New steam rig and manometer test

[fiery creations]

Beautiful. I’m trying to understand how it works

So you have the right one full of water, heat it to generate steam. And it pipes into the column and down intoyour boiler full of mash? How does the steam heat the mash without escaping? Wouldn’t it just blow out the condenser and water down any distillate?

How hard is it running that, since I’m guessing all you can do is adjust the vapor speed of the water steam?

[Born_Free]

I’m trying to understand how it works

This is one of Shady's pics. The monometer is circled in red. No steam flows through the manometer.

[shadylane]

No steam flows through the manometer.

Not until the shit almost hits the fan.
Blowing or sucking the water out is the safety.

[shadylane]

Beautiful. I’m trying to understand how it works

So you have the right one full of water, heat it to generate steam. And it pipes into the column and down intoyour boiler full of mash? How does the steam heat the mash without escaping? Wouldn’t it just blow out the condenser and water down any distillate?

How hard is it running that, since I’m guessing all you can do is adjust the vapor speed of the water steam?

I'll try to answer that until Twisted gets around to saying it better than I can.

There's a shit load of energy in steam
When the steam hits the liquid in the thumper, the steam condenses and gives up its heat.
If everything is designed right, very little or none of the steam breaks the surface and escapes.
But the condensed steam does slowly dilute the thumper charge.

[fiery creations]

Beautiful. I’m trying to understand how it works

So you have the right one full of water, heat it to generate steam. And it pipes into the column and down intoyour boiler full of mash? How does the steam heat the mash without escaping? Wouldn’t it just blow out the condenser and water down any distillate?

How hard is it running that, since I’m guessing all you can do is adjust the vapor speed of the water steam?

I'll try to answer that until Twisted gets around to saying it better than I can.

There's a shit load of energy in steam
When the steam hits the liquid in the thumper, the steam condenses and gives up its heat.
If everything is designed right, very little or none of the steam breaks the surface and escapes.
But the condensed steam does slowly dilute the thumper charge.

Ahhh ok. So it’s pipes in to the bottom of the grain mash through the wand. Basically turns back to water transferring energy and heating it up. So if you’re constantly adding water to your boiler, that’s gotta affect something right?

Trying to visualize it. The pot gets more water heavy throughout a normal run. This would add even more and cause the BP to increase and essential dilute your mash throughout the run? AFAIK more distilleries use a steam jacket and not a wand directly into the mash?


Curious to hear how it runs for Twisted. I’m intrigued.


I understand the manometer part.

[NormandieStill]

Ahhh ok. So it’s pipes in to the bottom of the grain mash through the wand. Basically turns back to water transferring energy and heating it up. So if you’re constantly adding water to your boiler, that’s gotta affect something right?

Trying to visualize it. The pot gets more water heavy throughout a normal run. This would add even more and cause the BP to increase and essential dilute your mash throughout the run? AFAIK more distilleries use a steam jacket and not a wand directly into the mash?

That's exactly it. So don't fill your thumper to the brim or at some point it'll overflow. The steam injection heats and adds water, but the heating happens fast enough that the additional water isn't an issue. A good wand design will also stir the mash ensuring even heating.

In an ideal world you want the tube running to the thumper to angle back towards the boiler so that any condensation will flow back to the boiler not into the mash.

[shadylane]

The steam injection heats and adds water, but the heating happens fast enough that the additional water isn't an issue. A good wand design will also stir the mash ensuring even heating.

In an ideal world you want the tube running to the thumper to angle back towards the boiler so that any condensation will flow back to the boiler not into the mash.

Dilution isn't that much of a problem, what is important is to strip the alcohol out.
Having said that, anything that mitigates dilution is good.

[fiery creations]

The steam injection heats and adds water, but the heating happens fast enough that the additional water isn't an issue. A good wand design will also stir the mash ensuring even heating.

In an ideal world you want the tube running to the thumper to angle back towards the boiler so that any condensation will flow back to the boiler not into the mash.

Dilution isn't that much of a problem, what is important is to strip the alcohol out.
Having said that, anything that mitigates dilution is good.

I didn’t think about it just being for stripping. Fire up the elements for more precise control during the spirit run. Duhh

How are you guys figuring out the specs to engineer this? I’m assuming using a bigger “thumper” with a smaller boiler to generate steam would require certain ID plumbing to be optimal and heat sufficiently? With what I have, I feel like I would only need a couple odds and ends to attach a steam wand to the threads on my pot still boiler and connect it to my 2 inch fill port down into the larger mash boiler.

