Understanding plated columns before I build

[Sporacle]

viewtopic.php?p=7737324#p7737324

This is a link for the flare

[Ben]

Hebden asked for pics of how my plates sit. Ignore the silicon, it was the first gasket I grabbed.

[higgins]

I got my quote back for the inline sight glasses and other TC parts. Parts cost was $140, but shipping nearly doubled that ($129). I'm going to look for a few alternative sources before placing an order.

[squigglefunk]

Hebden asked for pics of how my plates sit. Ignore the silicon, it was the first gasket I grabbed.
0112231120a.jpg

0112231120b.jpg

ignore the one between the glass and the metal frame too !

[Ben]

Hebden asked for pics of how my plates sit. Ignore the silicon, it was the first gasket I grabbed.
0112231120a.jpg

0112231120b.jpg

ignore the one between the glass and the metal frame too !

Those are wrapped in PTFE~~~

[Oatmeal]

Dang shady, what an elegant downcomer solution!

[shadylane]

I got my quote back for the inline sight glasses and other TC parts. Parts cost was $140, but shipping nearly doubled that ($129). I'm going to look for a few alternative sources before placing an order.

Here's a $70 option.
https://stilldragon.com/3-sight-tower.html

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Looks like I'm a bit late but nevertheless...

Flutes are used to produce flavored product (whiskey, rum, etc) just like pot stills

Not "just like" pot stills. The plated columns have reflux, right? So, they push the fusels down almost to the very end of your run. It's great for fruit brandies, maybe not so bad for rums but as per the whiskeys... you will get them mostly "Canadian". But if you wish drink it white and/or shot after shot then it's okay.

The pot still kicks the fusels up all run long. But it tends to push them out more with heads if your 2nd run's load is up to 27-30% AbV.
And the pot motivates you to make your worts "cleaner": all that permanent skills growth, you know

Flutes can produce directly from the wash, eliminating stripping runs.

In that way you "cook" your yeast and constantly get new heads over the old ones. How to get rid of it all? Big commercial stiller boys do have way longer continuous columns with separate units for heads, product and tails. But we don't.
And the tails will pop up earlier, in comparison to the low wines' standard strength.

Flutes can compress heads and hold back tails

Yupp, they seem definitely more flexible working with heads.
But it saddens you to know that flutes compress tails with fusels. Some tails have yummies but alas, no separation expected here.

Just an opinion. Belonging to a guy who 7 or 8 years back decided that his pot still is a can of sh!t and became pretty cool with reflux systems. But after all he got a life and came back to the pots. And now he thinks that bokakobs or plates are probably not the best decision for some kinds of likker.

[Ben]

It's great for fruit brandies, maybe not so bad for rums but as per the whiskeys... you will get them mostly "Canadian".

Have you ever actually tasted anything from a plated still? I would bet you can't tell the difference between something that has been double pot stilled vs a flute on 1-2 plates. Zero difference between a plate and a thumper, unless the thumper is charged with wash, basically no difference between a plate and a second distillation.

Yes, you will get light whiskey if you run 6 plates, and reflux it to death , run excruciatingly slow take off speeds, make narrow heart cuts, but when operated to produce flavor they produce plenty, ABV can be similar to double or triple pot still as well, drive the still to produce the results desired.



Canadian blended whiskey is vodka blended to column still whiskey, it's a completely different animal.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Have you ever actually tasted anything from a plated still? I would bet you can't tell the difference between something that has been double pot stilled vs a flute on 1-2 plates. Zero difference between a plate and a thumper, basically no difference between a plate and a second distillation. I would argue you are more likely to get more flavor from a flute, less processing, fewer big heat cycles, no dilution of low wines etc.

Caps plates, of course, I tasted. But not 1-2 plates. Say, 4-5. Look, the pot still gives me ehm... 0.5 theoretical plate: I know how to get rid of the worst fusels in the case (in the very beginning). And I know how to get rid of them on 5 plates (they come up in the end). But 1-2 plates... on one hand, they don't allow fusels to mostly leave with heads, at the same time they don't strengthen it enuff to safely lock the fusels at the bottom. What should be the load strength for running it on 2 plates system: 50-60-70%, or even more?

Yes, you will get light whiskey if you run 6 plates, and reflux it to death , run excruciatingly slow take off speeds, make narrow heart cuts, but when operated to produce flavor they produce plenty, ABV can be similar to double or triple pot still as well, drive the still to produce the results desired.

If I run it faster then I need to collect it in 30 little jars. Cause if I ride the flavor on my full swing then I face the concentrated fusel sooner or later. And sh!t happens all of a sudden, as we know, somewhere in the middle of the run

"ABV can be similar"... once upon a time (and not so long ago) I stilled my product 5 times at once on my pot. Got hearts from 93% to 88%. It was more or less like 5 plates thing. And there were lots of fusels in my spent lees after the 4th and 5th repetitions. What led me to the idea that the pot (in Scotch or Irish manner, doesn't matter) does not so much remove fusels as it masks them. By the taste. Full-bodied taste and rich aroma. The plates have flavor, too. But it is different. More stripped, "peeled off". Maybe, your 1-2 plates "something" is just not so stripped, eh? It's a question, not statement.

