is glass aging is different than barrel aging. Barrels breathe more, and there is a higher ratio of volume spirits to surface area of wood. Glass aging can get oak flavors and tannins quicker because of the nature of dominoes/wood chunks submerged in the spirit. If you have made very good cuts, then this is how glass aging can make perfectly great drinkable product in a shorter amount of time.

BACK SWEETENING:
There's debate about this. Personally I feel a rum blossoms with a touch of sugar source. I prefer to start at 20g/sugar (check nutrition label for g/sugar per serving and adjust for 5g to know how much whatever you're using to add) per gallon, which is 5g/L. From there the next clear 'level' of difference is 40g/sugar per gal, or 10g/L. Each 5g/L is when you'll note a difference from the lower level. DO it slowly. I like to add only 5g/L once a day and try the next day, adjust like so until you're happy. You don't want the 'sweet' to overpower the bitterness of the oak, you want them in harmony/balance. To put this all in perspective: 2 tablespoons of maple syrup have about 50g sugar in them, so the initial 5g/L or 20g/gal sugar is suggesting, at least with maple syrup (as different sugar sources have different sugar content) one tablespoon per gallon of rum. Lookout! That's a new bar-back cocktail creation, wait til you see the glass it's served in!

So much more, but this is a great start I think!

**sugar source: I used 'grams of sugar' as in nutrition labels, which aren't concerned in the calorie panel about types of sugar, just 'caloric' sugars. Yes, rum is traditionally molasses (or fresh sugar cane squeezings), and is technically only cane sugars. I'm not here to enforce rules on you; use the sugar source of your preference, it's 2019. Unless you're a commercial distiller and are making a 'rum' for production, nobody is enforcing rules as to what you call rum (except people who will attack you for calling it rum if it isn't from cane sugar, then they'll also attack you for calling a 'scotch' something with all liquid or dry malt extract, because 'scotch' has to be made from mashing GRAINS, NOT using someone else's mashed grain wash that's been concentrated and rehydrated -- don't ask me the difference they will be so salty and imperative about)

[NZChris]

I think the only "rule" I abide by is the delayed start of distillation

I don't remove rum from wood except to draw some off for the drinks cabinet. Wood breaks down over time, providing increasing levels of desirable compounds. You can get some idea of what happens by reading tasting notes of increasingly aged rums from individual distilleries.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

There is alot here that I not only feel is not a rule, but just wrong.

First, I find any back sweetened alcohol quite awful. It's a mask that is used to cover up sub par alcohol. Rum, whiskey, brandy, gin ,e.t.c. is only bastardized by it, and a true master of the craft doesn't need it. I make fine spirits, not cocktails in a bottle.

If you age with the lid off, your just asking for heartbreak. I age in an attic to get better temp swings in and out of the wood. It's dry and hot. It's the best for aging, but if there is too loose a lid, I have an empty jar.

Also, if you think 3-4 months is enough for rum, you're only pretending to know something about rum. You can't super sonic it, or shake it, or add Belgium ostrich tears to it to get it there. If you drink it under a year, you haven't been able to understand true rum.

There's other difference of opinions here, but I'm not trying to nit pick. These are the things that I feel needed to be pointed out as far from rules.

Edit. Oh, I forgot about the still cleaning. Wrong. Leave your damn copper alone. I haven't cleaned my still in 5 years, and I'll put my rum up against anybody's. I ain't got anything to prove, but that's just a bad lead for any one new that finds the motive to listen to that advice.

[Saltbush Bill]

I agree , lots and lots wrong with this , and it would only cause confusion to newbies. The still cleaning part is just one of the weird bits.
I doubt that anyone who's been distilling for less time than it takes to age rum properly is in a position to tell newbies how to oak and age the stuff.

[Pesty]

The best rule about rum is that their isnt any. All spirits have a set of qualifiers to be call what they are.. rhum is basicly anything made from cane sugar or itls by prodicts and the fact that the dirtier the wash, the better its going to taste thanks to dunder and the pits its resides in.

