Novice Homemade Whisky vs Commercial

[Woddy123]

After watching many still it videos and being enthused I would like to try and make my own whisky.
I enjoy the following commercial offerings Balvenie, Glenfiddich, Dewar's, Jamieson, Glenmorangie, Glen Grant etc and would aim to make something similar.

Is it realistic for a novice home distiller to make a comparable quality product to the above commercial offerings?

I understand that smaller barrels or wood chips in glass jars age faster than larger barrels used in commercial application.
How long does the home distiller need to age whisky for to produce a quality commercial equivalent product?


I was planning to buy a T500 and the two local home brew shops have provided conflicting advice, one strongly suggesting the pot still version and the other strongly suggesting the reflux version.

Still it has a couple of videos using the reflux T500 one being next step whisky which is what I was planning but after reading many of the posts here suggesting a pot still is better for whisky I am left further confused.

Any advice on reflux vs pot still T500 would be greatly appreciated.

[Saltbush Bill]

The folk that work in most home brew shops don't know the first thing about distilling, the thing they seem to do best is to sell you things that you dont need or want and give out bad information. Something to think about , people on forums are not being payed to promote one product or another, nor are they trying to sell you anything Home Brew shop owners and Youtubers often are.
A pot still or plated column is what you need fro making Whisky or Whiskey.

Is it realistic for a novice home distiller to make a comparable quality product to the above commercial offerings

Ive never tried to make Scotch Whisky but have been lucky enough to sample several made by other hobby distillers, One was quite good ........the other one was without doubt the best scotch style whisky Ive ever drunk, commercial or otherwise.
Short answer, its its quite realistic given some time , experimentation and patience.

Any advice on reflux vs pot still T500 would be greatly appreciated.

The Reflux still is for making vodka or neutral type spirits.......a Pot is for making flavoured drinks like scotch, whisky, or brandy.
Two very different tools for two very different jobs.

[dunluce]

Hi Woddy,

While a T500 might seem the simplest solution, I encourage you to take a look at building your own pot still to produce whiskey. There are a lot of different plans on this site, and even if you don't have experience (which I didn't) there is a lot of help here to find.

Better products made by better stills comes simply from more experience. And that can come from trial and error, or easier by reading and using people's experiences on here instead.

[Woddy123]

Thanks guys that is great to hear Bill it can be done.

Dunluce, that sounds like a great I will certainly check them out.
If I decided to go with an off the shelf still is the T500 a poor choice, is there any better off the shelf options?


This is what I was planning to try making first.

[shadylane]

...Is it realistic for a novice home distiller to make a comparable quality product to the above commercial offerings?

many of the posts here suggesting a pot still is better for whisky I am left further confused.

Any advice on reflux vs pot still T500 would be greatly appreciated.

Several drunken thought's come to mind.

We have the advantage of not being controlled by monetary gain.
Also, folks can learn more from many small runs than from one bigger run.
If a T-500 is what you have, make the most out of it.

[Saltbush Bill]

IMO you would be better to do as suggested and build your own pot still......however your choice your money.
After watching that Youtube vid I noticed one thing worth mentioning, Ive already said that I don't think a T500 reflux is a good choice to use for that job.
As you will see Jess says that a T500 is not really the still for the job because you have to shut off all of the reflux, to use it as a pot still to make whisky.
My own experience when trying to strip with a T500 when I first started out was that operating a T500 in pot mode " I tried stripping some Birdwatchers Wash" caused the black cap at the top of the still to get extremely hot, after that it leaked vapour and condensate from that point. If you turned the still head up side down to rinse the inside of the column with water after useing it, it dripped water from that area.
I have also heard of others having this same problem. THAT is my reason why I never recommend that T500s are used for stripping or spirit runs as pot stills.
This forum is about distilling safely....I for one wont promote what to me is dodgy practice.

[Woddy123]

IMO you would be better to do as suggested and build your own pot still......however your choice your money.
After watching that Youtube vid I noticed one thing worth mentioning, Ive already said that I don't think a T500 reflux is a good choice to use for that job.
As you will see Jess says that a T500 is not really the still for the job because you have to shut off all of the reflux, to use it as a pot still to make whisky.
My own experience when trying to strip with a T500 when I first started out was that operating a T500 in pot mode " I tried stripping some Birdwatchers Wash" caused the black cap at the top of the still to get extremely hot, after that it leaked vapour and condensate from that point. If you turned the still head up side down to rinse the inside of the column with water after use it, it dripped water from that area.
I have also heard of others having this same problem. THAT is my reason why I never recommend that T500s are used for stripping or spirit runs.
This forum is about distilling safely....I for one wont promote what to me is dodgy practice.

Thank you that is excellent information.

[NZChris]

Have you got any friends or acquaintances who have the build skills that you haven't got? Most of the work on my stills over the years have been done by people I worked or drank with. Most of the materials were scrounged from plumbers and scrap yards and cost me bugger all. Ask around at your local pub.

It took me many months of research to work out what I needed for what I wanted to make, (rum), then more months to find suitable materials for the build, but in hindsight, my rums age for far longer than it took me to research and build the still. Quality rum and whisky takes patience in the build, in the aging and in learning how to go about it.

