Looking for reflux still advice

[welly]

Hey all,

So I've been happily using my pot still for almost 12 months now and have been getting some nice results. I've been thinking about making neutral spirits with the intention to start making gin. I don't have the time, tools, skills or, to be frank, interest in making a reflux still from copper parts/tubes/etc. so am looking for some advice on parts that I could buy to put together a column that perhaps I can reutilise my condenser that I've been using with my kettle. See attached!

Does anyone have any recommendations/advice on whether the condenser can be used in a reflux/column still configuration? (it has a 2" tri clamp ferule on the end).

Really, just looking for advice on where to start with building a reflux still from off the shelf parts, preferably.

Cheers!

[NZChris]

Build a Bokakob. Get copper from your local scrappy, tri-clamps online, then get a local tradie to build it for you.

That said. most of my gin is made using double pot stilled base spirit, like Shady's SS. My Bokakob is used to tidy up the feints.

[Salt Must Flow]

A reflux still use a product condenser. You can use your product condenser on a reflux still.

What you need is an adequate length column, packing, a reflux condenser and a reflux head. VM, CCVM, LM, CM, etc... are all different types of reflux stills.

Adapting that condenser to a still design you choose could be a consideration.

[welly]

That said. most of my gin is made using double pot stilled base spirit, like Shady's SS. My Bokakob is used to tidy up the feints.

Ok, maybe that's the way forward. I'm generally not interested in making neutral spirits other than for making gin. Perhaps I should give your method a go and see how I get on. But might take your advice about the Bokakob too! Thanks Chris, appreciate your advice!

[welly]

A reflux still use a product condenser. You can use your product condenser on a reflux still.

What you need is an adequate length column, packing, a reflux condenser and a reflux head. VM, CCVM, LM, CM, etc... are all different types of reflux stills.

Adapting that condenser to a still design you choose could be a consideration.

Thanks! Will do a bit more reading!

[The Baker]

Hi, Welly,
As Chris said, you can just use the pot still.
And the suggestion about a local tradie is good. But...
I did that without looking into it carefully enough.
The fellow did a terrible job of a lot of the work, and charged like a red bull.

Geoff

[welly]

Hi, Welly,
As Chris said, you can just use the pot still.
And the suggestion about a local tradie is good. But...
I did that without looking into it carefully enough.
The fellow did a terrible job of a lot of the work, and charged like a red bull.

Geoff

I think much of why I was/am seeking a reflux still is as I understand it gin needs to be made from a base spirit that's been distilled to over 96% which is obviously a lofty goal in this hobby, especially with a pot still (would it even be possible?).

But at the end of the day, it's going to be my drink, I won't be selling it so does it matter? Probably not. If I distill and blend a wash to 50% or more ABV and then run it through the still again with the botanicals in the vapour trail then I've got, as far as I'm concerned, gin. So I suppose that's probably good enough for me. I'm going to get either Shady's sugar shine or Ted's fast fermenting vodka into the fermenter and make myself some gin!

[Boozewaves]

As others have said you can make vodka / neutral for gin in a pot still . I did not have time to do a full days reflux run once so I just ran the Shady's low wines through the still set up as a potstill and the results were good .

But if you still wanted to it could be done quite easily . I'd suggest getting whoever's making it to cut down where the red line is

and attach 2 ferrules , one on either side of the cut .
Then it could be joined back together as it is with a triclamp for pot distillation but also the condenser end could attach by another triclamp to a tee piece on a reflux column .

this thread is definitely worth a look if you haven't seen it yet , it can give you an idea of what's possible with off the shelf pieces from ebay or aliexpress viewtopic.php?t=62101

[MooseMan]

If you want gin Welly, it would definitely be advisable to make a good few experimental batches in a small still, to find out how to make a decent gin that you and the wife/friends like, before running a big batch in your main still.

Not sure how big that keg is, but even at minimum volume, that would be a lot of gin to choke down if you don't really like what it puts out!

Which means, as you don't have any interest in making or even modding a still, you'll have to buy something or take a big chance, on a big batch that could come out not great at all.

But yes I do think you could get a very mild tasting spirit from sugar wash stripped, spirit run then watered down and run again.

I'm super happy with what my CCVM produces (Very heavily influenced by Kims build!) as a gin base and for doing macerations etc, so I'm glad I made the not inconsiderable effort to build it. I get through a pretty surprising amount of neutral!