[distiller_dresden]

Yeah you're right I don't know shit about rum. Couldn't produce anything even half-decent if my life depended on it.

Distiller_Dresden’s Maple Rum - 42%

I had a chance to try a few glasses of DD’s Maple Rum last night and again today. Below are my tasting notes on this rum. DD asked for an honest opinion so I decided to try the rum and make notes before going back and re-reading his recipe thread. I did not want anything I read to influence my notes, though I do know he gets quite elaborate in his recipes and he like backsweetening things, so here goes with my tasting notes:

Tasting Notes
Opening the bottle and taking a whiff the first and dominant scent I detect is Panela. A few more whiffs and the panela seems to dissipate and I am smelling sweet and a molasses base that included dunder in the ferment.

In the glass notes. Very pleasant smell, with no alcohol burn whatsoever. I can smell that this was aged on toasted oak, not overly strong. The panela is much harder to find in the glass, and the base now seems more like a solid molasses/backset base. I smell something sweet and candy like, and am labeling it Maple given that is in the name, though I can’t say for sure that is what I am detecting.

Taking a few sips I can taste Maple, thought it is faint. It’s a nice pleasant semi-sweet flavor up front. I can taste the molasses/backset base too. No panela taste that I can detect. This rum tastes light and sweet up front, and has a dry finish. After the light/sweet subsides I can taste the toasted oak and am chalking up the dry finish to the oak aging. After the dryness subsides, I’m left with a light Maple finish that lingers a bit. Yummy.

I got the impression this would taste nice warmed up. It does. I heated up a pan of water then placed my glass in it until the rum was warm. It gave the drink a creaminess and really brought out the sweet notes up front and it still finished dry. I got just a bit of that alcohol burn when it was warmend up and it was still enjoyable.

Conclusion
Overall a really pleasant drink. I know it’s sweetened, but not overly so. It has a wonderful nose and unique pleasant taste. Not even the slightest presence of heads or tails could be detected. Not sure it this was a really clean cut or just proper aging.

The only change I could recommend would be a bit less oak so it’s not quite as dry at the end. This is just my personal taste, and others may not notice the oak dryness like I do. I have a slight allergy to oak and it causes my throat to tighten up a bit, like an astringent feeling, so it’s presence is something I am always aware of.

Very nice rum. I like it.

Otis
.

Your package arrived today. Thank You.

Your Rums are amazing, the most interesting thing we found was how unique the flavors were….like nothing I have tasted before (and I have tasted a lot of rums). You have a future as a rum consultant should you chose to go in that direction. All of the samples seemed adequately aged although I know some are ultrasonically treated and some have time over various woods.

With the Sugar shack Rumbullion, I perceived licorice and almond spice on the nose. Unique flavors. Something I haven’t tasted in rums…. there is almost a flavor of sandalwood or incense on the afterburn.

As for the Hazelnut Honey butter This rum is truly Hazelnut and honey. The flavors are undeniable. We enjoyed this one, it was much like a liquor and reminded me of my “Rusty Nail” liquor that I make. I will include a sample for you.

Coconut Blossom. Our favorite of the group…The flavor has hints of apple and pear. What is that the wood I am tasting ? This must be the one with coconut sugar ?

Thank you again for the “Care package” you sent. You made our Friday evening a very enjoyable one and hands down your unique rums are a cut above what is being sold on the market these days.

I tried some of this yesterday, full review to come, but OMG the smell of it. I don't know how DD got this smell. It literally smells the way a Buttered Popcorn Jelly Belly tastes and it isn't faint. Craziest smelling spirit I've ever smelled.

And backsweetened rum shouldn't BE sweet. You wouldn't even notice sometimes. Talk to any rum distilleries, they clean their copper down to shiny every. single. time. The copper helps with Fischer's Esterfication and reacts with the fatty acids in the wash/distillate, creating more esters. For copper to be at its most reactive, it must be exposed and shiny.

