Why I don't use Easy Flanges

[cranky]

Back in 2022 I got a wild hair and decided to take some of my spare copper and see if I could TIG weld a new pot head, which included a new lyne arm and a long 3 tube shotgun condenser.

The idea was pretty good and it actually went quite well but there were some problems and some things I just didn't like so I made a 2nd almost identical condenser...which turned out pretty much the same and I never used either of them.

In truth I've always been pretty happy with my original liebig and never really felt the need to use the new one.

So, a couple years went by and I'm cleaning things up and actually getting ready to take a bit of a break from distilling and I found a full roll of silver solder (No idea where that came from ), flux, my crappy propane torch, and all my copper

So, I decided to go ahead and redo one of the condensers and clean it before putting it away.

So, I cut the ends off, made a new hammered flange jig out of some oak flooring and redid all but one small part of it. This actually went pretty well but at one point I was chasing leaks and my crappy propane torch, that I have to hold upside down to get to work, just couldn't handle it so I had to resort to TIG soldering, which worked just fine.

With that all finished I proceeded to start the cleaning runs. Of course the first one was water, which went fine.

I steamed it for something like 3hrs. Then I added the vinegar and began steaming that.

About 2hrs into that I figured it was time to turn on the water and start condensing, which would have been followed my another water run before the sacrificial run but just before I plugged the pump in the column fell over

That's when I realized there was a slight flaw in my design...namely the fact that I used to use Easy flanges

I guess I should explain my pot head design. my old design, which has worked absolutely fine for 11 years now, used slip fit couplings to make it easy to assemble and disassemble. This included a fitting with a flange that connected the riser to the keg.

The new design uses slip fit up to the lyne arm, then a hammered flange and try clamp to connect the condenser.

For years I've had a much shorter shotgun condenser I've used for my flute and neutral columns but it is too under powered to handle a full on stripping run.

The original version of that short condenser used an easy flange, which eventually failed and was replaced by a hammered flange, which seems to be able to handle a lot more stress.

I also usually support the big columns from the ceiling but where I was running had nowhere I could support it, so there was a fairly hefty side load going on. I thought I had made that keg connection a hammered flange years ago but I guess not.

So now I didn't get to finish my cleaning runs and will have to modify that fitting into a hammered flange fitting and maybe figure out connecting a trypod for support in the future. Not that I actually plan on doing much with it other than boxing it up and stowing it away.

This sort of thing is why I quit using easy flanges.

[shadylane]

Looks like the torch wasn't big enough.

My preference for making DIY flanges is to use flux coated brazing rod on the non-vapor areas.
Makes for a physically strong connection. Lately I'm getting too lazy to do much DIY, buying ready made is much easier.

[MooseMan]

Cranky when you say easy flange, what do you mean specifically? Is there one method that is the accepted way to do it and call it that?

Since I came here I've always assumed that the term easy flange referred to any method used to turn a straight copper spool into a flange ended spool.
That picture shows a copper ring butt welded/soldered onto the end of the pipe which obviously is not going to be the strongest joint but I'd have called it the same as the "Easy flanges" that I hammered out on my column and RC when I first started.

Not being nit picky here of course, you've exposed my ignorance on something so I want to get it right in my head.

[cranky]

Looks like the torch wasn't big enough.

My preference for making DIY flanges is to use flux coated brazing rod on the non-vapor areas.
Makes for a physically strong connection. Lately I'm getting too lazy to do much DIY, buying ready made is much easier.

It lasted 11 years, several of those with a column that would rock back and forth while running. I know it looks ugly now but it actually was bonded pretty good.

Cranky when you say easy flange, what do you mean specifically? Is there one method that is the accepted way to do it and call it that?

Since I came here I've always assumed that the term easy flange referred to any method used to turn a straight copper spool into a flange ended spool.
That picture shows a copper ring butt welded/soldered onto the end of the pipe which obviously is not going to be the strongest joint but I'd have called it the same as the "Easy flanges" that I hammered out on my column and RC when I first started.

Not being nit picky here of course, you've exposed my ignorance on something so I want to get it right in my head.

