CCVM hardware sizing

[Schuetzenman]

I am looking at building a modular CCVM still based on a 1m long 3” column. Would necking down to 2” to this condenser work well? Thoughts on it? Takeoff will be a 1” over 3/4” Liebig I already have on a pot still that is threaded onto a 2” Tri clamp.

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/400034509 ... 640Q90.jpg

[Yummyrum]

I’m gonna say no .
I assume that you intend to slide the coil up and use the tee as the take off . This means that only half the coil will be condensing .

To get the advantage of 3” , you need run at a higher power than you would a 2” .
Typically a 2” column can handle a max of around 2kw before flooding and you can squeeze about 4kw into a 3” .

Now look at the specs for that condenser . It says that it can condense 3.5kw …and I’d agree thats probably about right for a 30cm single coil made of stainless. But remember thats the whole coil .

As you have only half of it to use ( the rest is sticking out the top) , its cooling capacity is only 1.75kw ….. basically less than you could run a 2” column on and certainly nowhere near what a 3” could take .

If the Tee was almost at one end , it would probably be an option .

[Saltbush Bill]

Other things to think about.
If you intend using it to make Neutral or Vodka type spirits you will need the packed section to be at least 1.5 or 1.6 long to make it worth while.
In short 1 meter isn't enough to get the full benefit from 3 inch.

[Schuetzenman]

Yeah I was considering the need to go higher, I have a 9ft ceiling in my garage so that is my limitation, it will be tight but I should be able to do 1.5m of column.

And for the edit I want to make gin so I will need to be able to make a neutral first.

[Setsumi]

i am with yummy and SBB. more packing length, regardless of end product goal. and the placing of the T in the condenser. but if you could add another straight section on top and the coil is sufficient there would be no worries to neck down from 3" to 2".

[Schuetzenman]

Alright so I calculated it out and the tallest column I can fit will be 1.3m should I consider going to a 2”column? Also read up on csst for reflux condensers and will likely go that easy, less $$ and seem to be one of the preferred options.

[Deplorable]

My 2 inch CCVM with 35 inches of copper packing and a sight glass under the take off T performs very well. 40 inches, or 1 meter, would be better. But no need to go any higher.

[S-Cackalacky]

You might like to look through DAD300's CCVM thread - https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... cvm+Dad300 . I remember there being some info in there somewhere about sizing a column. Length is also dependent on the type of packing you're using.

Good luck with it and stay safe.

[Setsumi]

Alright so I calculated it out and the tallest column I can fit will be 1.3m should I consider going to a 2”column? Also read up on csst for reflux condensers and will likely go that easy, less $$ and seem to be one of the preferred options.

height = purity. diameter = speed. stay with 3" go as tall as possible in packing height, regardless the product goal. but if flavour product is the goal, consider a plated column... although, recently most on here consider a potstill best for flavour products.

[Saltbush Bill]

My 2 inch CCVM with 35 inches of copper packing and a sight glass under the take off T performs very well. 40 inches, or 1 meter, would be better. But no need to go any higher.

That might work for a 2 inch, its not going to cut the mustard for a 3 incher.

[Yummyrum]

height = purity. diameter = speed. stay with 3" go as tall as possible in packing height, regardless the product goal.

True , but just to clarify . Diameter = speed .

Simply upsizing the diameter does not automatically assume you can takeoff at a higher rate .

What it means is that you can apply more boiler power before flooding due to the increased column area .
So you can scale up the operation and take off more at the same AVB as you did on a smaller diameter column .( Because you can now stick more power up its clacker)

(Not having a go at you Setsumi , you are correct , …. Just a clarification because some folk mis-interpret it .)

[Setsumi]

height = purity. diameter = speed. stay with 3" go as tall as possible in packing height, regardless the product goal.

True , but just to clarify . Diameter = speed .

Simply upsizing the diameter does not automatically assume you can takeoff at a higher rate .

What it means is that you can apply more boiler power before flooding due to the increased column area .
So you can scale up the operation and take off more at the same AVB as you did on a smaller diameter column .( Because you can now stick more power up its clacker)

(Not having a go at you Setsumi , you are correct , …. Just a clarification because some folk mis-interpret it .)

yes you are correct, lager diameter needs more power input.