These are NOT rules for grain bills; grain has different rules, not stressing yeast, a patina on the copper.

But you do you, be happy with your own rum. That's a given, really.

[NZChris]

I don't know what makes 493 EDV so cool to use. I've made a lot of rum over the years and the worst smelling ferment I ever had was using 493 EDV. Her Indoors walked into the distillery and said, "I smell shit!". Fortunately, it was only one still charge worth to make some dunder, I didn't keep the dunder. I've done a spirit run with it but the heart cut smelled like shit and it still smells like shit after months on oak. The feints got tossed out the door.

I immediately put another ferment down using the same ingredients, but with bakers yeast, and it turned out very nice, as usual.

[corene1]

I am a rum newbie but after reading your post I found no mention of Molasses in the recipe only sugar. Maybe I just missed it . In my 30 gallon ferments I use 2 gallons of molasses and add dark brown sugar to bring the brix up to 17. Love my new refractometer makes thing so simple. Depending on the molasses it typically takes about 30 pounds of added sugar. I will strip 20 gallons of this wash and stop collecting at10% . I will recharge the boiler with the low wines and add the last 10 gallons to it as well then do a spirit run using a single plate and 6 inches of copper packing . I will make my setup to come off the condenser at 160 proof . from there I can cut it in multiple way as well as make some spiced rum .

[nerdybrewer]

I am a rum newbie but after reading your post I found no mention of Molasses in the recipe only sugar. Maybe I just missed it . In my 30 gallon ferments I use 2 gallons of molasses and add dark brown sugar to bring the brix up to 17. Love my new refractometer makes thing so simple. Depending on the molasses it typically takes about 30 pounds of added sugar. I will strip 20 gallons of this wash and stop collecting at10% . I will recharge the boiler with the low wines and add the last 10 gallons to it as well then do a spirit run using a single plate and 6 inches of copper packing . I will make my setup to come off the condenser at 160 proof . from there I can cut it in multiple way as well as make some spiced rum .

Corene, what refractometer are you using?
I've tried a couple but find it hard to get good readings so far, it's either my dirty wash is just too messy or the equipment I've bought is not up to the task.

[Saltbush Bill]

I don't know what makes 493 EDV so cool to use.

Talking to other Rum makers who Ive met in person 85% of them have said that they cant tell the difference between rum made with 493 or Bakers Yeast, another 10% say there is a difference but it is a small difference, the remaining 5% claim its better and gives a superior product.
I'm in the no to very little difference camp.

My personal opinion on back sweetening or colouring with caramel is that both techniques are used in the industry to improve rums that are not up to scratch in the first place ......they are short cuts,
Both good taste and colour can be achieved by aging the right way for the right amount of time without adding other rubbish to the product.

AGING:
You want to age rum at anywhere from 55-62% ABV. This is the ideal percentage for aging on oak; less will pull more undesirable 'woody' flavors and not what you want. More will, I don't know, pull faster? Shoot for 60%.

Quite a few commercial rums and some hobby rums are aged /oaked in the high 60s and even 70s. Undesirable woody flavours usually come from to much oak for to short a time.

I don't really give a rats how any one chooses to make their Rum but at least stick to the one universal rule that is internationally recognized. It should be made using ONLY products and by products of the sugarcane industry. Strange ingredients cobbled together with 8 drops of Molasses does not make Rum.

[Oldvine Zin]

I don't know what makes 493 EDV so cool to use. I've made a lot of rum over the years and the worst smelling ferment I ever had was using 493 EDV. Her Indoors walked into the distillery and said, "I smell shit!". Fortunately, it was only one still charge worth to make some dunder, I didn't keep the dunder. I've done a spirit run with it but the heart cut smelled like shit and it still smells like shit after months on oak. The feints got tossed out the door.

I immediately put another ferment down using the same ingredients, but with bakers yeast, and it turned out very nice, as usual.