Canadian blended whiskey is vodka blended to column still whiskey

Don't be so honest and direct on this forum

[higgins]

I got my quote back for the inline sight glasses and other TC parts. Parts cost was $140, but shipping nearly doubled that ($129). I'm going to look for a few alternative sources before placing an order.

Here's a $70 option.
https://stilldragon.com/3-sight-tower.html

Shady, the $140 was for several parts, including 3 4" sight glasses, 2 4x2 bowl reducers, tri clamps, gaskets, and some 2" TC parts.

I suspect that the shipping cost (FedEx, 13 kgs) may be padded a bit to offset the low cost of parts.

[shadylane]

Shady, the $140 was for several parts, including 3 4" sight glasses, 2 4x2 bowl reducers, tri clamps, gaskets, and some 2" TC parts.

I suspect that the shipping cost (FedEx, 13 kgs) may be padded a bit to offset the low cost of parts.

The shipping is kinda high.
Mostly I order everything from Amazon and get free shipping.

[elbono]

I got my quote back for the inline sight glasses and other TC parts. Parts cost was $140, but shipping nearly doubled that ($129). I'm going to look for a few alternative sources before placing an order.

It may be worth asking the supplier if they have other shipping options. I ordered some SPP from Poland and the slow boat option reduced shipping from 900 zloty to 95 zloty. I had to send them an email to find lower rates

But, it shipped in late November and just hit a US port yesterday.

[Ben]

What should be the load strength for running it on 2 plates system: 50-60-70%, or even more?

I'm not sure I understand "load strength". Do you mean the ABV of the hearts (keep) section? Usually mine ends up between 60 and 65% on 2 plates running an 8% beer.

If I run it faster then I need to collect it in 30 little jars. Cause if I ride the flavor on my full swing then I face the concentrated fusel sooner or later. And sh!t happens all of a sudden, as we know, somewhere in the middle of the run

I am not sure I have experienced this? I will occasionally have an off jar somewhere in late hearts, but isn't this the entire reason we do cuts? Although if I am honest I usually do rolling cuts on repeat recipes, and only change jars if I notice something significant going on in the taste or smell. I also think the quality of the ferment has a lot to do with what comes through in the still. I like to think I am better at the ferment part than the still part. At least I work a lot harder at fermenting than distilling.

Maybe, your 1-2 plates "something" is just not so stripped, eh? It's a question, not statement.

Well, I don't know. I do know that I don't notice a lack of body or flavor running at 2 plates, even compared to similar products, made by me, double or triple pot stilled (they are different though). I still like to run my Gaelic style whiskeys through the pot process, and let them hang out with wood a long time...

Maybe the answer is: both techniques can make a good whiskey. Neither one is wrong, preference or product style can dictate which to use. Scotch wouldn't be scotch without a Coffey still, Irish pot still wouldn't be what it is without a pot still. American styles can be whatever, as long as it hits the proof criteria. And us not-for-profits can make whatever we want.

Don't be so honest and direct on this forum

Sorry about that...

[VLAGAVULVIN]

I'm not sure I understand "load strength". Do you mean the ABV of the hearts (keep) section? Usually mine ends up between 60 and 65% on 2 plates running an 8% beer.

My bad, English poor, sorey

I meant the strength of our contents in the pot that we start with. For instance, the stripping load has the strength of the wort (7-9%), the 2nd run's low wines may have 25-30%, my own 3rd "strong" wines have 60-65% in the pot / before I run them.

I am not sure I have experienced this? I will occasionally have an off jar somewhere in late hearts, but isn't this the entire reason we do cuts? Although if I am honest I usually do rolling cuts on repeat recipes, and only change jars if I notice something significant going on in the taste or smell. I also think the quality of the ferment has a lot to do with what comes through in the still. I like to think I am better at the ferment part than the still part. At least I work a lot harder at fermenting than distilling.

I also did it, man. Dilution, sniffing, asking the missus to sniff it out, too. But... I stopped with it over there. Cause I need to find my time for bike, jogging, learning languages, being a good daddy, fixing up the house systems or "servicing" the car, visiting the office, finally

Quality of ferment is half done, you're right. So it saves a lot of time during the future spirit runs. I didn't care a lot when I was "refluxing". But the pot is a different animal, yeah. That's why my "Scottish" ferments are made just like an ordinary beer. No hops, no boiling but normally they are pasteurised and air-locked. But my on-the-grain Irishers are less accurate and more hurry-scurry. So I care more of their final acidity and the 3rd run's methods.

Well, I don't know. I do know that I don't notice a lack of body or flavor running at 2 plates, even compared to similar products, made by me, double or triple pot stilled (they are different though). I still like to run my Gaelic style whiskeys through the pot process, and let them hang out with wood a long time...

And you are right here, too. What I wanna say is: making sorta Glenmorangie on the flutes is more or less okay. But what if I go some Ardbeg, Lagavullin, Octomore? Yeah: I need to dive deeper in the tails to get all this peat. And if I try to "plate" them then I get fusels. Which are inseparable with early tails if being not kicked out mostly with fores of the 1st and the 2nd runs on the pot. The Gaelics are for the ones who can wait, right? I have some spirits oaking since 2015, 2017, 2019. Some of them are good enuff but could be even better. Drinking rarely, I can wait, why not...