Yes, The easy flange is a specific method. There is a very old post, possibly a sticky somewhere by, OldDog (I think) where he shows a method called an easy flange, which is basically a ring soldered to a pipe. They aren't the strongest but are easier than a hammered flange. They work for some things but if placed under a heavy load are prone to failure, which is why I switched to hammered flanges a very long time ago.

Now that you mention it, I think mine was originally a retainer soldered to a coupling. When I stopped using the Boka I removed the perforated area of the retainer for better flow.

[MooseMan]

Thanks cranky, appreciate the clarification.

I just made the (Incorrect!) assumption that any means of adding a TC flange to a pipe was called easy flange.

If you got 10 years out of that one, it can't be called a weak joint all things considered!

[cranky]

Thanks cranky, appreciate the clarification.

I just made the (Incorrect!) assumption that any means of adding a TC flange to a pipe was called easy flange.

If you got 10 years out of that one, it can't be called a weak joint all things considered!

You're welcome. I've been looking for OldDog's original post about it but it's taking up a lot of time so I quit.

[cranky]

Well, I took my fitting to work and made a hammered flange.

I thought I might run through my process a bit.

To start with I remover the solder

Annealed it, then made a jig out of flooring.

Clamped it in a vice and it was Hammer Time

After the first hammering and time to anneal again

After 2nd hannering

I.D. fit check to make sure I hadn't distorted it too much

O.D. fit check will have to wait until I get home.

[cranky]

Once I got home I checked the fit and it will work but should be a bit bigger. I have a couple solutions for that

#1 Remove solder from the original flange and make sure it will fit over the existing flange and not fasten them together.

#2 Solder the ring to the top of the new hammered flange so any stress is exerted against the hammered part.

#3 TIG weld the flange bigger

Currently I'm thinking option #1

Anyway, here are a couple of other goofy things I did while remaking the condenser.

For testing purposes I needed to be able to pressurize the water jacket, which is why it has a valve. I tend to not be one of those people who thinks you need a temperature gradient throughout the condenser and tend to run my product condensers wide open but I added a valve to the bottom for testing.

I'm also not one of those people who think condensers should be fed from the top. My thinking on that is cold water naturally goes to the bottom so it should be fed from the bottom and if a pump fails the condenser will remain full. So my inlet is always at the bottom.

Now, my return hose is the same size as 1/2 inch I.D. pipe, but the hose from my pump fits 1/2 inch tubing. In the process of making this I got a little backwards and made the outlet 1/2" tubing and the inlet 1/2" pipe To fix this I had to use a technique I often use to join the two pipes.

The problem with joining the two is the tubing is just a little too small to fit tightly into the pipe

So I clean the inside of the pipe and outside of the tube then use a broken rivet set that I have, that fits the I.D. of the tubing perfectly

Because the set is tapered and the tubing is soft I can hold the tubing in my hand, tap it a few times with a hammer and create a tapered flange that will then fit tightly into the pipe. I then slip the tube into the pipe up to 1/2 inch, fill it with flux, heat it up and solder it like a normal fitting. I've never had one of these leak or fail

Even when soldered with my crappy propane torch

[MooseMan]

Man I love this kind of stuff, a clearly written process with images is just gold for people to learn from.

When you say the flange should be "Bigger" you do mean thicker so that the clamp bites it better yes?
So option 1 you are saying take the old ring and sit it over the pipe so it rests on the flange?

To make mine thicker I went with solder. I built up a bank of solder all the way around the outside upper surface of the flange, then filed it so it tapered to the outside similar to a real TC flange.

It works well enough, but if I did another I'd get some thick copper wire and solder that on as well to add some meat and save using so much solder.

In your situation I'd trim that old flange ring you have, drop it over the pipe and solder it to the new one, then file it to the profile you want.

That little taper trick with the tool you have is very useful, I've used it to swage/flare tubing to match reducers as well.
I made a Liebig for a friend last week actually and used this very trick on each end to save having to buy reducers that I didn't have.

As I don't have a tapered tool like that, I've found that if you take a solid bar, around half the diameter of the pipe you want to swage, put it in around an inch and roll it around pressing it to the pipe wall, it will give you a nice flare that you can control quite carefully.

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

Well, I took my fitting to work and made a hammered flange.

Thanks for the write up Cranky, I think I might try making one.