I just finished stripping almost 50 gals of a panela wash that was fermented with 493 EDV, maybe you had other issues with your ferment?? Mine had wonderful aromas from day one and still wonderful after stripping down to 30 ABV, collected 15 Gals that I plan to do a spirit run with tonight.

I do agree that DD should of stated that "this is my set of rules" or "this is how I make rum", instead of this is the rules. Bottom line this is a hobby and I make a drink that I enjoy, and I'm sure that you also make a drink that you enjoy.
Peace and let's leave the hate elsewhere
OVZ

[WeegieDistiller]

Looks like a can of worms has been well & truly opened...
With mention of the maple rum and whatever other kind of syrup that you use to make rum, rum must be made from a sugar cane source else it ain't rum!
No need to clean the still unless you're switching from say gin to rum or a peated whisky and don't want the flavours to carry over, I always find my still shiny as a new penny since my rum washes tend to be slightly acidic anyway!
There's plenty of posts out there in the rum forum and no need to blow your own trumpet like you did man, I've also saw the posts on adding the fatty acids to your wash/thumper... takes the fun out of creating the dunder pits :p

[nerdybrewer]

I knew this was going to be entertaining, I've just been refreshing this thread all day!

[corene1]

I am a rum newbie but after reading your post I found no mention of Molasses in the recipe only sugar. Maybe I just missed it . In my 30 gallon ferments I use 2 gallons of molasses and add dark brown sugar to bring the brix up to 17. Love my new refractometer makes thing so simple. Depending on the molasses it typically takes about 30 pounds of added sugar. I will strip 20 gallons of this wash and stop collecting at10% . I will recharge the boiler with the low wines and add the last 10 gallons to it as well then do a spirit run using a single plate and 6 inches of copper packing . I will make my setup to come off the condenser at 160 proof . from there I can cut it in multiple way as well as make some spiced rum .

Corene, what refractometer are you using?
I've tried a couple but find it hard to get good readings so far, it's either my dirty wash is just too messy or the equipment I've bought is not up to the task.

I use a VeeGee BTX-1. On the rum washes it works great On all grain mashes I have to make sure I only use the cleared liquid from the top of the mash .

[distiller_dresden]

I've also saw the posts on adding the fatty acids to your wash/thumper... takes the fun out of creating the dunder pits :p

:old man shaking fist:
Curse you kids, get off my lawn! What're ya doon trying to explore the hobby and spearminten' an' stuff! Thar's ONE WAY to do things, that's it. You kids n yer vidja games!

Not when you also curate a dunder pit lol. 'Cause I can do both! In the end my experimenting and seeking knowledge through experiences is open and I keep going as I learn more, because life is learning. If you're not trying different things to explore and improve, then I guess I'm doing more.

It's funny that I start a thread called 'rules' but say my sugar source is just listed as grams of sugar, because I'm such a rules baron, trying to enforce my own personal view, but then in said thread are comments about what rum is and isn't, and can't be, because they're citing manuals and dictionaries.

Oh, and Corene, yep molasses is standard! Your molasses and red wheat base made a fine rum!



These are just 'rules' in that it's all I've learned to begin approaching making the best Jamaican-style high ester rum. I'm not making a white rum, or a Captain Morgan's, just something that tastes great after spending some time with wood and is sippable straight. I'm not trying to preach, I'm trying to help, because it took me time and lots of experience since all I've done for 10 months is 4 rum washes a month, slowing to 2 in December and Jan. I've gone through three 5 gallon pails of molasses and 110lbs of panela besides my other (HERETIC!!) rum experiments. These are things I learned that are the startup basics for making high ester/big flavor rums, and I'll god damn well call them what I want without asking permission from pedants. I also pointed out to some of our 'community' (for like minded people to share and talk!) after it was inferred by some real experts, many people are saying, I mean it I'm hearing it more and more, they were saying that boy I don't know a thing about rum; so I shared evidence to the contrary given that this is, y'know, a 'community' (for rile minded 'people' to screech and berate).

*good positivity Zin!

**Oh! An official yeast expert, complete with sanctioned survey results, just in time to back up a personal belief as fact!

