Rum run and flute questions

[fiery creations]

Not sure if anyone remembers my last thread or two on having issues running my newish flute while attempting a neutral with 10 plates. The main issue I was having was still getting a lot of passive reflux from the deph even with it off (albeit not putting out azeo). I believe most of this was chalked up to it being so tall with 10 plates and being outside in the cold.

Well I just ran 20 gal of 20% ABV low wines of SBB's all molasses and am having similar issues even with only 4 plates.

First, you guys were right about overpowering it. If I'm calculating this correctly (240v x my amps put in) then I only needed 2400 watts in full reflux, not over 5,000. Well sort of... This is with 4 plates and less than half the heigh so 5,000 watts isn't too surprising? I'm still getting a ton of reflux on the top plate with my needle valve at <1/16th cracked open. I physically cannot shut it down anymore with being unsure that I didn't shut it off completely, and I'm still seeing reflux sending down distillate onto the top plate. It's not just loaded and bubbling, I can physically see it raining down inside.

I don't think it's a bad needle valve because my deph output is only "drips" on this setting. At <1/16th open on the valve my output is very slow. It was <2LPH. It's great that I can control the output down that low next time I attempt a neutral, but it still seems like my only option is the crank up the power way up rather than regulate output with the needle valve.

I'm trying not to word this like a disorganized cluster F so let me just lay out exactly what I did.


4" column with 4 plates over a 26gal boiler charged with 20 gallons of 20% low wines from SBB's all molasses. Heated it up with 2880 watts to each of two elements until I had vapor coming up. Cut one element off so now 2880 watts total(best thing I did instead of trying to split power and regulate between two like last time). Then put the deph at full cooling/reflux. I let the plates load for a bit and noticed they were a little violent so I cut the power to 2400 watts and let it sit there balanced nicely for 30 minutes.

I then turned the needle valve down to 1/2 and waited 10 minutes. No rise in temp above deph. 1/4 and repeat. No change. 1/8 and no change. Repeat. 1/16th. Head temp painfully slowly climbed to 168F and distillate came out at bare drips. I collected this as "fores" at 94% until the temp spiked to 173F.

I cut it to the minimum I physically could (less than 1/16th). And since I'm not trying to make a slow output neutral, I had to crank the power up to 2880 watts again which still was barely 2.5-3LPH. ABV dropped to about 92%.

Since I cannot physically cut the deph down any lower without shutting it off, do I now purely regulate output with power input?

This seems like the same problem I ran into before, only with 4 plates in a warm room instead of 10 and in the outside cold.,. It's like my deph is working too well. Still owe Haggy a reply on the specs. Maybe it is too efficient? Or does it sound like I'm running this correctly now?


Extra questions for anyone feeling generous


I know Bill says this is pretty rough straight off the still. But I'm now into the hearts and...yikes. I'm using feed store blackstrap that is allegedly straight and unaltered. Smells and tastes good fermenting. However the distillate has a very...soapy and oily taste that I don't like. I figured it was just that way during my strips from blasting it through and high power input (even heads were cloudy) but my spirit run hearts still have this odor and taste despite high ABV and being clear. Is this normal?

After reading a bunch on here it seems like a lot of lighter white rums like Bacardi are put on oak and then filtered back to clear later. Is this worth attempting? I read an old thread saying that likely wouldn't work without some special proprietary filter. Am I likely better off just keeping it white and not trying this? Are light vs dark rums typically better off being made via recipe, or ran through more plates/reflux? I settled on wanting to only do all molasses from now on but older threads have me confused and it sounds like all blackstrap molasses may not be the best for light or white rums.


I didn't think a fast heat up made sense as far as pushing tails through. The whole "blasting past the BPs" didn't sound like it checked out chemistry/physics wise since the boiler is going to boiler at whatever temp it boils at. But after stripping 80 gallons of all molasses it seems to definitely push tails all the way into heads by hammering it. Does a slow heat up matter if you're going to put it into full reflex for at last 30 minutes? I don't want to spend 4+ hours slowly heating a boiler for no reason but I don't know where the line lies.

[Yummyrum]

If you are collecting at around 2-3lph , that sounds like you are in the ball park although getting up to 3 is bordering on too quick .

The power thing is still questionable.
Your assumption that power is just Amps x 240 is not correct . ( Because the controller also changes the “effective “ voltage going to the element .
You can determine power from amps but it requires a bit more math .
First you need to calculate the resistance of the element .
I think you said you have a 5000w .
So First calculate the Current at 240V ( the rating of the element at full power) .
5000/240 =20.833 Amps .
The resistance of the element doesn’t change ( well it does ever so slightly as it gets hotter but it is basically negligible)
Resistance =240v/20.833amps = 11.5 ohms .

