Backset question

[Mr_Beer]

I am working on a recipe based on "Jimbo" recipe for 100% All Malt Whiskey. viewtopic.php?t=36177

In the recipe he discusses using backset -- keeps it frozen and RTG.

As I researched the topic of backset the general notion is that backset will help lower the ph of the mash to make our yeast friends happier.
Further reading seems to indicate that the desired (by the yeast) ph of the mash should be about 5.1 to 5.6 and the backset lowers the mash ph to accommodate that goal.

And then there are other articles that discuss not using backset -- https://vinepair.com/articles/why-dist ... r-mashing/
Some discussions in this forum mumbles about contamination of the backset and other issues. viewtopic.php?t=39683

My freezer is full and my wife is frowning at the notion of saving backset in place of all her home grown produce.

Is there any reason not to use phosphoric acid in appropriate proportions to accomplish the backset goal of lower ph prior to pitching?

[Saltbush Bill]

Why do you need so much frozen backset ? What size mashes are you making?

[Yummyrum]

Sure you could use Phosphoric to pH adjust .
However , if you do use backset , you don’t need to freeze it . Just store it in mason jars like you would any other preserves . Piping hot into sterile jars, lid on tight.

[higgins]

+1 to Yummy

I just drain the first two quarts of backset into clean mason jars and cap them.

Then I run the remaining backset thru an immersion chiller in the next bucket of wash to be stripped, preheating the wash. I use 1/3 of remaining backset thru each of 3 buckets and it gets the wash up to about 135F. This also cools the backset so it won't damage PVC plumbing.

---

My water has adequate ca and mg, and the alkalinity (buffering capacity) is very low. So it is not resistant at all to changes in pH.

Malted barley is acidic and will tend to lower the pH into the correct range for me, unless I use a brown or dark malt - then it will drop too much and I'll need to add CaCO3 to compensate. So if I used backset to lower the pH I'd have to add CalcCarb to raise the pH - kind of senseless.

But if you're water has a lot of alkalinity you may need to reduce pH some.

Corn doesn't have the acidic property of malt so I use backset when I make corn based spirits to get the pH down.

[8Ball]

+1 on previous advice given.

Obviously, backset will: add flavor, reduce pH and adjust mashing temperature. I typically use 12% by volume, but not in every recipe.

[Beefer]

I spent a while on smaller rum ferments to build up some generations of flavour (thanks SBB) but wanted to skip the build up when it warms up enough here to kick off the rum fermenting again. I drained the hot backset from my last stripping run straight into one of the molasses cubes, popped the lid on and turned it over to make sure the whole interior was sterilised. Its been sitting quietly for months now - same as the no chill brewing method and no freezer space used.

[howie]

only the other day i put on 2 x 27l washes.
i did not test my filtered water, as i was adding backset later, but it is always about PH 8
i had only used 3.5l of backset in each wash and i was stood there with my citric acid in hand, testing the mix.
turned out it had gone down to PH 3.8!
i ended up adding calcium carbonate instead.
that's a big shift considering PH is not linear, i've no idea what the PH of the backset was (i'll be testing it next time out of interest)

[MooseMan]

I am working on a recipe based on "Jimbo" recipe for 100% All Malt Whiskey. viewtopic.php?t=36177

In the recipe he discusses using backset -- keeps it frozen and RTG.

As I researched the topic of backset the general notion is that backset will help lower the ph of the mash to make our yeast friends happier.
Further reading seems to indicate that the desired (by the yeast) ph of the mash should be about 5.1 to 5.6 and the backset lowers the mash ph to accommodate that goal.

And then there are other articles that discuss not using backset -- https://vinepair.com/articles/why-dist ... r-mashing/
Some discussions in this forum mumbles about contamination of the backset and other issues. viewtopic.php?t=39683

My freezer is full and my wife is frowning at the notion of saving backset in place of all her home grown produce.

Is there any reason not to use phosphoric acid in appropriate proportions to accomplish the backset goal of lower ph prior to pitching?

I may be simplifying it a bit too much but as far as I'm concerned, backset is traditionally used for 3 reasons, not necessarily all at once obviously.

1. Lower the pH
2. Make use of the thermal energy in hot backset to get the next ferment to pitching temp
3. Add flavour to generational mashes

If you just need to lower pH, you could use any appropriate organic acid.

[Saltbush Bill]

It's known to do all of the above MM

[Mr_Beer]

Thank you to everyone who responded. I definitely appreciate it.

I was focused on the recipe related issues but the answers indicated another concern -- saving the latent heat of the backset for preheating the next stripping run. Currently I do not have any pumps that I could use for a reverse heat exchange process. More equipment and related storage...

Technically there was agreement that phosphoric acid would solve the ph problem.

Others indicated that I could save the backset with mason jars and various canning processes to ensure no contamination. More equipment and related storage...

Others indicated there was some contribution to flavor but it was not quantifiable. As a relative distilling newbie, my focus is on the process. Tweaks to recipes and associated adjustments is probably a year away.

And I learned that my freezer space allocation used for some grains and hops, has been 'frozen' by my wife in favor of her produce. Everyone here understands that aspect...

Thanks again.

[MooseMan]

Thank you to everyone who responded. I definitely appreciate it.

I was focused on the recipe related issues but the answers indicated another concern -- saving the latent heat of the backset for preheating the next stripping run. Currently I do not have any pumps that I could use for a reverse heat exchange process. More equipment and related storage...

Hey Mr_Beer

When I referred to using the latent heat from backset, I was referring to it's use to start the next ferment, not to use it to preheat the next strip.

What I tend to do, as I'm sure many others do also, is get all of the prep work for putting on my next ferment done, whilst at the still.

That way, I'm maximizing my time, and also using at least some of the heat energy from the distillation by using a portion of what's left in the boiler at the end, to get the aforementioned ferment up to perfect yeast pitching temp without having to boil more water.


But, if you have the ability/time to do 2 strips back to back, an easy way to pre heat is, run the absolute minimum flow of water to condense product so that the water coming out of the condenser is hot, and route the water outlet from your condenser, through a coil of copper (I'm sure you have a wort chiller, based on your name!) submerged in the second strip.
Works really well.

Wort chiller

First strip heating second