[nerdybrewer]

I've also saw the posts on adding the fatty acids to your wash/thumper... takes the fun out of creating the dunder pits :p

:old man shaking fist:
Curse you kids, get off my lawn! What're ya doon trying to explore the hobby and spearminten' an' stuff! Thar's ONE WAY to do things, that's it. You kids n yer vidja games!

Not when you also curate a dunder pit lol. 'Cause I can do both! In the end my experimenting and seeking knowledge through experiences is open and I keep going as I learn more, because life is learning. If you're not trying different things to explore and improve, then I guess I'm doing more.

It's funny that I start a thread called 'rules' but say my sugar source is just listed as grams of sugar, because I'm such a rules baron, trying to enforce my own personal view, but then in said thread are comments about what rum is and isn't, and can't be, because they're citing manuals and dictionaries.

Oh, and Corene, yep molasses is standard! Your molasses and red wheat base made a fine rum!


These are just 'rules' in that it's all I've learned to begin approaching making the best Jamaican-style high ester rum. I'm not making a white rum, or a Captain Morgan's, just something that tastes great after spending some time with wood and is sippable straight. I'm not trying to preach, I'm trying to help, because it took me time and lots of experience since all I've done for 10 months is 4 rum washes a month, slowing to 2 in December and Jan. I've gone through three 5 gallon pails of molasses and 110lbs of panela besides my other (HERETIC!!) rum experiments. These are things I learned that are the startup basics for making high ester/big flavor rums, and I'll god damn well call them what I want without asking permission from pedants. I also pointed out to some of our 'community' (for like minded people to share and talk!) after it was inferred by some real experts, many people are saying, I mean it I'm hearing it more and more, they were saying that boy I don't know a thing about rum; so I shared evidence to the contrary given that this is, y'know, a 'community' (for rile minded 'people' to screech and berate).

*good positivity Zin!

**Oh! An official yeast expert, complete with sanctioned survey results, just in time to back up a personal belief as fact!

110 whole pounds of panela?
10 whole months?

[distiller_dresden]

Y'know, don't post if you hate the thread. It's about helping new people make estery rums; if you don't like it, don't come around. Don't take my thread off-topic. This is supposed to be a community, nobody is swinging swords around; I'm minding my own business.

Yeah, that's what I've done so far. Your time doesn't automatically make you the expert, the source, nor make you relevant. People, helping people, that's relevant. Go spread negative elsewhere. I'm not crowing about being the godhead, I'm here to talk about making rums.

[nerdybrewer]

I've also saw the posts on adding the fatty acids to your wash/thumper... takes the fun out of creating the dunder pits :p

:old man shaking fist:
Curse you kids, get off my lawn! What're ya doon trying to explore the hobby and spearminten' an' stuff! Thar's ONE WAY to do things, that's it. You kids n yer vidja games!

Not when you also curate a dunder pit lol. 'Cause I can do both! In the end my experimenting and seeking knowledge through experiences is open and I keep going as I learn more, because life is learning. If you're not trying different things to explore and improve, then I guess I'm doing more.

It's funny that I start a thread called 'rules' but say my sugar source is just listed as grams of sugar, because I'm such a rules baron, trying to enforce my own personal view, but then in said thread are comments about what rum is and isn't, and can't be, because they're citing manuals and dictionaries.

Oh, and Corene, yep molasses is standard! Your molasses and red wheat base made a fine rum!


These are just 'rules' in that it's all I've learned to begin approaching making the best Jamaican-style high ester rum. I'm not making a white rum, or a Captain Morgan's, just something that tastes great after spending some time with wood and is sippable straight. I'm not trying to preach, I'm trying to help, because it took me time and lots of experience since all I've done for 10 months is 4 rum washes a month, slowing to 2 in December and Jan. I've gone through three 5 gallon pails of molasses and 110lbs of panela besides my other (HERETIC!!) rum experiments. These are things I learned that are the startup basics for making high ester/big flavor rums, and I'll god damn well call them what I want without asking permission from pedants. I also pointed out to some of our 'community' (for like minded people to share and talk!) after it was inferred by some real experts, many people are saying, I mean it I'm hearing it more and more, they were saying that boy I don't know a thing about rum; so I shared evidence to the contrary given that this is, y'know, a 'community' (for rile minded 'people' to screech and berate).

