How to best measure ABV of spirit coming off the still?

[welly]

Hey all,

Probably sounds like a simple/basic question but I'm trying to improve my process and find a more accurate method or way of measuring ABV as the spirit is coming off the still. I'm using a pot still (50L keg and an air still) which I've been using with a parrot. I understand they're useful but not entirely accurate, which I can understand.

I wondered what methods you all use to get a better measurement of the ABV coming off your still? Or does it especially matter about getting an accurate measurement? I suppose taste is key rather than ABV. But obviously it's useful to know that you're not going to end up with a 30% spirit if you're planning on ageing it on wood.

Any advice/tips would be welcome!

Cheers

[Bolverk]

I've got a $20 alcohol refractometor off Amazon, works good with just a few drops... Bad part is it only goes up to 80% so a hygrometer can still needed at times.

[robotfunk]

I use one of these https://www.stookwinkel.nl/product/west ... cohol-atc/ that only needs 2 drops to measure, so you won't get any smearing like you get with a parrot.

[bcook608]

Just fill up a glass graduated cylinder and test periodically with an alcohol meter. You already have the meter if you're using the parrot and you won't have smearing if you start your collection at the beginning of a new jar. Then you just pour the contents back into the jar and move on to the next.

Why are you wanting to know the spout ABV? Usually the only time ABV matters is when you're making your final blend that you're going to age.

When doing stripping runs, if you're using a single large collection vessel, place your alcoholmeter in the vessel and monitor your ABV that way. If you're making Whiskey/Bourbon you'll want to collect to around 30% for the total collection, which will get you a good entry proof after you run that for a spirit run. You can get a refractometer, but to me it seems to be a much less necessary item.

When doing spirit runs, you don't need to know the ABV of the spirit at the spout (some may disagree with me), but you might want to test each jar afterward and record it's ABV so you have that information in your notes.

Long story short is that the ABV during your run doesn't necessarily matter as much as the ABV at the end of your blend so you know how much you need to proof it down. Sometimes if you have a good blend and you collect into the sweetwater, you won't have to add any additional water to get a good proof and you won't lose any flavor.

[jonnys_spirit]

I rarely measure off the still on either a strip run or a spirit run. Strip run I collect in about 25 numbered jars and when I make my cuts i'll dilute, smell, feel, taste and decide the blend before measuring to determine any proofing I need to do to get it to 110-130pf depending on how I want to age/store the final cut...

I have some mini hydrometers though as well as a regular sized P&T hydro for measuring abv when I do want to measure.

Cheers!
-j

[bcook608]

I rarely measure off the still on either a strip run or a spirit run. Strip run I collect in about 25 numbered jars and when I make my cuts i'll dilute, smell, feel, taste and decide the blend before measuring to determine any proofing I need to do to get it to 110-130pf depending on how I want to age/store the final cut...

I have some mini hydrometers though as well as a regular sized P&T hydro for measuring abv when I do want to measure.

Cheers!
-j

I do believe Johnny meant Spirit run for the multiple numbered jars. Just to avoid newbie confusion

[jonnys_spirit]

I rarely measure off the still on either a strip run or a spirit run. Strip run I collect in about 25 numbered jars and when I make my cuts i'll dilute, smell, feel, taste and decide the blend before measuring to determine any proofing I need to do to get it to 110-130pf depending on how I want to age/store the final cut...

I have some mini hydrometers though as well as a regular sized P&T hydro for measuring abv when I do want to measure.

Cheers!
-j

I do believe Johnny meant Spirit run for the multiple numbered jars. Just to avoid newbie confusion

Thanks @bcook608 ! I did mean spirit run. Strip run I collect in a 5 or 6 gallon carboy but also don't typically measure abv until done...

One convenient way if you want to document is to put a thermometer in the lyne arm vapor path and the temp will correlate with an abv if you can find that chart around here. Or just don;t worry about it and forget about temp or abv and just run it

Cheers!
-j

[zed255]

For a quick spot check I use an alcohol refractometer. It isn't great at >60% ABV, but I only rely on it at lower ABV to monitor the end of a run.

For more accuracy I use my hydrometers, or my Anton Paar EasyDens for final proofing where I want the most accuracy.

[Yummyrum]

I stick a measuring cylinder under the spout when I want go take a reading .

But if ever I was to make a Parrot , I’d copy this design from Bourbon Junkie .
You close the valve , the parrot fills , take a reading , then open the valve and continue . No Parrot smearing . Not that a parrot would smear more than a Pot still though .

[welly]

Thanks all! Some very useful ideas and suggestions here. I'm going to order an alcohol refractometer as I reckon that'll be immediately (and fairly cheap) useful. I'm still in the part of my distilling journey where I'm taking quite small cuts (usually about 200ml) so I think the alcohol refractometer will be ideal for the small cuts I'm taking.

Cheers!

[Deplorable]

If you are collecting in 200 to 300ml samples, just pour the contents into a cylinder and float your hydrometer, take your reading and pour it back into the same jar it came out of. A hydrometer flask holds less than 200ml and it takes less than that to float the hydrometer.