Maybe the answer is: both techniques can make a good whiskey. Neither one is wrong, preference or product style can dictate which to use. Scotch wouldn't be scotch without a Coffey still, Irish pot still wouldn't be what it is without a pot still. American styles can be whatever, as long as it hits the proof criteria. And us not-for-profits can make whatever we want.

Sure. Tastes differ. Noses differ. What's more, one day one is in a mood to get it lighter, the other day he needs to go it hard. So, both techniques are OK.

Coffey still was originally Irish. But it could be used elsewhere, yeah. American styles are different, too. I had no possibility to check Alex Clark or FEW Spirits. But the mass production like Jim Beam is so fusels-stinky for me that I would never repeat it. Please, correct me: is it a column-stilled? On the other hand, vodka for me is the most boring booze ever. So I wouldn't make any AG on reflux if my friends didn't ask me sometimes about it.

Sorry about that...

Ehm... I was kidding! Or not? Knock-knock-knock...

It's okay

[n_plains_drifter]

Thanks sl, this is the first time I've seen this fact and hadn't taken it into account. Is this just for perf plates or for bubble plates as well?

The downcomer cup needs to be 2 times deeper than the liquid on top the plate.
If it's not, the vapor will take the easy route and go up the downcomer instead of bubbling up through the holes. When that happens, the downcomer will quit working, liquid can't drain down because of the rising vapor and the top plate will flood while at the same time lower plates will remain dry.

[shadylane]

Perf plates need 2 times and bubble caps need at least 1.5 times.

[bluefish_dist]

Perf plates need 2 times and bubble caps need at least 1.5 times.

I found even more worked better. I built a plate with a short trap and it would cause the plate to be bypassed.

[shadylane]

Trial and error makes a great teacher.
Ya learn more from mistakes than initial success.

[higgins]

Great to know this .. I would have found out the hard way

[Yummyrum]

Perf plates need 2 times and bubble caps need at least 1.5 times.

Recon you about right there Shady .My weirs are 20mm ( bath height ) and downcomer goes down to plate below . 10mm at the highest point . Copied Olddog a bit .

And off topic …. Just for the clean freaks , check out the nice Patina .


And also for shits and giggles , I snapped off these pics at the Bundaburg distillery last week . This is a retired stripping column . Its bubble caps .
OK so they have painted it and added lights . But check out the down comers. Check out the forced no bubble zones around the down comers . Hows the cast bubble caps?

Anyway you can get an idea about hieght of the down comers .

p

Also of interest , there was yet another old stripping column lying around that was maybe half the diameter of this fucker and it had the same cast bubble plate setup inside .

[shadylane]

Those look kinda like this.
Except theirs work better than mine did.

[Stonecutter]

Damn Yummy! Those are some great pictures. Thanks for sharing

[Yummyrum]

What size was that plate Shady ?

[ThomasBrewer]

My bad, English poor, sorey

I meant the strength of our contents in the pot that we start with. For instance, the stripping load has the strength of the wort (7-9%), the 2nd run's low wines may have 25-30%, my own 3rd "strong" wines have 60-65% in the pot / before I run them.

You should never have a strength in the pot of more than 40% ABV. Dilute anything stronger.

[shadylane]

What size was that plate Shady ?

It was one of the 4" plates I made while messing around and getting an education.
viewtopic.php?t=60486

[VLAGAVULVIN]

You should never have a strength in the pot of more than 40% ABV. Dilute anything stronger.

With all due respect, man... but it's all sounds like:

"the planet has a shape of a suitcase!"
"any proof?"
"no proofs, but i believe..."

As I understand it, I can’t wait for your arguments on the "over 40%" matter?

[EricTheRed]

You should never have a strength in the pot of more than 40% ABV. Dilute anything stronger.

With all due respect, man... but it's all sounds like:

"the planet has a shape of a suitcase!"
"any proof?"
"no proofs, but i believe..."

As I understand it, I can’t wait for your arguments on the "over 40%" matter?

It is a safety thing. <40% doesn't burn all that well.

BUT, my thoughts are if you are not being an idiot - you can run higher - when doing a gin, i'm typically around 48% - the % drops so quickly anyway once you start taking product.

The rules of this forum seem to indicate < 40% for safety

[Saltbush Bill]

, I can’t wait for your arguments on the "over 40%" matter?

You've been here long enough to know why., if you don't know the reasons by now then you need to start doing some searching and reading.

[Yummyrum]

I know when I had 9…… or was it 12 shots of Flaming Zambuccas (40%abv ….. yup it still burns at 40% ) at the Brother in laws Bucks night , that the last one missed the Cake hole and whiskers caught fire , it was much easier to put out than when my still caught fire and 70% abv was spurting out the pipe and into gas cooker . …

Nearly passed out blowing out the flames .

Lets pick a number 30, 40, 50 ,60 ,70 ….meh …. 40 is pretty safe ….. you want to go higher , sure , prepare .

Your house , your family .