Sooo now you can calculate your power from the Amps .
Power= Resistance x Amps x Amps .
At 10Amps , your 5000w element is pulling 1.15kw

Remember also that low wines are a lot more volatile in the boiler than an 8% wash so you won’t need as much power to boil low wines as wash .

There should be a lot of rain on the top plate . You would be usually running a reflux ratio of around 4-6 in a plated still , so what is coming down from the Deflag will be 4-6 times as much liquid as what is coming out the spout .

[fiery creations]

If you are collecting at around 2-3lph , that sounds like you are in the ball park although getting up to 3 is bordering on too quick .

The power thing is still questionable.
Your comment that power is just Amps x 240 is wrong . ( Because the controller also changes the “effective “ voltage going to the element .
You can determine power from amps but it requires a bit more math .
First you need to calculate the resistance of the element .
I think you said you have a 5000w .
So First calculate the Current at 240V ( the rating of the element at full power) .
5000/240 =20.833 Amps .
The resistance of the element doesn’t change ( well it does ever so slightly as it gets hotter but it is basically negligible)
Resistance =240v/20.833amps = 11.5 ohms .

Sooo now you can calculate your power from the Amps .
Power= Resistance x Amps x Amps .
At 10Amps , your 5000w element is pulling 1.15kw

Remember also that low wines are a lot more volatile in the boiler than an 8% wash so you won’t need as much power to boil low wines as wash .

There should be a lot of rain on the top plate . You would be usually running a reflux ratio of around 4-6 in a plated still , so what is coming down from the Deflag will be 4-6 times as much liquid as what is coming out the spout .

I tried sending you a message earlier but for some reason it's just sitting in my outbox. In another thread you said you used to use 4 plates for Bacardi like rums. What do you use now and why did you change from 4?

Dang. More math than I thought. 4500w elements I believe.

The low wines from before were actually 10% higher than this run.

Is 3LPH too high even for non neutrals such as whiskeys and rum? If so, I guess I'm in the sweet spot and it doesn't matter since I don't need to go any faster. I just can't believe the miniscule amount of water going through the deph to make it reflux so much. It's basically off, and with 10 plates, it was off...

[Saltbush Bill]

You'd be better off if you stop thinking about maths, and looking at the thermometers. Spend that time instead paying attention to other parts of the still.
Adjusting power and water, timing how much is leaving the still how quickly.
Don't try to push harder than 2 LPH until you really know what your doing.

[jonnys_spirit]

20g of 20%abv low wines is approximately 4g of pure ethanol.
Running @ 2LPH high proof output is going to take about 8hrs to get all of that ETOH out - less if you stop once you hit tails or take off a little faster.
That sounds about right for a spirit run, give or take a few points here or there..

Cheers,
jonny

[shadylane]

It's like my deph is working too well.

Sounds like your right.
Maybe use a pressure regulator, so the valve will have a wider range of adjustment.

[haggy]

fiery,

I will try to pick up on what you and Yummy said.

You said the power was 2880 watts. If that was calculated by volts x amps, then the amps were 12 amps. And Yummy,s formula of ohms x amps x amps would put the watts at 1656 watts.

The 1656 watts ( if that is true, seems to be ) is very low for a 4" x 4 plate column.

The vapor up the column would be at a very low rate, my models say about 3.5 L/hr. And if you took off 2.4 L/hr - then the defleg only needed to condense 1.1 L/hr. No wonder not much cooling water was needed to get some product. - like about only 80 ml/min.

My estimates of a good run for you are this:
A 4", 4 plate bubble cap column should be running at a true 2800 watts with 20% abv in the pot. That would give about 5.9 L/hr vapor rate up the four plate column and at 2.0 L/hr takeoff, the defleg would need to condense 3.9 L/hr. That would take like about 500 ml/min cw flow. ( based on my estimate of your defleg dimensions from a picture you posted ). The reflux ratio would be almost 2 and expect about 93-94% abv product. An 8 hour run.


Bottom Line
You might actually have been running at too low a watts this last time. Next time get a wattmeter for the actual watts, or use Yummys formula. Use one or two elements, but get about 2800 true watts total.