The total spend on my still, including it's preheater, would be far less than you will pay for a T500 and it is better suited to making rum and whisky than a T500. Thirty odd years later, it has had few modifications, mostly for automation.

[Saltbush Bill]

You can find the bit about it not being the right still for the job at the 23-24 min mark.

[Trapped-in-Oz]

Pot and Copper………. even a modest Air Still can make credible whiskey.

[Sporacle]

I built my own pot and liebig, the info given by SBB and NZChris is always excellent and as Shady says you have to work with what you've got. I am really new at this and the best advice I can give is take your time, read heaps on here and don't be afraid to give something a go. Hey even it what you produce is not as good at first at least you made it, I take immense pleasure in sampling my products and understand the mistakes I made with my cuts when I drink them. I also had a bit of commercial AU 75 dollar bottle Bourbon on ice the other day and went...thats actually not that great

[SaltyStaves]

Jesse is doing a series on the T500 that to me can be summed up with a title of - 'So you've got a T500, lets make the best of it...'
Its not an endorsement as much as it is an acknowledgement that people will buy it and want to use it to make things that it was never designed to do. I think he is taking on the roll of the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff and I don't think he's shying away from admitting that.

If you haven't jumped, then you don't have to follow the Lemmings over the edge.. There will be many that got into this hobby knowing what the T500 can and cannot do and they will be perfectly happy making neutral and adding flavourings etc. If they want to move up, they find rabbit holes like HD. Unfortunately, there will be many who will fail out of the gate because they invested in the wrong gear and couldn't make it work. They abandon the hobby and never to return.

[NZChris]

Pot and Copper………. even a modest Air Still can make credible whiskey.

I discovered a long time ago that making large batches of anything that needs aging, like wine, likker, cheese, meats, etc., does take a bit more effort than making small batches, but the extra rewards from making the larger batches is substantial.

[Trapped-in-Oz]

the rewards from making the large batches is substantial.

Of coarse because there is more of it. However with small batches faster learning............. and what to do with large amounts of the inferior (first batches).

[NZChris]

the rewards from making the large batches is substantial.

Of coarse because there is more of it. However with small batches faster learning............. and what to do with large amounts of the inferior (first batches).

That is why I have accumulated a variety of different sized stills, including an Airstill. I have smaller stills that I use more often than the Airstill. A small batch of crap product from a failed experiment isn't a big deal.

[TwoSheds]

Woody,

I'm also just getting started and have barely run the still I assembled. You have probably already noticed that many other still options (Mile Hi, Brewhaus) are backordered for months, there may be some reality that the T500 may be the only prebuilt you can get "right now", but after failing to get a Brewhaus I decided to go a different direction.

I didn't want to half-ass it but didn't want to invest a fortune either. Also didn't have the time to do a complete custom build. I ended up with a Mile Hi 3 gallon kettle ($110 US) and a handful of tri clamp pipes form Glacier Tanks and the only thing I spent a little time making was a Liebig. Now I have a pot still for solidly under $300 that I can change up however I want it. Working on setting it up for reflux now so I can make some neutrals.

Lots of advice here, and even more opinions, but better than that lots of folks talking about their rigs and their experiences which have helped me a ton already! Good luck finding your first setup.

[NormandieStill]

As a recent arrival to this hobby, I second (third? fourth?) the suggestion to build your own. My still consists almost entirely of triclamp fittings attached to a 30L beer keg. I chose to build a condenser because I had the bulk of the parts to hand and am comfortable sweating copper joints. Had that not been the case I could have just bought a stainless condenser (I was briefly tempted by a shotgun, but the already high price was even higher when you added the fittings needed to channel the output into a collection jar). In the time that passes between placing the order on Aliexpress (or similar) and the parts arriving you can prep your first sugar wash ready for your sac run.

[Mr Sippy]

Have a look at an excellent sample of what others here have built.
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 50&t=66917

That may help you decide if you want buy or build. Or have additional questions.

[Setsumi]

i am following the discussion and am a bit late tp reply. original q was can you make GOOD product? yes, regardless what you use as bench mark.... but you need to be patient and selective in fermentation and running. in terms of equipment, building is rewarding for myself but i understand someone buying. if you buy, get the biggest you can afford that will suit the desired end product the best. just mind that good product comes with effort, multiple strip runs can be rewardingg. some have big budgets some smaller, no worries.

[jonnys_spirit]

As with anything like this a component based system will be more flexible.. Off the shelf boilers with adequate heater ports (2x desirable), drain port, fill port, column/riser port are available or DIY - then using TC fittings you can put together a reflux column or pot still riser as needed and expanding your system capabilities is a bit easier once you're set up to start producing...

Companion larger/smaller stills are also very nice as noted for more flexibility and experimentation...

Shooting for a larger electric heated 15 gallon keg (or milk can boiler) and CCVM reflux condenser is pretty popular and flexible... If you don't mind spending some cash you can get that going pretty quick and be set for a while until you go further down the rabbit hole... Or start with a smaller capacity boiler and you'll probably want to expand sooner because it takes quite a bit of was to make 2-3 gallons of product which you'll probably want to age and drink young...