*good positivity Zin!

**Oh! An official yeast expert, complete with sanctioned survey results, just in time to back up a personal belief as fact!

110 whole pounds of panela?
10 whole months?

This is how we do rum. I typically ferment 90 gallons at a time using 150 Lbs panela (yes - each one of my ferments is more than you've ever done ever). Here is a picture of one of the shipments I bought from Sugar Daddy.
This is about a ton, sometimes we do 1200 Lbs, sometimes more.
I've got 440 Lbs just waiting for me to get the time to use it.
So yeah, no real shade but hey if you see yourself as the expert you go ahead.

[nerdybrewer]

I think I'll go get a glass of my 3 year old panela rum that spent time first in a once used Bourbon barrel for a year then transferred to a Rye Whiskey barrel for another year.
(Yeah - whole years)

[corene1]

couldn't resist

[Oldvine Zin]

ugly thread for sure tasting some aged 4 year 0ld young but tasty


OVZ

[distiller_dresden]

This is about a ton, sometimes we do 1200 Lbs, sometimes more.
I've got 440 Lbs just waiting for me to get the time to use it.
So yeah, no real shade but hey if you see yourself as the expert you go ahead.

Talk about making rum as relevant to my first post. No sugar source listed, no expertise claimed as 'it', nor did I whack-brag mine's bigger.

Go start your own thread and mosh pit each other all day. I'm trying to give people who are looking for a complete and valid method to make decent rum a starting point. My first post clearly asks people to share, as in their own 'rules', it's inferred subjective experiences, you animals. So post what you do to make tasty, estery rums, or make suggestions about rum process. Don't act like I'm on a high horse proclaiming King's Law, and get down off your own because you aren't anybody, same as me, and everyone else here. We're all other people with valid experiences and insights to share. You're not clever if you feel like proving it all the time; probably the opposite.

Budweiser goes through tons of barley. You go through tons of panela. No real shade.

[nerdybrewer]

Tons, yes, lots of trying and some failures along the way.
Many successes.
Those very few who have tasted my rum know it.
I, who have tasted the rum of some here who have posted in this thread know it.
You do not get good rum in "10 months".
Others who have been working on perfecting their craft here have said it well and tried in vain to educate you.

You made a post for "newbies" pretending to show them the "rules".
You seem to may here to be a rum newbie, however you just do not seem to know it.
The old timers here have been pretty gentle with you, just know your "rules" are your subjective guidelines that you have formed from your personal and limited experience.
There are some old timers here who have pointed out that many of your supposed "rules" are dead wrong.
Don't pretend to be giving newbies the rules when you clearly haven't a clue.
I'm done trying to help you - do what you want - but don't bother me.
My opinion is that it would do you well to humble yourself, listen to those who have more experience and learn.
But you will do what you will.
Unsubscribing from this thread now.

[thecroweater]

Yeah you're right I don't know shit about rum. Couldn't produce anything even half-decent if my life depended on it.

