Buy vs Convert keg

[Sean_Jeremy]

Used keg market is a little dry in my area. Lowest I've seen for a 1/2 bbl is $50 going up to $100.
We just moved about 2 hours away to a much smaller town, so I don't know anyone in the area capable of welding yet which has got me thinking this https://www.gwkent.com/15-gallon-semi-k ... 0nEALw_wcB is worth giving some thought. With shipping is just under $200 dollars. Should I expect to be able to pay less than $100 to purchase the above fittings and get someone to TIG them? I'm willing to drill/cut holes, but I don't love the idea of compression ferrules unless the handful of times I used them brewing wasn't representative of their nature. Leaks are lame.
I'd be willing to try soldering, I just worry it's a far less sturdy connection from a big clunky vessel that will get moved around everytime it's being used.

Just looking for some back of the napkin figures.

[elbono]

$50 is a good price for a unmolested keg and fittings probably won't double that but a good Tig welder is going to be expensive. I'm guessing but a $100 minimum wouldn't be surprising unless you get the good buddy price.

That is a very good deal on the Kent keg. The only gotcha I see is the racking arm, make sure it doesn't need a silicone gasket to seal. You can buy Teflon gaskets for the triclamps.

Lots of people here use soldered fittings on kegs but I'm not one of them. I went the hardest route I could find, bought a Tig welder and learned to use it. Soldered connections won't be as strong as a good Tig weld but may be all you need.

Make sure you can get the heater you want with a 1 1/2" triclamp fitting. Price out a 4" tc reducer to avoid surprises, they can get pricey but a 4 x 2 on Amazon is less than 35 USD.

[Swedish Pride]

Have to agree with elbono, looks a good deal.

Unless you like to make stuff that is.
Soldering ss is an adventure in its own but fun to learn and serves you well further down the line in this hobby.

[Salt Must Flow]

Have you looked it up to see where the closest welding supply company is? They usually know of someone who welds.

Shop around and you'll see that even 6" Tri-Clamp ferrules really aren't expensive. To me, 4" was just ... meh. I love 6" on my boilers (personal preference). I also like to have a fill port on top of my keg too. When I built my boilers I put the 6" ferrule top dead center and a 3" fill port shifted below it. If I could go back in time, I'd reverse it. I'd put the 3" ferrule top dead center (because that's my column/riser diameter) and I'd have the 6" as the fill port. If I did it like that, I wouldn't require any reducers.

I really don't like that racking arm on that keg in your link. It makes for a less than ideal bottom drain. I've had bottom drains similar to that before and you may not realize this until you see it for yourself. A bottom drain like that REQUIRES that you connect it to a hose or have a long spigot/nozzle dangling below the keg otherwise it will NOT fully drain. It behaves like a siphon, not an actual drain. If the keg is empty and you go to rinse it out, it will just fill up with water until it can complete the siphon and ONLY then will it drain. Now look at what gaggle of fittings you'll require, the ball valve and everything you'll need to buy to connect to that keg just to have a less than ideal drain.

You can solder a bottom drain really easy and everything needed is readily available and relatively inexpensive. I soldered mine because that's something I can easily do myself (no TIG welding needed). There's more pics on this page.

The one thing that keg has going for it is the two ports for heating elements. It appears as though the ferrules are welded in at an angle. That should keep the elements from touching eachother. That's smart. The thing is, you really only need 1 element. 2 elements is a luxury you may never feel the need to have. I only have one element in my keg boilers.

[Sean_Jeremy]

$50 is a good price for a unmolested keg and fittings probably won't double that but a good Tig welder is going to be expensive. I'm guessing but a $100 minimum wouldn't be surprising unless you get the good buddy price.

That is a very good deal on the Kent keg. The only gotcha I see is the racking arm, make sure it doesn't need a silicone gasket to seal. You can buy Teflon gaskets for the triclamps.

Lots of people here use soldered fittings on kegs but I'm not one of them. I went the hardest route I could find, bought a Tig welder and learned to use it. Soldered connections won't be as strong as a good Tig weld but may be all you need.

Make sure you can get the heater you want with a 1 1/2" triclamp fitting. Price out a 4" tc reducer to avoid surprises, they can get pricey but a 4 x 2 on Amazon is less than 35 USD.

I may be able to call in some favors to my old buddies at the brewery in regards to buying fittings. We used to occasionally purge old ones.

I think I'm with you in wanting welded fittings over soldered. In my time brewing I've seen plenty of welds fail at bad times; I certainly don't want to increase those chances by going with solder.

[Sean_Jeremy]

Have to agree with elbono, looks a good deal.

Unless you like to make stuff that is.
Soldering ss is an adventure in its own but fun to learn and serves you well further down the line in this hobby.