The "All-In-One" units are more limited but they can certainly also be useful..

Cheers!
-jonny

[Deplorable]

Woody
Consider what your goal is and build/buy a rig that supports that goal keeping in mind the amount of work it will take to reach the goal with a given still.
There is a good reason so many members here run a keg boiler one of the larger capacity milk cans. Economy of Scale. You can make enough spirit to put up aging stock faster with a larger boiler and bigger fermenter.
If you're limited by space constraints or nosey neighbors, like an apartment dweller, a smaller still might suit you better.
Either way, you can build a better tool than the T500 for a comparable cost or less.
Read more, and try to decide exactly what it is you want to make, and how much of it, before you spend any money on a turn key unit.

[Yummyrum]

The still is just the tip of the whisky ice-burg .

You will also need to make and ferment the beer first .
So you will need some kind of Mash tun , a preferably insulated vessel in which you will add your Barley and strike water where it will convert the starches into sugars . You will need another big vessel ( could perhaps be the still boiler) to heat the strike water up to temp.

You may choose to buy pre-ground Malted barley or malt , dry and grind your own . Thats another rabbit hole and more equipment .

After Mashing your Barley and water, you need to sparge it to get all the sugars out of the wet grain . This can all be done with a brew bag or you may decide to have a false bottom in your mash tun .

You now need a fermenter . You could double up and use your Mash tun but its better to have a seperate fermenter so you are free to make another mash while the last one ferments .

By this stage a good pump will be your friend unless you like bucketing wash from fermenters and boilers . A pump is useful for sparging the grain and transferring strike water .

Now when it comes to distilling , yiu will do two types of run a faster stripping run and then a slow spirit run . To you need to have a way yo control the power to the boiler .Either adjustable gas regulator or a Power controller.
( note I did not say Temperature controller ) How ever a temperature controller is handy for getting your strike water ti the right temp for mashing .

You will need ti get yourself about 20 glass jars for collecting your spirit in before you do your cuts and then theres the barrel .

[subbrew]

Yummy, don't discourage him. Don't tell him he could buy a lifetime supply of good commercial liquor for less than what the equipment will end up costing as he glides down this greased rabbit hole

[Saltbush Bill]

Don't tell him he could buy a lifetime supply of good commercial liquor for less than what the equipment will end up costing as he glides down this greased rabbit hole

If you cant justify the cost your not drinking enough, or booze where you live is super cheap.
I lost track of the many thousands of dollars Ive saved in the time since I began this hobby.

[miletwo]

Yummy, don't discourage him. Don't tell him he could buy a lifetime supply of good commercial liquor for less than what the equipment will end up costing as he glides down this greased rabbit hole

I don't think I'd agree. My white dog tastes better (to me) than most $50 bottles/750ml. Aged is even better. If I made only 3 batches ever (roughly .6 quarts each on my small system) I'm at break even and then some.

[Woddy123]

The total spend on my still, including it's preheater, would be far less than you will pay for a T500 and it is better suited to making rum and whisky than a T500. Thirty odd years later, it has had few modifications, mostly for automation.

I hadn't considered building my own until now. I saw some youtube videos went to local home brew stores and the only still in stock was the T500.

Thanks for the suggestion, I am certainly looking at building my own still now.

[Woddy123]

Jesse is doing a series on the T500 that to me can be summed up with a title of - 'So you've got a T500, lets make the best of it...'
Its not an endorsement as much as it is an acknowledgement that people will buy it and want to use it to make things that it was never designed to do. I think he is taking on the roll of the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff and I don't think he's shying away from admitting that.

If you haven't jumped, then you don't have to follow the Lemmings over the edge.. There will be many that got into this hobby knowing what the T500 can and cannot do and they will be perfectly happy making neutral and adding flavourings etc. If they want to move up, they find rabbit holes like HD. Unfortunately, there will be many who will fail out of the gate because they invested in the wrong gear and couldn't make it work. They abandon the hobby and never to return.

Good point nothing purchased or built yet so I am open to all options.

[shadylane]

It's a good thing you stopped in.

[jonnys_spirit]

Yummy, don't discourage him. Don't tell him he could buy a lifetime supply of good commercial liquor for less than what the equipment will end up costing as he glides down this greased rabbit hole

At least this rabbit hole is greased with gallons of 125 proof whiskey aged and oaked by many (diverse) other whiskey lined rabbit holes lol.

Store bought can certainly be good - very good- but it’s not as exclusive as krafty home made spirits! You’ll hardly ever make the same bottle twice so sip it slow at the end and enjoy the rabbit hole!

Cheers!
-jonny

[Woddy123]

i am following the discussion and am a bit late tp reply. original q was can you make GOOD product? yes, regardless what you use as bench mark.... but you need to be patient and selective in fermentation and running.

Thanks quality is certainly the aim I am not looking for cheap booze.

I am happy to learn although if it is going to take 20 years of learning and many years of aging to produce a quality product I might have to give it a miss.