Also know the cooling water flow rate you are running. Calibrate your needle valve for a cw flow rate up to 1000 ml/min or get a flowmeter. Then once you get good operation, you will know the cw flow rate to go back to.

haggy

[jonnys_spirit]

Ohms Law:
P=I*E ----- aka: PIE
E=I*R ------aka: Elvis Is Rotting

Makes it easy to remember.

E=Volts
P=Power
I=Amps or Current
R=Resistance

Cheers,
jonny

[Saltbush Bill]

just ran 20 gal of 20% ABV low wines of SBB's all molasses and am having similar issues even with only 4 plates.

As Yummy pointed out a boiler full of low wines is going to behave differently to a boiler full of wash.
Plated columns are pretty much designed to run wash, Personally when running Rum I run a mix of wash and low wines......the only time ive run straight low wines in a plated column is when trying to make a neutral.

and I'm still seeing reflux sending down distillate onto the top plate. It's not just loaded and bubbling, I can physically see it raining down inside.

That's perfectly normal at least when using perforated plates in a column.

Cut one element off so now 2880 watts total(best thing I did instead of trying to split power and regulate between two like last time). Then put the deph at full cooling/reflux. I let the plates load for a bit and noticed they were a little violent so I cut the power to 2400 watts and let it sit there balanced nicely for 30 minutes.

Most people eventually seem to find a sweet spot that they like between 2400 and 3200 watt, when running 4 plates.....this seems to vary from still to still and person to person......there are many factors that can be responsible for the difference types of caps , number of caps, hole sizes in plates , number of holes, how well the plates seal...the list goes on.

I then turned the needle valve down to 1/2 and waited 10 minutes. No rise in temp above deph. 1/4 and repeat. No change. 1/8 and no change. Repeat. 1/16th. Head temp painfully slowly climbed to 168F and distillate came out at bare drips. I collected this as "fores" at 94% until the temp spiked to 173F.

Watching the temp WONT make the drips come any faster......watching to see if the the plates seem happy, watching the flow of product from the business end of the still, and making very small adjustments to the defelmator water flow WILL make a difference.

I cut it to the minimum I physically could (less than 1/16th). And since I'm not trying to make a slow output neutral, I had to crank the power up to 2880 watts again which still was barely 2.5-3LPH. ABV dropped to about 92%.

As before , until you learn the still don't try to go faster than 2 to 2.5 LPH.....preferably stick to 2LPH.......once you've got a handle on the whole thing you can experiment with pushing the limits.
92% ABV is exactly what you should expect from 4 plates through most of a run.....down as low as 89% toward the end at times.
If it was higher than that at the beginning it would be because you stacked the plates for 30 min......there is no real need for that ....you can start drawing fores off at a nice slow drip a couple of minutes after all of the plates are fully loaded.
Again , all the maths in the world wont help imo, starting out slow, watching what is happening on the plates will help, are they flooding or do they seem like they are starting to ? Do they seem to be bubbling two slow , or one is starting to dry up? or do they seem to all be bubbling equally and happily. Water flow to defleg and energy input to boiler is all a juggling act.....it becomes easier with experience.

[Yummyrum]

I tried sending you a message earlier but for some reason it's just sitting in my outbox. In another thread you said you used to use 4 plates for Bacardi like rums. What do you use now and why did you change from 4?

Dang. More math than I thought. 4500w elements I believe.

The low wines from before were actually 10% higher than this run.

Is 3LPH too high even for non neutrals such as whiskeys and rum? If so, I guess I'm in the sweet spot and it doesn't matter since I don't need to go any faster. I just can't believe the miniscule amount of water going through the deph to make it reflux so much. It's basically off, and with 10 plates, it was off...

Yes I did see your PM , not sure why it is not in sent .
I prefer not to use PM for discussion as it negates the whole purpose of having a forum .
But , yeah , I have run stripped all molasses in four plates many times . It does retain a lot of flavour but it it is in between a white (read light Bacardi flavoured Rum ) and what you’d expect from an aged Pot stilled Rum .

In short , it was neither of the Rums I was ultimately desiring .

So when it comes to a light Bacardi , I emulated that by simply running that through my 2” VM reflux still .
Even the power of an Azeo rig can’t kick the desired hint out of an all molasses Rum , but leaves the subtle Rum indicators in a clean white spirit .

But when it comes to a Rummy aged Rum , four plates on a strip , although still flavoursome , is seriously lacking balls .
Hence , I went to three plates and it still lacked .

