First all grain attempt.

[utvol]

So yesterday I doubled the grain bill of HBB but decided to do it in my kettle in a bag to get the most conversion. So I started with 14 lbs of corn etc.

A iodine test showed with a full conversion, but my SG was just a big over 1.04 I was hoping for higher since I kept the corn at 190 for 1.5 hours.

12 gallons of water went in and only 6 came out. I did a sparge and got 2 more gallons out.

If I wanted to do an all grain without the bag how is the best way to get the wort off the grains? Do you put in a mash tun?

I have done a lot of reading but for the life of me I can't recall the best way to do this.

I have heard some all grains using 3 lbs of grain per lb of water. Hbb uses a bit under 2 to 1. i was thinking this was the reason for the lower abv?

Please forgive me if any of my terminology above is incorrect.

Thanks in advance.

Utvol

[still_stirrin]

… Do you put in a mash tun?

I do. But I may be in the minority here.

… I have heard some all grains using 3 lbs of grain per lb of water. Hbb uses a bit under 2 to 1. i was thinking this was the reason for the lower abv?

The lower OG simply means you need a bigger fermenter, or as NZChris says, “if you want more alcohol out of your fermenter, use a bigger fermenter”. A medium gravity (alcohol potential) will often produce better flavor because the yeast doesn’t need to “work as hard” to consume all the fermentables.

So, don’t fret over the opening gravity when compared to other brewers. This simply means you need to hone your brewing skills. And “brewing in a bag” will certainly affect the efficiency of conversion/extraction of the sugars. And corn is especially sensitive to this because you need good exposure of the corn to the active enzymes (carried in the liquid/wort).

Mashing in a “mash tun” will help you with extraction but it may make lautering more of a challenge. If you have to ask, then you haven’t experienced it yet.

How well did you mill your grains before mashing? Grind texture will affect extract efficiency too.
ss

[Newtothis]

If I wanted to do an all grain without the bag how is the best way to get the wort off the grains? Do you put in a mash tun?



Utvol

I ferment on the grain. Just dump the mash in a container and let it go. Then I use a stainless steel mop wringer and a mesh bag to remove the grain after it’s fermented. It’s a pain in the ass but it works. I suspect there may be a little more flavor coming out when you ferment on the grain, but I’m not certain. I also suspect you get slightly higher FG from fermenting on the grain as the enzymes are still working at breaking down the long chain carbohydrates.

I’m thinking of buying a commercial salad spinner and see if that will work to remove the finished mash from the grain as it is a complete pain in the ass and the one thing I absolutely hate doing. Maybe some type of drill operated centrifuge in a bucket, not sure but I’m working on some ideas.

[utvol]

I ground the corn pretty fine. the other grains i just used how they came in the mail. they were crushed.

How well did you mill your grains before mashing? Grind texture will affect extract efficiency too.
ss
[/quote]

[Setsumi]

I agree with SS. But I do not follow his protocol I follow Booner scasusl corn and I think Shineoncrasydismond has a similar thread. In short, boil water, dumb fine maize/corn meal snd HTP amylyse. Let cool down pitch Glucoamylase let cool pitch yeast and press after ferment. 20kg maize meal on 80lt boiling water = >1.07sg

[jonnys_spirit]

I do the same with large batches around 40-45 gallons. Boiling water + ground corn (meal consistency) + HTL enzyme. Easily takes 12h (maybe longer) for it to drop to 150*'ish for the saccharification enzymes so a bit longer than 2-3h. Then let it drop to 90*'ish before pitching yeast - another 12+hrs. Good long conversion takes a weekend and I'm pitching yeasties Monday morning. Might not need to let it all sit that long but that works for my workflow and a good full conversion

Cheers!
-j

[utvol]

And “brewing in a bag” will certainly affect the efficiency of conversion/extraction of the sugars. And corn is especially sensitive to this because you need good exposure of the corn to the active enzymes (carried in the liquid/wort).

[/quote

SS. I don't understand how brewing in a bag effects the efficiency of conversion / extraction of the sugars. Can you go into a bit more detail?

thank you

utvol

[jonnys_spirit]

And “brewing in a bag” will certainly affect the efficiency of conversion/extraction of the sugars. And corn is especially sensitive to this because you need good exposure of the corn to the active enzymes (carried in the liquid/wort).

[/quote

SS. I don't understand how brewing in a bag effects the efficiency of conversion / extraction of the sugars. Can you go into a bit more detail?

thank you

utvol

If the goo is all tied up in a bag the enzymes can get into the nooks and crannies as well not to mention the hot water and everything going on throughout the mash and subsequent ferment... Plenty of folks do brew in a bag tho.

Cheers!
-j

[Avalir]

Still to this day I'll strain my grains by twisting and squeezing them in the mesh brewing bags, can always get a mop bucket with a strainer or a fruit press to do that if it bothers you enough to put down the money.
As far as the amount of grains per gallon, if you're just using feed store corn and/or having difficulty getting the conversion you want, I personally might push it to 2.5lbs/gallon (that's usually my go to ratio). As a side note, high temp alpha amylase is a game changer with corn - I'd reccomend looking into it if you haven't already.
And making more or larger fermenters isn't difficult, just get some 5 gallon buckets at the hardware store or a trash can (be sure they're HDPE or LDPE of course - LDPE has a much lower heat tolerance, so careful with that one if you're dumping things in it hot).
I'd also agree with previous comments about lower yield not stressing the yeast and producing wonderful results - my yields I always shoot for 5-7%.

Also, if you go larger on the fermenter, can always move on to an on the grain fermentation. Sparging becomes easier and don't have to strain yourself with straining grains since alcohol is significantly more water soluble than sugars and starches.

Edit: For good conversion with corn, be sure to break up the clumps when the corn hits the water, clumps leave a lot of the inside untouched and don't convert.