[Schuetzenman]

My 2 inch CCVM with 35 inches of copper packing and a sight glass under the take off T performs very well. 40 inches, or 1 meter, would be better. But no need to go any higher.

Should I pack the sight glass as well? Is the purpose of the sight glass to see if the column is flooding?

[Deplorable]

My 2 inch CCVM with 35 inches of copper packing and a sight glass under the take off T performs very well. 40 inches, or 1 meter, would be better. But no need to go any higher.

Should I pack the sight glass as well? Is the purpose of the sight glass to see if the column is flooding?

Personally, I don't. I just pack my two spools, one 15 inches, and the other 20 inches. I have copper mesh packing right to the bottom of the glass.
I can look into the glass and observe the fluid state on the top of the mesh. I try to keep the liquid percolating right at the top of the packing, or just below it.

[shadylane]

Other things to think about.
If you intend using it to make Neutral or Vodka type spirits you will need the packed section to be at least 1.5 or 1.6 long to make it worth while.
In short 1 meter isn't enough to get the full benefit from 3 inch.

A column that's at least 20 times longer than it's diameter is the gold standard for one run and done.
But don't fret, You can always run it twice.

[shadylane]

I am looking at building a modular CCVM still based on a 1m long 3” column. Would necking down to 2” to this condenser work well? Thoughts on it? Takeoff will be a 1” over 3/4” Liebig I already have on a pot still that is threaded onto a 2” Tri clamp.

You could neck down the take off.
But having the entire CCVM still head 2"
Probably wouldn't work very well on top a 3" column.

[Saltbush Bill]

A column that's at least 20 times longer than it's diameter is the gold standard for one run and done.

Build it right the first time......how ever many times you choose to run it will always be a better still that makes a better product more easily.
Short cuts rarely pay off in this hobby.

[drmiller100]

A column that's at least 20 times longer than it's diameter is the gold standard for one run and done.
But don't fret, You can always run it twice.

Interesting. I found for 1/ inch marbles, 2 inches or larger diameter, 28 inches is barely maybe ok, but 36 inches is plenty for 2 or 3 inch column
Diameter didn't change much for height.

A cross section area tells you the difference in rates.
A 2 inch column goes twice as fast as a 1 inch. A 3 inch squared is 9, which is over twice as fast as a 2 inch (4 square inches. )
A 4 inch is almost twice as fast as a 3 inch (16 vs 9).

Like mentioned above, you have to change the heat.

[RC Al]

DRM have a look at this, its not accurate but it will give you ball parks and is good for looking at trends more than hard figures.
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/htm/calc ... x_calc.htm

[shadylane]

I am looking at building a modular CCVM still based on a 1m long 3” column. Would necking down to 2” to this condenser work well? Thoughts on it? Takeoff will be a 1” over 3/4” Liebig I already have on a pot still that is threaded onto a 2” Tri clamp.

You could neck down the take off.
But having the entire CCVM still head 2"
Probably wouldn't work very well on top a 3" column.

The more I think about it, the more I think I may have been wrong.
Somebody needs to put a 2" CCVM head on top a 3" column to find out how it works.

Posting with RC

[Sporacle]

Is there a reason it won't work, given that the T is 2 inch and it then attaches to the three inch column, I understand that there will be a restriction of the vapor path (would this not be the same as a dephlegmator on a flute, I mean in terms of a restriction of the vapor path) as long as the two inch RC can knock down the vapour from the three inch column it should work.
I'm with you Shady, it would be an interesting experiment, if only I had 1.5m of three inch laying around

[shadylane]

It's a damn shame our need for secrecy when home distilling.
If it weren't for that, I'd gladly loan stuff to folks I've met here to experiment with.

[Oatmeal]

I found an 1 1/4" ball valve in my parts, and was contemplating reducing a 3" column to a smaller tee for a vm before resizing to a 3" condenser....

It's interesting to contemplate.

Too small and I'd imagine the vapor velocity might choke the narrowed section or pull condensate into the takeoff.

Just need a longer RC for the 2" version?