Now this is kinda where our paths are meeting . I also experienced the Deflag dilemma . I eventually got the shits with it and converted my plated still to good old VM and finally rid myself of the frustration of frigging with coolant flow and power tweaking . ( I also ran gas outdoors and had flame intensity and breeze issues )
viewtopic.php?p=7552229#p7552229

Finally , I quit the plated still for making Rum for aging and went to my Thumper .
My plated still sits in the corner as a reminder that I should not get attracted to pretty things



Regarding your 4500w element , @240v , thats a 12.97 ohm element ….. lets call that 13 ohms .

So
10 amps will be 1300w
11Amps …….1573w
12Amps ….. 1870w
13amps………2197w
14amps …….2548w
15amps …...2925w
16amps………3328w
17amps……. 3757w
18amps …....4212w
19amps …... 4695w( above element rating)


The ideal spot seams to be around 2500w. As you can see , that is a titchy spot around 14amps …… but then …. That all hinges on the ability of your ammeter to show the real amps on a chopped up phase angle controller waveform ….. and most don’t do a good job .

[fiery creations]

Thanks for the replies.

Haggy- Dang. I went off a post in my last thread that went as follows. Power up in full reflux until all plates are evenly loaded. Slowly reduce dephleg until desired output is achieved. If plates drop off increase power.

Well my plates were still happily bubbling with my 10A in but output sucked even with dephleg nearly off. Once again struggling to figure out what the desired ratio is, but Yummy said 4-6x the output in reflux so at least that gives me something to eyeball and shoot for. I guess I shouldn't be afraid of ramping up power, as long as I'm not flooding.

I'll look into a flowmeter. Is the 1L/min calibration the rate you're saying to try and run it at? I know there is no way in hell I was anywhere near that much.

Bill- The only wash I've put in this thing is stripping runs with no plates. Even my whiskey is stripped first. The low ABV wash and mashes just don't seem practical to run because I'd end up with so little hearts. So far this rum smells POTENT even after being stripped and ran through 4 plates. I tried upping the speed because I was worried running it too slow might wash out the flavor with more reflux.

Not sure what you meant about temp and drips coming faster. I wasn't in any hurry, I was watching the head temp to try and get a methanol fraction. It seemed to work. Temp spiked and ABV dropped.

You said 89% towards the end. The last 1/3 of the run dropped a lot more than that. 70%ish.

Yummy- That makes sense. I wish I could try whatever you're talking about having more balls. Even after stripping and 4 plates this stuff smells very flavorful. It makes sense that even a packed column pulling azeo couldn't remove the taste completely. That's frustrating to read. I hope I don't end up ditching this expensive piece. Outside of wanting to beat my head against the wall and missing the simplicity of my last pot and CCVM still... I love it. Mostly for the easy of cleaning, feeling a lot more sanitary, and being able to set up and break it down so nicely.

Holy shit. Reading your chart.... I started off with only 1300W and bumped it up to only 1870W for the majority of the run.

So I think I have my answer. It sounds like I should have had more power this time, which would have required my dephleg to work harder and take more water in instead of being barely cracked.


What is the likely outcome of my rum from running it in this way? I'm guessing slow and underpowered is better than overpowered and blasting all the fractions out smeared?

[Setsumi]

fiery,

I will try to pick up on what you and Yummy said.

You said the power was 2880 watts. If that was calculated by volts x amps, then the amps were 12 amps. And Yummy,s formula of ohms x amps x amps would put the watts at 1656 watts.

The 1656 watts ( if that is true, seems to be ) is very low for a 4" x 4 plate column.

The vapor up the column would be at a very low rate, my models say about 3.5 L/hr. And if you took off 2.4 L/hr - then the defleg only needed to condense 1.1 L/hr. No wonder not much cooling water was needed to get some product. - like about only 80 ml/min.

My estimates of a good run for you are this:
A 4", 4 plate bubble cap column should be running at a true 2800 watts with 20% abv in the pot. That would give about 5.9 L/hr vapor rate up the four plate column and at 2.0 L/hr takeoff, the defleg would need to condense 3.9 L/hr. That would take like about 500 ml/min cw flow. ( based on my estimate of your defleg dimensions from a picture you posted ). The reflux ratio would be almost 2 and expect about 93-94% abv product. An 8 hour run.


Bottom Line
You might actually have been running at too low a watts this last time. Next time get a wattmeter for the actual watts, or use Yummys formula. Use one or two elements, but get about 2800 true watts total.