I'm sure with the right instruction that's not true. Let us know what style you're chasing and I'm confident I or someone else here can help
Jokes aside some people get it bit precious when it comes to how to best achieve a given style of rum, seen this many times.
One of the first threads I posted in that wasn't my own was called something like "the final word on molasses" . In that thread this joker writes he puts no credibility to anyone with brown sugar among the ingredients yet he had no issue with refined sugar and molasses. that is a bit of a wank stain position to hold as they are exactly the same thing. That said that method will water down the rum/molasses flavour.
Anyways back to this thread: The main problem and the reason for the reaction is twofold in the information is addressed directly to newbies and either not correct or subjective. Just one of the examples is the necessity to clean the still between runs, Pussers probably haven't cleaned their still in 360 years. It is not that all your methods are wrong, it is that you have written them as if they are "the right way" or at least best practices which ain't necessarily so. My oldest rum has blends ( components) coming up 7 years in the finishing barrel via a previous Solaris system and is beginning to show some promise, it's not the only way to age rum and may not be in the top 3 ways to go about it but it sure as heck is a way.
I'm getting the feeling reading this thread you are taking some criticism to heart or seeing it as a personal attack and as I know some of the posters personally I feel that that is not their aim here and their main concern would be to rebuke what they feel is misinformation.
It might be useful to take a step back and read the comments subjectfully from a different perspective rather than allow yourself to get all butt hurt over it as the combative replies induce similar responses giving the appearance of a dog pile

[gsugg]

I pretty much just do grain and never have had anything but commercial rums. Matter of fact if my memory is correct, way back in the start of the 1980's at college; we drank a lot of that horrible brand B_______ . After college almost never drank rum cause what I could get my hands on I just didn't care for. (Area I'm from most people do grain or Brandy out of muscadine grapes).

DD sent me some samples a few months ago of a few rums he did. My comments to him at the time were that his cuts were great, but the flavors were a tad off too my taste preferences. Fast forward and I just had samples of several of his latest rums. I have no idea if they conform to rules or not cause I don't know crap about how to do real rums, but I can honestly say that they taste great to me. I won't go into long winded descriptions cause I suck at that; all I can tell you is the couple of pints I got didn't last a week which is the best description I can give him.

I do agree that almost all posts should be written as opinion of the poster and not authoritative. DD and I have talked a number of times and we disagree on several points since he and I do completely different things, and yes he does have some strong opinions. I can also tell you that he's a good guy with good intentions and is just passionate about the hobby we all enjoy. (I'm also glad I didn't write this after drinking the last of what he sent me!)

[distiller_dresden]

Croweater that was downright helpful and you put your points very succinctly and clearly without anything unnecessary and with respect for someone else. Thank you. I don't know why that is difficult for people and threads turn into a debased fantasy in a pitch black underground skin club. I took time and double exhales before some responses; some people clearly think because they do one thing, it's the only thing, or because they do a lot of one thing, they get some kind of automatic authority.

I do agree rereading my top post that I presented it in a less than ideal way, but I ALSO agree (with myself, thank you me!) that I hedged my best with some of the 'this way' or 'do this' language by being very 'bright' and inviting in my top post. I clearly said 'please post and let's talk about YOUR ideas and practice' or to that effect, I mentioned that great UNITER, "Coversation." Later in my seemingly 'salty' replies I reiterated that 'hey, we're all here out of love and distilling, let's appreciate each other'. At no time did I announce I was the Last Word, and I even left things like source of sugar vague in my post, giving instead the equivalent grams of sugar via nutrition serving so one can decide on a source and then 'add up' to the numbers. For any pro examples I'm sure you can share (Pussers - UK right? Haven't had, they have a top shelf rum like an Admiral's that is supposed to be great) I know for a fact there are distilleries cleaning for shiny (Thomas Tew is one).

My idea was to come here and post everything /I/ do when I make rum, because I don't have various methods; I would venture to guess most of us don't. Yes, we may vary sugar source, or yeast, even the same person from wash to wash, but your /methods/ are probably going to stay the same, unless you find a reason to change them, and then THOSE methods will stay the same again. That's precisely why in the very first post I asked people to come in and post. For the next person to come and say, "Well, that's well and good, mate, but here's what I do!"