Sounds like this requires a bit more safety thought to mitigate risks.

[shadylane]

How are you guys figuring out the specs to engineer this?

Make a guess and build it with what we have.

[NormandieStill]

How are you guys figuring out the specs to engineer this? I’m assuming using a bigger “thumper” with a smaller boiler to generate steam would require certain ID plumbing to be optimal and heat sufficiently?

After lots of reading and a vast amount of calculations I settled on 16mm tube because it was kicking around in the shed.

As long as you are only using it for steam injection and would never have anything in the steam boiler with solids that could plug the tube, you can use whatever you want.

I guess that at some point you might get such a small bore that you can generate steam faster than you can get it out of the tube but it'd have to be pretty small. I have mostly 16mm tube going into the wand, but the wand itself has only 8 1mm diameter holes and I get no measurable back pressure.

[zach]

[
How are you guys figuring out the specs to engineer this?

1) I've used Haggy's calculator to make an estimate of how much water I need in my keg steam generator to start a run.

https://homedistiller.org/wiki/htm/calc ... umper.html

2) Line sizing is based on what your power input into the steam generator and the steam mass flow rate.

viewtopic.php?p=7745227#p7745227

[fiery creations]

Thanks guys!


Does the manometer have to dip below the boiler? I’m not understanding why it would need to.


Anyone come up with a way to add more water to the boiler throughout the run?

[Bolverk]

Anyone come up with a way to add more water to the boiler throughout the run?

I use one of these

MEUPMEOP 1/2'' Automatic Water Level Control Valve Auto Shut Off Ball Mini Float Valve 304 Stainless Steel Float Valve https://a.co/d/0gf0Es7l

[fiery creations]

You guys that steam strip-

Are you throwing everything in the thumper, including the trub? Or do you still have to do a little separating?

[Bolverk]

You guys that steam strip-

Are you throwing everything in the thumper, including the trub? Or do you still have to do a little separating?

I add everything, no separation whatsoever.

2 benefits, 1. Your yield is slightly higher because there is no loss in the separated grain, and 2. Yeast cell walls burst, releasing more amino and fatty acids, making more/better esters.

[zach]

You guys that steam strip-

Are you throwing everything in the thumper, including the trub? Or do you still have to do a little separating?

I mash, ferment and strip in the thumper. I grind the grain to flour so any separation would be difficult. Nothing is dumped until it's cool enough take to the compost pile.

I do the same with grape pomace and hoping to get a load of stone fruit soon.

[Andy_NZ]

[/quote]Anyone come up with a way to add more water to the boiler throughout the run?
[/quote]

viewtopic.php?t=92612

This is my setup for steam. Warms up and produces steam quickly and i have 20 litres as a reservoir. I can feel the temp on the reservoir to judge how much water i have left. Simple setup and runs nice and smoothly.

[tjsc5f]

2. Yeast cell walls burst, releasing more amino and fatty acids, making more/better esters.

I've heard that some yeast strains can impart bad flavors during this process, while others give little to no flavor and some give desirable flavors. What types of yeast do you prefer, and have you tried any that introduced some off flavors?

[shadylane]

Does the manometer have to dip below the boiler? I’m not understanding why it would need to.

The mano can be above or below the boiler.

[Bolverk]

2. Yeast cell walls burst, releasing more amino and fatty acids, making more/better esters.

I've heard that some yeast strains can impart bad flavors during this process, while others give little to no flavor and some give desirable flavors. What types of yeast do you prefer, and have you tried any that introduced some off flavors?

I've not had any issues with this so I can't say. I've tried several lallaman brand ale yeasts, saf1 baker's, and DADY with no issues.

[Tammuz]

I’m trying to understand how it works

This is one of Shady's pics. The monometer is circled in red. No steam flows through the manometer.

I would think steam like water follows a path of least resistance. I believe that manometer would blow with that much in the thumper, especially if it was a mash in there.

[shadylane]

A rule of thumb is to have the mano 1.5 times taller than the highest liquid level in the thumper.
That way the steam goes to the thumper. Instead of venting out the mano.
My first pic didn't show that so here is an update to show it better.

There's only a tiny difference between the weight of a liquid mash and water.
If the level is the same, it takes the same amount of pressure to blow bubbles in either of them.