A 3 inch three plate and 4 inch three plate

[hellbilly007]

Looking good Jack

[Jack C]

Thank you. I am stripping two runs now the I will do the cleaning runs on these and my 4 inch shotgun.

[Yummyrum]

Hope it runs as good as it looks Jack

[Jack C]

Thanks Yummy I will post after cleaning on how it behaves. I am also going to check the water use on the shotgun and clean a 6 inch bubble plate that will run under a packed column.

[Jack C]

Finished the cleaning runs. As normal a lot of fogging with the vinegar run, but running some alcohol through it was fine. The behavior is much improved from before. I can run it at 95% of my 5.5K element and not flood. The top caps really splash the liquid that’s coming down from the other plate. I think there is enough room that hopefully it will not entrain much on the vapor up. I am not planning to run it wide open but nice to know that they can keep up. Also cleaned up the shotgun. Reaction times where not bad but it is a water hog compared to the csst condensers.

[Jack C]

A couple pics of the caps on the sac run.

The large size of the castle cuts on the bottom of the cap skirt seems to encourage large bubbles and a lot of splashing of the liquid bed. I did not notice ant entrainment while running the sac run. The real proof will be when actually running something I want to keep.

[Setsumi]

Notwithstanding big oil's patent on a very similar concept in like 1937 or some such,,,the 2nd and 3rd generation originals.
The big oil design has a ring of dental work around the perimeter of the top of the cap to promote laminar flow. Thought we had an original thought with this. In retrospect pretty arrogant thinking hahaha.

Gen 3 is definitely built for speed.

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for interest sake in 2012 Imakehooch had a tread on a similar cap. it was not well discussed and he did not showed a build. but when i saw the pro cap i searched for his thread.

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=31973

[LWTCS]

The time signature predates the ProCap for sure. Gotta build and test it though.
The ProCap concept is just a bit different in that most bubble cap plates have multiple bubble caps and a downcomer. The ProCaps concept provide an equal amount of real estate for bubble cap and downcomer.
The OP in that thread intended on using the single large cap based on his drawing. Of course we now know the single large cap with integrated downcomer works.

I had forgot all about that thread.

[Jack C]

Well obviously not a new idea but it seems to work and I believe this single cap in a 3 inch gives more through put and will handle more power than the smaller multiple caps in a 3 inch.

[Setsumi]

i am very interested in the single cap with integrated down cummer.. i nearly did them for my 4" but time got in my way. but i have piece of 3"....

a question, how high are your new caps?

[Jack C]

The last set of caps I made are .875 inch. The cover on top is .750 above the cap.

[NineInchNails]

I recently purchased two 2" copper caps to be installed in a 3" sight glass tower in the future. The rim of the caps were irregular so I filed them until they were flat & uniform. The caps measure 1.38" tall. Any reason to not leave them this tall? Should they be shortened? I'm not sure if there are optimal heights or not.

Great thread by the way! I'm really glad I stumbled upon this. I'm making a 3" dephlegmator right now. The glass will be next.

[LWTCS]

I recently purchased two 2" copper caps to be installed in a 3" sight glass tower in the future. The rim of the caps were irregular so I filed them until they were flat & uniform. The caps measure 1.38" tall. Any reason to not leave them this tall? Should they be shortened? I'm not sure if there are optimal heights or not.

Great thread by the way! I'm really glad I stumbled upon this. I'm making a 3" dephlegmator right now. The glass will be next.

Though there is a likely threshold, the deeper liquid bed can push ABV higher as it will allow for more alcohol to be shifted into the apparatus.
However, deeper liquid beds can trap good and bad flavors. (This is why 8 actual plates are not a good choice for vodka even though abv may be within vodka range. But that is another topic.)
Deeper liquid beds also increase pressure within the space between each plate. That can result in bad hydrolyc behavior.
So you have to design accordingly.
Be mindful that perfs do not have the widest operating range, meaning that deeper liquid beds are better executed with bubble caps.

[Jack C]

I had made some single caps in the past that where just over an inch tall. I found that I could never get them to make the product I wanted. It could have been many other mistakes I was making or too deep a fluid bed. Don’t really know but I stay just over 3/4 inch with the liquid bed now.

[NineInchNails]

Thanks guys LWTCS and Jack C. I did search the site and couldn't find anything that spoke about the cap's height, that's why I asked. Just over 1" tall it is.

[LWTCS]

Btw added pressure between plates can be mitigated by simply increasing your plate spacings.

[Jack C]

NIN. The caps I am running now are .875 tall. I had trouble with mine when above one inch.

[Setsumi]

Well I started my 2 inch caps for the 3 inch column.
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I also made three additional covers that I am going to make umbrellas out of to cover the center hole. I hope that the umbrella cover will also help flash alcohol that is dripping from the plate above and stop the plate bypass of falling down the center hole.
Will post more tomorrow as they get built.

can you give dimensions of the slots? how did you made them? if you have to do it over will you do it smaller? at this time i am planning to do 3mm wide by 6mm tall om a 67mm cap on a 100mm plate. yeh metric... 6mm is prolly 1/4"and 100mm is 4", if it helps.

[Jack C]

The slots are .250 tall and .250 wide. Or 6.35mm. I would keep the .250 tall and make them .125 wide if I was doing it over. I cut them with a pair of hand nippers.