Also know the cooling water flow rate you are running. Calibrate your needle valve for a cw flow rate up to 1000 ml/min or get a flowmeter. Then once you get good operation, you will know the cw flow rate to go back to.

haggy

Fiery c. Haggy has it correct... Or so I see it. I run 5 plates, bubble or perfs at around 16 amps... On one of those round thump size electronic amp meters. So enough energy to load your plates. I run CCVM and my other tool is to ensure that I do not get over cooling of reflux. This is something that I have overlook/ misunderstood a long time. Once I started paying attention to my cooling water exit temp (I dont measure but look at output volume, less is better) my product improved by leaps.

[Saltbush Bill]

You said 89% towards the end. The last 1/3 of the run dropped a lot more than that. 70%ish.

Something very, very strange happening there.....at 70 with 4 plates you'd be dragging tails through.

I was watching the head temp to try and get a methanol fraction. It seemed to work. Temp spiked and ABV dropped.

Not sure how you think watching temp will help with that.....a fore cut can be made more easily by smell.
As for methanol it doesn't all come off at the beginning.....there is plenty written about that here if you search.

I'll look into a flowmeter. Is the 1L/min calibration the rate you're saying to try and run it at? I know there is no way in hell I was anywhere near that much.

A flow meter can't tell if the still is running at its sweet spot, only you can do that.....learn to run the still , once you have done that you can learn what the correct flow rate is.
Flow rate changes from time to time as the run progresses as well.
Last suggestion/ comment....put black electrical tape or similar over your thermometers so that you can't see them......they are a major distraction when trying to learn to run a plated column.

[Sporacle]

I think you may be starting to over think the process
Everybody's advise has been spot on, my two cents would be
Run a wash with feints.
Run at no more than 2.5 per hour
Aim for 91 92 ish
Collect in 500ml jars
Record temps by all means but use your senses for cuts till you get a consistent method
Good luck

[fiery creations]

I think you may be starting to over think the process
Everybody's advise has been spot on, my two cents would be
Run a wash with feints.
Run at no more than 2.5 per hour
Aim for 91 92 ish
Collect in 500ml jars
Record temps by all means but use your senses for cuts till you get a consistent method
Good luck

That's what I'm doing. I'm by no means running off temps or ABV. Just collecting the data and starting to keep notes so I have more info to look back on.

Thanks.

[jonnys_spirit]

For setting flow rate I'll set power and measure volume in my collection jar (mason jar with milliliter markings) for a six minute period - then multiply that volume by 10x for an hourly rate... If it's too fast or too slow, I make some adjustments and repeat until I'm taking off at the desired rate...

Or I might time how long it takes to collect 100ml and do some slightly different math to figure for liters/hr..

I "borrowed" that method from some other folks around here but I'm not charging anything for it either so I hope it might be useful at least in concept

At any rate, I start measuring as soon as I start collecting to get it under control soonest.. With some practice you'll be able to guesstimate your heatup time fairly accurately and dial your settings back appropriately for smoothest transitions between heatup, fores, heads, hearts, tails.. Sorta like piloting a boat - start making your adjustments before you really have to because it's not necessarily advise-able to turn on a dime..

The rate does drop over a run so I might start a wee bit on the faster side and let it drop to just a bit slower than desired towards the end of the run... You'll get the feel of gauging it better over a multiple runs..

Cheers,
jonny

[haggy]

fiery,

You said
I'll look into a flowmeter. Is the 1L/min calibration the rate you're saying to try and run it at? I know there is no way in hell I was anywhere near that much.

No, I did not say to run it at 1 L/min. The range of cw flow rates required should be from about 100 ml/min to 1+ L/min. Boiler charges of different abv% and power would require different cw flow rates to get a desired product rate. Find the setting ( sweet spot ) to get your desired product rate.

Also, Setsumi mentioned he pays attention to the cw exit temperature so that the reflux does not get too cold. It has been said in several other posts that about 120 F is a good cw exit temp target.

And you said:
I guess I shouldn't be afraid of ramping up power, as long as I'm not flooding.

Yes,
Here is a chart that you might want to use to set the power. It gives a range of watts to run for different pot abv% charges. The top blue line is the watts where some flooding might occur - the lower red line is an estimate of the watts to use to insure that there is enough cw flow required when running at a 2 L/hr product rate.

[shadylane]

Lots of good advice given.

Here's my 2 cents worth.
For the learning experience and to set a baseline. Run the still without any reflux and drive it hard like for a stripping run. Find the max power the wash can take before wanting to puke or the max the product condenser can knock down.
Measure and record the takeoff rate. Turn the power down some more, make another mark and do some more measurements etc.
Now you have a general idea how fast the take off rate is based on marks on the power knob, so in the future you'll be able to figure out the reflux ratio at that those power settings.
Notice I never said watts, because faulty measurements are just that.