Instead some children on the computer came in and said, "Well, that's well and good, stupidhead, but you're stupid, stupidhead, because I think or do things different than that. You're so stupid dummy!" PARTICULARLY for someone to come in and grumble about my experiments with fatty acids, trying to develop a way to bypass dunder pits, that's just obtuse. There wouldn't be Hampden's Rum today if they didn't embrace experimentation; to imagine there's not a lab of sorts present at a lot of Rum distillers is a fool's errand. Now I'll qualify because I know how these 'minds' work; no, I'm not saying I'm as great as Hampden's, I'm pointing out I embrace some of their philosophy and believe SCIENCE has just as much place here as 'tradition'. Or the pert, pedantic, "It has to come from sugarcane to be rum!" Okay, sophomore, we know you've read the book, thanks, sit down now. I'd argue most people on this site are NOT here for any of that, they're here to learn and face it, be creative with the hobby. That creativity can encompass strict adherence to the rules, it's own kind of exploration and enjoyment, or it can spiral out and try new things and see where it goes, success or fail. No industry grows in stagnation.

People coming in and saying, "Oh, well, all that's wrong, just surprised how entirely all of it is wrong."

Yeah, the 9% wash plus or minus one is 'wrong'. Higher temp fermenting is 'wrong'. Age on oak is 'wrong'. Children are people who 'all' or 'nothing' and 'black and white' the world and I don't have time for, nor should we give time to, children posting on the internet. The world isn't black and white, or all/nothing. Adults can have something be different than what they know, and be perfectly okay with that! In fact, then they can go on doing something THEY are used to without attacking the different thing. So why couldn't someone who was 'threatened' by my post as 'rules' post their own rules, similarly as I posted, in response and let that be rebuttal. Because we ALL KNOW there is not ONE WAY to do ANYTHING, not even in this hobby, in the world.

There is, however, just one way to spell 'solera system'. Solaris system is totally different, and George Clooney loses his mind to the alien planet there.

[MichiganCornhusker]

...all posts should be written as opinion of the poster and not authoritative.

DD, you made a mistake by calling your protocol "rules" in the title of your thread here. That's gonna get you a lot of crap from other folks here, plain and simple.
My advice to you is to accept that you brought on the initial onslaught of criticism yourself with that arrogant title.
Secondly, knock off the personal attacks, they're just extending this agony.
Personally, between the title of the thread, and your attitude toward criticism that followed, I don't really see this thread going anywhere good.
Please prove me wrong.

This is just petty,

There is, however, just one way to spell 'solera system'.

I ALSO agree (with myself, thank you me!) that I hedged my best...

I think you meant "bets" there.

[distiller_dresden]

Please prove me wrong.

This is just petty,

There is, however, just one way to spell 'solera system'.

I ALSO agree (with myself, thank you me!) that I hedged my best...

I think you meant "bets" there.

Not trying to be petty or demanding. You made no mention of the many times I said 'share/suggest' or 'community' and that we're all here to talk and learn. I also changed the wording on my first post to 'my rules'.

Here's me proving you wrong - I was not being petty with Crow, the solera system was backed by a smiley and a wink face, which is universal internet for 'kidding around', yet you didn't post the emoji in order to make your point; you omitted relevant information to seem 'right'. Second, no I didn't mean 'bets', English is a rules-based language, especially in writing, and again the fuller statement was, "I hedged my best with some of the 'this way' or 'do this' language ," meaning I was doing my best to hedge my bets on what would be taken out of my statements. In this instance the presence of 'bets' is inferred. Also, you said I'm petty then pointed out half of my statement to Croweater as proof, then you pointed out what you assumed was a spelling error as oneupsmanship, being, as you would say, petty, while trying to be clever doing the same thing you accused me of. Saying 'less personal attacks' while making a personal attack.

That was exactly a post reply that is not on topic and is continuing the negativity. Just be better man, post YOUR rules of making rums, what you do each time. That's all; if you want to 'back it up' then explain why you do these things. This isn't a debate; it's an invite to conversation. People who can't converse or get beyond their own perspective often try to derail conversations by trying to nitpick isolated points into a debate to kill conversation.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Gotcha.

[distiller_dresden]

You win then? Have a participation trophy. Now participate; share your practices based on your own beliefs and experience. That's the only success to be had here, sharing knowledge and experience.