I do like to learn new skills and make stuff, but I think my focus right now would be better spent on the actual process of distilling and not manufacturing of equipment. Hell, I'd love to have a TIG welder, it's just not in the cards financially right now.

[Sean_Jeremy]

Have you looked it up to see where the closest welding supply company is? They usually know of someone who welds.

The two nearest supply houses are 40 minutes and an hour away. I'm sure there's someone in the area that welds, I just have no idea what they'd charge me.

Regarding the racking arm: I'm guessing the design comes from their familiarity with brewing equipment. That'd be a pretty common (and preferred) set up since you'd often be pressurizing the vessel. I do agree it could be better, but I also think it's something I'd be willing to deal with for a little while.

[Sean_Jeremy]

Have you looked it up to see where the closest welding supply company is? They usually know of someone who welds.

The two nearest supply houses are 40 minutes and an hour away. I'm sure there's someone in the area that welds, I just have no idea what they'd charge me.

Regarding the racking arm: I'm guessing the design comes from their familiarity with brewing equipment. That'd be a pretty common (and preferred) set up since you'd often be pressurizing the vessel. I do agree it could be better, but I also think it's something I'd be willing to deal with for a little while.

Think I'm going to order the keg. I know I want welded TC connections and I've been lallygagging about starting this process for many years now.

[zach]

Let us know how it turns out, I'm thinking about a couple for long term wine aging.

[elbono]

Think I'm going to order the keg. I know I want welded TC connections and I've been lallygagging about starting this process for many years now.

That keg will get you off and running. You'll figure out what you like and don't like about different features.

I do like to learn new skills and make stuff, but I think my focus right now would be better spent on the actual process of distilling and not manufacturing of equipment. Hell, I'd love to have a TIG welder, it's just not in the cards financially right now.

Test out any welder with some stuff you don't mind being scrap. I had a friend mig weld some ferrules on my keg. He's a good welder but thin stainless is a different animal. I ended up sealing up leaks with silver solder. That experience is what made me decide to learn to Tig weld.

I bought a cheap tig welder on Amazon and it's worked out well but it's much less than half the cost involved. You need argon tanks, flow regulators, gloves, helmet, tools, clamps, material to practice on. I wish I had bought a little better welder but not much..

[greggn]

this https://www.gwkent.com/15-gallon-semi-k ... 0nEALw_wcB is worth giving some thought. With shipping is just under $200 dollars.

Get it, that's a great deal.

[shadylane]

Cheap, high quality keg boilers.
The more of those sold, the quicker homedistillation could become legal.

[Sean_Jeremy]

Keg ordered, next up is the rest of the kit so a simple pot still.
Do I order: https://oakstills.com/products/2-inch-s ... 8912066853
And this: https://oakstills.com/products/variable ... v-240v-1ph
And be done with it?

Or should I piece things together from places like Still Dragon? I don't mind a little bit of tinkering (like assembling the SD controller), but I'm not sure where best to be looking at ordering TC parts specific to the still like condensers. My buddy at the brewery is on the look out for clamps and fittings, but they'd all be elbows, clamps, and straight pipe.

Getting close, but could use a little more guidance to tie it all together.

[zach]

There are a couple threads out there from people who purchased from oakstills.

Higgins purchased some sight glasses and fittings from them early this year.

Someone else purchased the control panel and posted about it.

[Twisted Brick]

You might look at topping that versatile keg with a 2" copper pot still with an articulating condenser. 5500W will need a larger condenser to knock down the vapor it will produce. The ss condenser shown will require you to slow down each of your runs and make for a long day.

[Sean_Jeremy]

There are a couple threads out there from people who purchased from oakstills.

Higgins purchased some sight glasses and fittings from them early this year.

Someone else purchased the control panel and posted about it.

Thanks I found those, seems they are generally liked, but there's always the unlucky duck.

Just curious if there's other places I should be looking as well. Honestly, it looks like I could buy those two kits from OakStills and be right around $500 all in for what should be a very capable learning still. Seeming like the way to go. I was toying with sizing it all up to 3", but the cost seems like a substantial add, and probably not worth it for a starting point.

[Sean_Jeremy]

You might look at topping that versatile keg with a 2" copper pot still with an articulating condenser. 5500W will need a larger condenser to knock down the vapor it will produce. The ss condenser shown will require you to slow down each of your runs and make for a long day.

There's a few separate options for the OakStills controller, one being dual 3kw elements. Learning the power output and relationship to condensing is something I'm currently very unfamiliar with. Could you offer your recommendation for a said keg and 2" pot.

Also, I was under the impression I could pack the SS with copper to keep the cost down, granted it's not as visually appealing.