[Saltbush Bill]

I think a couple of things in this thread need to be pointed out in case Newbies are reading this and think whats said in places is normal procedure.

most of my gin is made using double pot stilled base spirit,

Chris it seems to me that you are a part of about 2% of the hobby distilling community, here and elsewhere, that like to use a less than clean base spirit to make gin. The other 98% of people seem to prefer to use the cleanest neutral they can get their hands on/ make.

As Chris said, you can just use the pot still.

As others have said you can make vodka / neutral for gin in a pot still .

Yes you can probably make a Vodka type product with a pot still , if you have no better way of doing it and want to spend a lot of time doing it.
As for making neutral with a pot I'm calling BS.
Do you really think people would go to all of the trouble of making packed columns such as VMs LMs and CCVMs if it where as simple as just running some wash through a pot still a couple of times and making some cuts?
If only it was that easy, we would all only have to own one still, there would be no need for all of those other designs.

I get through a pretty surprising amount of neutral!

Agree, once your set up properly to make good neutral its surprising how much of it you can go through, making Gin, Ouzo, Firepiss, Limonchello, Coffee Liquore and Punkins Muck are just a few of the ways mine gets used up.

[welly]

If you want gin Welly, it would definitely be advisable to make a good few experimental batches in a small still, to find out how to make a decent gin that you and the wife/friends like, before running a big batch in your main still.

Not sure how big that keg is, but even at minimum volume, that would be a lot of gin to choke down if you don't really like what it puts out!

Which means, as you don't have any interest in making or even modding a still, you'll have to buy something or take a big chance, on a big batch that could come out not great at all.

But yes I do think you could get a very mild tasting spirit from sugar wash stripped, spirit run then watered down and run again.

I'm super happy with what my CCVM produces (Very heavily influenced by Kims build!) as a gin base and for doing macerations etc, so I'm glad I made the not inconsiderable effort to build it. I get through a pretty surprising amount of neutral!

I've got an air still which I could certainly use for some experimental batches and along with that 50L keg I've got a 20L boiler I can use with the same condenser so fairly well sorted for doing all sizes of batches! Perhaps run batch through the air still to get me started.

Been having a bit of a Google for ccvm stills and plans and have found some plans that utilise triclamp tubes which I could easily put together so that's a thought and perhaps I'll not dismiss the idea of putting a ccvm together.

Cheers!

Edit. Here's the plans I found. Any feedback would be appreciated!

[Saltbush Bill]

Thats a VM, not a CCVM, .....A CCVM is probably an easier build than that.

[Salt Must Flow]

That looks like a VM (Vapor Management) still to me. I can't tell if that reflux condenser extends below the vapor take-off or not. A 2" VM doesn't need a 2" gate valve. You can use a reducer between the Tee and use a 1" Gate Valve.

Some might argue that a 2" valve will provide a lower reflux ratio if you strip with reflux in comparison to using a 1" valve. That's true, but you could just remove the valve entirely so that argument doesn't really matter. I use a 1" gate valve on my 3" VM so technically it could be possible that 1" is a bit larger than a 2" VM needs. 1" seems like the right size to me is all.

[Saltbush Bill]

That looks like a VM (Vapor Management) still to me.

My mistake ...typo. Edited

[welly]

That looks like a VM (Vapor Management) still to me. I can't tell if that reflux condenser extends below the vapor take-off or not. A 2" VM doesn't need a 2" gate valve. You can use a reducer between the Tee and use a 1" Gate Valve.

Some might argue that a 2" valve will provide a lower reflux ratio if you strip with reflux in comparison to using a 1" valve. That's true, but you could just remove the valve entirely so that argument doesn't really matter. I use a 1" gate valve on my 3" VM so technically it could be possible that 1" is a bit larger than a 2" VM needs. 1" seems like the right size to me is all.

Ok, I think I linked to the wrong image. Was looking at this build:

https://imgur.com/gallery/zua9T

There's a bit more info here:

[Salt Must Flow]

Have you familiarized yourself with the difference between a CCVM and a VM? More specifically how you control the vapor take-off.

[welly]

Have you familiarized yourself with the difference between a CCVM and a VM? More specifically how you control the vapor take-off.

Not fully, although I've been watching this



and started reading this thread: viewtopic.php?t=87218

I think I get the gist of it but need to do a bit more reading.

[Salt Must Flow]

With a CCVM you have to manually raise and lower the reflux condenser to control the output rate. I've seen people wedge something through the coil to make it stay where they want it. Yeah it's simple to build, but that method of operation would drive me nuts.