[NZChris]

ABV at the spout isn't important for stripping runs or spirit runs.

For the stripping run, you should be aiming for an ABV for the whole collection. I use a glass receiver and float a hydrometer in it.

For the spirit run, you need to know the ABV in each jar for when you are choosing your heart cut, so measure the ABVs as you go and write them on the jars.

Don't rely on cheap refractometers for anything important, especially over 50%.

[Wildcats]

If you are collecting in 200 to 300ml samples, just pour the contents into a cylinder and float your hydrometer, take your reading and pour it back into the same jar it came out of. A hydrometer flask holds less than 200ml and it takes less than that to float the hydrometer.

This is exactly the way I do it. Works. I do have all the parts for a parrot. Just never soldered it up. Would like to try one with a valve and bypass.

[Deplorable]

I have a parrot, it's sat on my fireplace mantle in the living room. I think I used it twice. Its just a conversation piece.

[Saltbush Bill]

If you are collecting in 200 to 300ml samples, just pour the contents into a cylinder and float your hydrometer, take your reading and pour it back into the same jar it came out of. A hydrometer flask holds less than 200ml and it takes less than that to float the hydrometer.

This is exactly the way I do it. Works. I do have all the parts for a parrot. Just never soldered it up. Would like to try one with a valve and bypass.

My preferred method too, alcometer and tube.

[buchrob]

Refractomoter is best for rough instant measurement... no smearing. In many cases, the inability to read 80-96% will not be important.

Kegland (via AliExpress) sells a 3/4 scale hygrometer that will work with a smaller parrot or collection tube.

[ecir54]

I stick a measuring cylinder under the spout when I want go take a reading .

But if ever I was to make a Parrot , I’d copy this design from Bourbon Junkie .
You close the valve , the parrot fills , take a reading , then open the valve and continue . No Parrot smearing . Not that a parrot would smear more than a Pot still though .
IMG_8085.jpeg

thanks yummy accidentally deleted that pic and forgot where it came from

[PLAYMP]

For the spirit run, you need to know the ABV in each jar for when you are choosing your heart cut…

Do you really “need” to know? Or is it more understanding that when your abv starts a rapid descent over the course or a jar or two that it’s a tip off you’re in tails.

I have only been measuring abv for the purposes of proofing down at this point and do cuts by taste/smell but now I’m second guessing myself.

[NZChris]

For the spirit run, you need to know the ABV in each jar for when you are choosing your heart cut…

Do you really “need” to know? Or is it more understanding that when your abv starts a rapid descent over the course or a jar or two that it’s a tip off you’re in tails.

I have only been measuring abv for the purposes of proofing down at this point and do cuts by taste/smell but now I’m second guessing myself.

Yes. You should dilute your samples before tasting, so you need to know the ABV to be able to estimate how much water to add.

[Dougmatt]

I measure off the still on strips to know when to stop. I measure off the still on spirits, because it’s interesting to me to have more data points.

I use a refractometer as others have suggested to avoid smearing. Accuracy isn’t great for many reasons especially temperature variance, but curve precision is pretty good especially when doing the same recipe over and over to look for possible tails cuts etc.

[Stonecutter]

I’ll dump a P&T hydrometer into a graduated cylinder filled with 200ml of the shit throughout a run.

[Boda Getta]

Many of the "old school" guys eschew the use of thermometers or hydrometers when distilling and claim to go only by taste, smell and feel. I have taken a different approach for the last 8-10 years. I run a pot still and in my spirit runs I place a digital thermometer at the top of the column and a hydrometer in a parrot. I collect in pint jars to about 75% full. I have a strip of masking tape on each jar and record the no. jar, temp and ABV and place them in order in the jar box. My thing is how can you have too much information of what's going on during the run. I understand that if the liquid coming off the parrot is hot that the ABV will be elevated and there is small amount of mixing in the parrot reservoir so either are 100% accurate. But the important thing is that there is an progression and it should be consistent. I've done so many of these things that I can look at the temp and pretty much tell you the proof or vice versa and I usually know exactly what to expect. It just gives me a little better present of mind. A couple of years ago I had a small problem with the cooling water and could tell by the first jar something was off. Several times in the past the ABV/Temp progression was not as expected and turns out I was running too fast and having excessive schmearing. With this set up, easy to recognize and to correct.
Just the method I use... your mileage could vary.

BG

[welly]

Thanks again for the helpful replies! Loads of useful ideas and approaches for me to try. Cheers all, big help!

[NZChris]

Doing multiple stripping runs from the same wash, I've taken to only watching the ABV in the collection vessel for the first strip. When it reaches my desired ABV, I record the temperature of the remaining wash, then shut down, recharge and do the next strip. For the rest of the strips there is no need to check ABV, as shutting down at the same temperature will get so close to the target that checking isn't worth the bother.

Spirit runs, record everything. Eventually, your notes will become your distilling bible and will be more valuable than anything posted here.

[Wildcats]

Great advice. Notes are very important for repeatability. I have a notebook I keep track of everything.