[Sean_Jeremy]

You might look at topping that versatile keg with a 2" copper pot still with an articulating condenser. 5500W will need a larger condenser to knock down the vapor it will produce. The ss condenser shown will require you to slow down each of your runs and make for a long day.

Just looked at your rig, nice work and something to aspire too (when I have more time, knowledge, skill, and money).

Can you clarify what you mean by an "articulating condenser"? Also, OakStills has a 450mm shotgun condenser that I could definitely upgrade to, sounds like that would be wise.

[Deplorable]

I'm with TB here. I'd steer away from the SS for the still head and build from copper.
A 6 foot stick of 2" M type copper pipe, a T, a 2"×1/2" reducer and a stick of 1/2 copper pipe and a hand full of TC ferrules, clamps and gaskets and you have a very versatile modular kit for the top of that keg with plenty of copper in the vapor path.
You can build a 2" modular ccvm for a very reasonable price.
A copper condenser, either a liebeg or shotgun, will be much more efficient than anything made from SS.

[elbono]

I'm a build it myself kinda guy so I went copper and learned to solder stainless ferrules to copper pipe. It's not hard but it does take time and tools. I'm glad I did but building isn't for everyone.

For cheap and easy, all of the parts can be gotten on Amazon or AliExpress cheaper than a still shop. About the only part specific to distilling is the condenser. A leibig would need to be pretty long if you intend to use much power. Shotguns are more compact but harder to build or more expensive to buy.

Decent looking 2" stainless still heads (including condenser) can be had on Amazon for less than 150 USD. I'm sure they come with silicone gaskets be sure to replace with Teflon gaskets and have some copper mesh in the vapor path.

I believe articulating means triclamps on every elbow or spool so you can move everything thing around to position it how you want.

Here's a couple of recent threads if you haven't read them:
viewtopic.php?t=91124
viewtopic.php?t=91012

[Tōtōchtin]

I bought parts from oak stills to build my own still. I am happy with the quality. Peter there can help you find parts not on his site and can offer things like thicker discs for my shotgun. I was fortunate to have bought my parts before the prices went up. Tri-clamps,ferrules and gaskets prices I couldn't come close to looking at other sites.
Building my still was personal, but looking back if money was no issue I could have some rum sitting on the shelf for 6 months now.
Tōtō

[Twisted Brick]

You might look at topping that versatile keg with a 2" copper pot still with an articulating condenser. 5500W will need a larger condenser to knock down the vapor it will produce. The ss condenser shown will require you to slow down each of your runs and make for a long day.

Learning the power output and relationship to condensing is something I'm currently very unfamiliar with. Could you offer your recommendation for a said keg and 2" pot.

In general, a larger volume boiler requires a larger heat source to create efficiency and speed. (ie: it is not efficient to heat a 15gal keg with 1500W as it would take forever to heat up). 5500W scales nicely to your keg and many members run this exact element/boiler combo. A larger heat source produces a larger volume of vapor than a smaller heat source, but requires an equivalent amount of knockdown power on the condensing end. An undersized condenser on any still requires the operator to reduce power sufficient for the condenser to 'catch up'. The downside of course is the extended time required to complete a run. So to be efficient, one needs to think about scaling their boiler, size of heat source and condenser to reasonably match capacities.

An articulating condenser is one that swivels and pivots to optimize takeoff location. The condenser you're looking at does this, but because of it's shorter length doesn't really offer a workable range of positions. Lastly, condenser design and construction can go a long way in providing efficiencies, but that's another rabbit hole. This might help explain some of it.

This is one option for a 2" copper pot. I am not aware of any retail shop that offers this design. A little more pricy up front, (buy once, cry once) but makes a damn fine spirit and avoids having to upgrade at a later date.

For economy, one option might be adding a copper shotgun to a tri-clamped riser/stillhead made of a stainless spool and fittings. This would give you the much needed copper in the vapor path as well as the required knockdown power to match your components.

[Saltbush Bill]

I don't mind a little bit of tinkering (like assembling the SD controller),

A fair few people here would vouch for the SD controlers.
They are cheap simple and work well.
The kits were also thought out by people who have been very long term hobby distillers themselves.
I own one myself and it's never let me down.
I have no experience with other brands.

[jonnys_spirit]

I don't mind a little bit of tinkering (like assembling the SD controller),

A fair few people here would vouch for the SD controlers.
They are cheap simple and work well.
The kits were also thought out by people who have been very long term hobby distillers themselves.
I own one myself and it's never let me down.
I have no experience with other brands.

I bought an SD kit because it was a good price. I gutted it and built it into a Cadco hotplate bypassing the built in thermostat controller which isn't appropriate for distilling. The SD kit comes with a control pot intended for 240V use and I was using 120V for the Cadco so I needed to order another different value POT. I was impatient on waiting for it to arrive so I parallel and series connected some resistors that I already had in my home-kit to make it work for what I wanted with the included POT - this was a couple years ago and it's been solid I'd do it again!