[fiery creations]

I tried sending you a message earlier but for some reason it's just sitting in my outbox. In another thread you said you used to use 4 plates for Bacardi like rums. What do you use now and why did you change from 4?

Dang. More math than I thought. 4500w elements I believe.

The low wines from before were actually 10% higher than this run.

Is 3LPH too high even for non neutrals such as whiskeys and rum? If so, I guess I'm in the sweet spot and it doesn't matter since I don't need to go any faster. I just can't believe the miniscule amount of water going through the deph to make it reflux so much. It's basically off, and with 10 plates, it was off...

Yes I did see your PM , not sure why it is not in sent .
I prefer not to use PM for discussion as it negates the whole purpose of having a forum .
But , yeah , I have run stripped all molasses in four plates many times . It does retain a lot of flavour but it it is in between a white (read light Bacardi flavoured Rum ) and what you’d expect from an aged Pot stilled Rum .

In short , it was neither of the Rums I was ultimately desiring .

So when it comes to a light Bacardi , I emulated that by simply running that through my 2” VM reflux still .
Even the power of an Azeo rig can’t kick the desired hint out of an all molasses Rum , but leaves the subtle Rum indicators in a clean white spirit .

But when it comes to a Rummy aged Rum , four plates on a strip , although still flavoursome , is seriously lacking balls .
Hence , I went to three plates and it still lacked .

Now this is kinda where our paths are meeting . I also experienced the Deflag dilemma . I eventually got the shits with it and converted my plated still to good old VM and finally rid myself of the frustration of frigging with coolant flow and power tweaking . ( I also ran gas outdoors and had flame intensity and breeze issues )
viewtopic.php?p=7552229#p7552229

Finally , I quit the plated still for making Rum for aging and went to my Thumper .
My plated still sits in the corner as a reminder that I should not get attracted to pretty things



Regarding your 4500w element , @240v , thats a 12.97 ohm element ….. lets call that 13 ohms .

So
10 amps will be 1300w
11Amps …….1573w
12Amps ….. 1870w
13amps………2197w
14amps …….2548w
15amps …...2925w
16amps………3328w
17amps……. 3757w
18amps …....4212w
19amps …... 4695w( above element rating)


The ideal spot seams to be around 2500w. As you can see , that is a titchy spot around 14amps …… but then …. That all hinges on the ability of your ammeter to show the real amps on a chopped up phase angle controller waveform ….. and most don’t do a good job .

All right now that I figured out the steep learning curve on how to run it I’m really curious About your experience with fore plates being “lacking.”

Now what I’m hearing about the taste is that it’s horribly overpowering with floral and perfume smell and taste.

I can’t imagine wanting more flavor than what I have. Does a lot of that tame down with aging on Oak? I’m just really curious if what you were really had more flavor starting out than what I have. I wasn’t really sure how this is going to age so I did a half gallon with one large toasted stick and one large charred stick. Basically tried oaking the shit out of one jar hoping it mellows it way out. And for the other half gallon, I went with a smaller toast stick trying to go very light so I can get a idea of what it’s doing in six months to a year.

I’m planning on doing 80 more gallons of this recipe and running it through all 10 plates to see if it’s more palatable and closer to Bacardi.

While I have your attention… I cannot shake desire to get away from using any sort of sugar in my ferment. Is all good rum off the shelf using pure molasses? Or should I get out of that mindset and be OK with using sugar?

[tommysb]

Hi Fiery -

I'm not a rum expert, but I would think about the approach if you are going to do 80 gallons - my feeling is that what goes into the barrel should be at least pleasant. Put shit in, and hope for oak to fix it....well you would be lucky to get something great out.

Yes, oak and age makes things better. But make something you already like and are pleased with, and then use oak to make THAT better. Don't try to polish a turd, as they say!

I have run plates a few times, and in the early days, I used to pump too much power through them, and end up with loads of smearing and quite frankly it all tasted dogshit throughout the whole run. I never had those problems with pot stilling.

It might seem paradoxical, but just running a simple pot still and making good cuts on that might get you a 'cleaner' (i.e. more pleasant) tasting spirit. My guess is that it's *not* the lack of 'cleanness' due to lack of plates in your setup that's causing problems.

Have you ever done a simple pot still run at a calm pace? Might be worth a try. I think if you nail that, and want to clean it up more, take the hearts and run THEM through the column. That will help narrow down where the off or unpleasant flavours come in.