[Setsumi]

thanks. i will then stick with the 3mm x 6mm. a fellow distiller in my town has a metal nibbler, i will give that a try.

[Evil Wizard]

Would this design handle solids well from a feed point above the plate? If I made the downcomer bottom cap extra wide? I think I'll build a single cap plate for a 6" column.

[Jack C]

I really don’t know. I would think it has a high chance of plugging.

[RC Al]

Btw added pressure between plates can be mitigated by simply increasing your plate spacings.

Can you explain this a bit better?

I thought that in a still that everything before a given restriction (ie a filled plate) is at the same pressure?

For example, if you had 4 plates with all the same bath depths that generate (to pick a number) 0.5 psi, that the pressure in each of the lower plates below the top one and the boiler would be 0.5psi. Then if you made only the top plate's bath deeper, and subsequently up to say 0.7psi, that the other plates below and the boiler would be at 0.7psi as well?

Do I have this wrong?

Or are you just saying that the height helps prevent entrainment from the more violent plate action due to the higher pressure?

Or something else?

[LWTCS]

Btw added pressure between plates can be mitigated by simply increasing your plate spacings.

Can you explain this a bit better?

I thought that in a still that everything before a given restriction (ie a filled plate) is at the same pressure?

For example, if you had 4 plates with all the same bath depths that generate (to pick a number) 0.5 psi, that the pressure in each of the lower plates below the top one and the boiler would be 0.5psi. Then if you made only the top plate's bath deeper, and subsequently up to say 0.7psi, that the other plates below and the boiler would be at 0.7psi as well?

Do I have this wrong?

Or are you just saying that the height helps prevent entrainment from the more violent plate action due to the higher pressure?

Or something else?

That might be a better way of looking at it.
This is my thinking:
1. Fill a container 3/4 of the way full with liquid, and then pressurize the container with air to 15 psi.
2. Fill the same size container 1/4 of the way full with liquid and pressurize the container with air to 15 psi.
The container with the most amount of head space will take longer to pressurize to 15 psi.

My point being that creating more headspace between liquid beds will allow for more heat input (more heat = more pressure) without having to deal with bad hydraulic behavior.

[Setsumi]

Btw added pressure between plates can be mitigated by simply increasing your plate spacings.

Can you explain this a bit better?

I thought that in a still that everything before a given restriction (ie a filled plate) is at the same pressure?

For example, if you had 4 plates with all the same bath depths that generate (to pick a number) 0.5 psi, that the pressure in each of the lower plates below the top one and the boiler would be 0.5psi. Then if you made only the top plate's bath deeper, and subsequently up to say 0.7psi, that the other plates below and the boiler would be at 0.7psi as well?

Do I have this wrong?

Or are you just saying that the height helps prevent entrainment from the more violent plate action due to the higher pressure?

Or something else?

That might be a better way of looking at it.
This is my thinking:
1. Fill a container 3/4 of the way full with liquid, and then pressurize the container with air to 15 psi.
2. Fill the same size container 1/4 of the way full with liquid and pressurize the container with air to 15 psi.
The container with the most amount of head space will take longer to pressurize to 15 psi.

My point being that creating more headspace between liquid beds will allow for more heat input (more heat = more pressure) without having to deal with bad hydraulic behavior.

i understand why you say more heat= more pressure. but i am not sure there is a markable increase in pressure, sure more heat generate more vapour but this just boil more vigorous through the bath... and may lead to entertainment.

[LWTCS]

How bout this?

If by virtue of applying too much heat, the operator inadvertently overloads one or more plates to the point that "back pressure" increases enough to hydraulically force liquid from a lower plate , to an upper plate. Indeed a form of entrainment.
Have you seen that happen yet? Do you know what I'm talking about?
Is back pressure a better way to explain?

Define a marked increase in pressure. It really doesn't take much.

[Setsumi]

How bout this?

If by virtue of applying too much heat, the operator inadvertently overloads one or more plates to the point that "back pressure" increases enough to hydraulically force liquid from a lower plate , to an upper plate. Indeed a form of entrainment.
Have you seen that happen yet? Do you know what I'm talking about?
Is back pressure a better way to explain?

Define a marked increase in pressure. It really doesn't take much.

no i have not seen it, yet. maybe i just do not have enough heat or balls to create the condition. i do want to understand what you are saying, especially since you talk about pressure. something that i am afraid off. if you say hydrolicly lift, is it when the hole chamber between plates are filled or when liquid jumps from one plate to the next? is it instantly or gradually? what will the sign be that you are approaching that condition?

[LWTCS]

How bout this?

If by virtue of applying too much heat, the operator inadvertently overloads one or more plates to the point that "back pressure" increases enough to hydraulically force liquid from a lower plate , to an upper plate. Indeed a form of entrainment.
Have you seen that happen yet? Do you know what I'm talking about?
Is back pressure a better way to explain?

Define a marked increase in pressure. It really doesn't take much.

no i have not seen it, yet. maybe i just do not have enough heat or balls to create the condition. i do want to understand what you are saying, especially since you talk about pressure. something that i am afraid off. if you say hydrolicly lift, is it when the hole chamber between plates are filled or when liquid jumps from one plate to the next? is it instantly or gradually? what will the sign be that you are approaching that condition?

Its flooding. Visible with sight glasses. Once there is enough liquid mass accumulation the lift occurs. Taller plate spacings are more forgiving.