With a VM, you just open/close the Gate Valve. Some use a ball valve. If you make an index mark, you can repeatedly make 1/8 turn repeatability. Some make marks on ball valves too.

Not all still designs work or function the same.

[Saltbush Bill]

I think you will find better and more accurate information about CCVM stills on this forum rather than on redit and similar sites.
Not sure if your aware of it but the earliest and best versions of most packed reflux stills were thought out and developed on, and by members of this forum, they then spread further afield to other hobby distilling net sites.
The info on these subjects can sometimes be sketchy or incorrect as it works its way down the chain of distilling sites.
Here is some CCVM reading for you.
viewtopic.php?t=64922
viewtopic.php?t=66393
viewtopic.php?t=62906
viewtopic.php?t=86133
viewtopic.php?t=80118
viewtopic.php?t=65801
There is much much more if you do a search.

[MooseMan]

started reading this thread: viewtopic.php?t=87218

I think I get the gist of it but need to do a bit more reading.

You're best bet is spend a bit of time reading Welly, you'll soon come to a decision that's best for you, on what is the best direction to go in for making a neutral, or at least a mild/weak tasting base spirit for a gin.
Depends how serious you wanna get I suppose!

If you have an air still then you're sorted for gin experiments, (Go read the OEG thread, or as much of it as you can!) then once you arrive at a recipe that you are confident to scale up, your 20l will serve you very well, sorry I wasn't aware that your had other stills from your initial post.

You've said you don't have the skillset or interest in making anything, but can I ask, if that's the case are you happy enough and well off enough, to just buy what is needed?

[welly]

I think you will find better and more accurate information about CCVM stills on this forum rather than on redit and similar sites.
Not sure if your aware of it but the earliest and best versions of most packed reflux stills were thought out and developed on, and by members of this forum, they then spread further afield to other hobby distilling net sites.
The info on these subjects can sometimes be sketchy or incorrect as it works its way down the chain of distilling sites.
Here is some CCVM reading for you.
viewtopic.php?t=64922
viewtopic.php?t=66393
viewtopic.php?t=62906
viewtopic.php?t=86133
viewtopic.php?t=80118
viewtopic.php?t=65801
There is much much more if you do a search.

Cheers SBB! I'll have a good read through those.

[welly]

With a CCVM you have to manually raise and lower the reflux condenser to control the output rate. I've seen people wedge something through the coil to make it stay where they want it. Yeah it's simple to build, but that method of operation would drive me nuts.

With a VM, you just open/close the Gate Valve. Some use a ball valve. If you make an index mark, you can repeatedly make 1/8 turn repeatability. Some make marks on ball valves too.

Gate Valve Indicator.jpg


Not all still designs work or function the same.

Ok, probably worth looking into a VM still too. I'll do lots of reading before I commit myself to something. I'm in no particular rush anyway, got my hands full with rum and whisky projects!

[welly]

started reading this thread: viewtopic.php?t=87218

I think I get the gist of it but need to do a bit more reading.

You're best bet is spend a bit of time reading Welly, you'll soon come to a decision that's best for you, on what is the best direction to go in for making a neutral, or at least a mild/weak tasting base spirit for a gin.
Depends how serious you wanna get I suppose!

If you have an air still then you're sorted for gin experiments, (Go read the OEG thread, or as much of it as you can!) then once you arrive at a recipe that you are confident to scale up, your 20l will serve you very well, sorry I wasn't aware that your had other stills from your initial post.

You've said you don't have the skillset or interest in making anything, but can I ask, if that's the case are you happy enough and well off enough, to just buy what is needed?

Definitely not that well off but I could probably stretch to the various tri clamp parts over the course of a few months until I've got what I need! In the meantime, I'll muck around with the air still and the smaller still and see what kind of result I get. The OEG thread looks pretty comprehensive!

Cheers Mr Moose!

[Bradster68]

I think you will find better and more accurate information about CCVM stills on this forum rather than on redit and similar sites.
Not sure if your aware of it but the earliest and best versions of most packed reflux stills were thought out and developed on, and by members of this forum, they then spread further afield to other hobby distilling net sites.
The info on these subjects can sometimes be sketchy or incorrect as it works its way down the chain of distilling sites.
Here is some CCVM reading for you.
viewtopic.php?t=64922
viewtopic.php?t=66393
viewtopic.php?t=62906
viewtopic.php?t=86133
viewtopic.php?t=80118
viewtopic.php?t=65801
There is much much more if you do a search.

Thanks for those links Bill. That'll sure help me out as well