Cheers,
jonny

[elbono]

I don't mind a little bit of tinkering (like assembling the SD controller),

A fair few people here would vouch for the SD controlers.
They are cheap simple and work well.
The kits were also thought out by people who have been very long term hobby distillers themselves.
I own one myself and it's never let me down.
I have no experience with other brands.

I have one it's solid. It does make my led lights flicker at certain settings like any phase control unit will (the oak stills unit is phase control too).

The only gripe I have is they didn't include a fine tune pot I got two for $16 on Amazon just make sure you get 2W rating if you add this. Don't really need it but it's nice.

The real value of the oak stills unit is the enclosure, that's a nice box. BTW the large box option on the SD kit makes wiring a lot easier.

[Sean_Jeremy]

I don't mind a little bit of tinkering (like assembling the SD controller),

A fair few people here would vouch for the SD controlers.
They are cheap simple and work well.
The kits were also thought out by people who have been very long term hobby distillers themselves.
I own one myself and it's never let me down.
I have no experience with other brands.

I have one it's solid. It does make my led lights flicker at certain settings like any phase control unit will (the oak stills unit is phase control too).

The only gripe I have is they didn't include a fine tune pot I got two for $16 on Amazon just make sure you get 2W rating if you add this. Don't really need it but it's nice.

The real value of the oak stills unit is the enclosure, that's a nice box. BTW the large box option on the SD kit makes wiring a lot easier.

I posted similar thoughts over in another thread, but I'm now considering an Auber DSPR 400 to control a Dernord element. Estimate it would be right around $260 give or take some extra wire/plugs/cords I might be missing.

It's certainly more than the SD kits, and a bit more expensive than the OakStills controller as well, but it seems like it will set me up real nice for the future. I could definitely see myself adding some temp probes and utilizing the automation in the future.

Now that I have cheap option (StillDragon), easy option (OakStills), and upgraded option (Auber) I'm going to look at pricing out a copper head unit. I like building things myself, but I also want to get up and running. I could probably solder on fittings to some straight pipe, but I'd most likely want to purchase copper elbows and definitely buy a shotgun condenser. Building one of those isn't on the agenda right now.

I should mentioned I'm in the process of fixing up our old house and also totally renovating our new house. I've learned lots of new skills this way and certainly saves money not hiring out, but as a result the idea of building these components isn't very exciting or relaxing currently. Definitely would be if I was at a different place in life though.

[Homebrewer11777]

I bought that keg from Kent. Awesome deal. I run it with 2x 2000 watt heating elements. Each is running on existing different 20A circuits in my garage so I didn’t have to mess with installing 240V service. Working very well for me with MileHi traditional pot still head 3”. I use a 4” to 3” tc concentric adapter and a 6x3” sight glass packed with copper on top of keg. The 2 x 2000A elements way overpower the MilrHi Liebig so I control them down to about 1000w each when I get boiling.

[MooseMan]

Sounds good man!

Time to make yourself a nice long copper Liebig by the sound of it!

[rubberduck71]

I bought that keg from Kent. Awesome deal. I run it with 2x 2000 watt heating elements. Each is running on existing different 20A circuits in my garage so I didn’t have to mess with installing 240V service. Working very well for me with MileHi traditional pot still head 3”. I use a 4” to 3” tc concentric adapter and a 6x3” sight glass packed with copper on top of keg. The 2 x 2000A elements way overpower the MilrHi Liebig so I control them down to about 1000w each when I get boiling.

So the TC ferrules are far enough apart that the elements don't bump into each other inside the keg?

I sent them a message asking about customizations, but they replied they're only the distributor, not the manufacturer.

[Salt Must Flow]

I bought that keg from Kent. Awesome deal. I run it with 2x 2000 watt heating elements. Each is running on existing different 20A circuits in my garage so I didn’t have to mess with installing 240V service. Working very well for me with MileHi traditional pot still head 3”. I use a 4” to 3” tc concentric adapter and a 6x3” sight glass packed with copper on top of keg. The 2 x 2000A elements way overpower the MilrHi Liebig so I control them down to about 1000w each when I get boiling.

So the TC ferrules are far enough apart that the elements don't bump into each other inside the keg?

I sent them a message asking about customizations, but they replied they're only the distributor, not the manufacturer.

If you look really close at their pics, it appears that the Tri-Clamp ferrules for the elements are welded at an angle. That's pretty smart. That should keep the elements from touching. It sucks that a company can't answer a simple tech question, but that seems to be more common these days. It infuriates me, but that's because I handle tech questions every day in my job.