Rusty

[cranky]

When you say the flange should be "Bigger" you do mean thicker so that the clamp bites it better yes?

Actually I was talking diameter. Due to cost I always use 1.5" pipe and not 2" but because the keg takes a 2" try clamp I keep all my try clamps 2". So my flanges have to be extra wide. It's much easier to hammer a smaller flange and would make sense to use 1.5" try clamps but this is the way I do it

I have copper in my toolbox at work and whipped up a piece to make it slightly larger diameter. Then when I got home and was checking it

I realized something ...well 2 things really...

First the top of my boiler has gotten very dirty over the years. I've cleaned the inside many times but I don't think I've washed the outside since it was first constructed I guess I should do that before I put it away.

And 2nd, The last time I reinstalled the connector I couldn't find the proper copper centered everlasting gasket so I used one that was cardboard centered but was slightly larger in diameter than necessary. This gave the appearance of the flange being too small but once the gasket was removed and the proper gasket installed it was pretty close to perfect.

and clamped up nice and tight because the gasket is pretty thick.

In your situation I'd trim that old flange ring you have, drop it over the pipe and solder it to the new one, then file it to the profile you want.

I actually did that on the condenser

and some other stuff. Soldering works fine but it uses a lot of solder but it's much easier to file down solder...of course I have die grinders and sanding disks, which makes it much easier.

I don't think I posted an overall of the condenser so here is that

Y'all might have noticed I don't really go for that pretty, shiny, perfect copper. My style is best described as Early American Junk Pile

[cranky]

Y'all might have noticed I don't really go for that pretty, shiny, perfect copper. My style is best described as Early American Junk Pile

Well... ...except for this little project I suppose

[MooseMan]

Y'all might have noticed I don't really go for that pretty, shiny, perfect copper. My style is best described as Early American Junk Pile

Well... ...except for this little project I suppose
image.png

Wow cranky what an impressive beast!

That's a whole lot of glass and a whole lot of seals! Haha

Is it a running still or just a pretty project?

Interesting approach on the 2" to 1.5" TCs by the way, that's another great solution for a lot of people who have 1.5" pipe and a keg.

[Yummyrum]

Haven’t seen muggles for a while cracky

[LWTCS]

Haven’t seen muggles for a while cracky

OK.

I forgot all about that still. Talk about a blast from the past!

[cranky]

Wow cranky what an impressive beast!

That's a whole lot of glass and a whole lot of seals! Haha

Is it a running still or just a pretty project?

It was also a whole lot of work

Yes, it is a fully functioning still. I ran it almost exclusively for 1-2 years but I feel fruit came out better from a simple pot still. I think this one produces the best rum though.

The complete story of it and my other glass column can be seen here
viewtopic.php?t=55608

Haven’t seen muggles for a while cracky

OK.

I forgot all about that still. Talk about a blast from the past!

It is a blast from the past I haven't used it in a while but as I was cleaning the garage and packing stuff away I dug it out and went back and read some of the posts on the goofy things thread and it just made me smile I also found some videos of it running. I wish I could post them because they are just so nice to sit and watch.

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

Whoa, that's s nice set up!

[cranky]

Whoa, that's s nice set up!

Thank you

[cranky]

I've been wanting to get on with the cleaning runs of my newest condenser now that the keg connection is finished but it actually isn't finished

I am reluctant to hang all that weight on it in the partially annealed condition it is currently in for fear it will start leaning. My plan was to take it to the sand blaster when it was finished but the sand blaster had an out of service tag on it saying something was broken So I was unable to use it.

I found out today that what is says on that out of service tag is what people in my industry call a "lie". It seems it was done to prevent certain people from using the sand blaster, so tomorrow I should be able to go ahead and get it sand blasted and work hardened so it won't develop a lean.

[Yummyrum]

. My plan was to take it to the sand blaster when it was finished but the sand blaster had an out of service tag on it saying something was broken So I was unable to use it.

Sand blasting . ….Ohhh …. Shiny
and hardened of coarse

[MooseMan]

If you just want to work harden it a bit quicker cranky, you could set it on top of something like a vibratory sander (Or anything that will "Rattle" it?) for a few minutes and that will help to speed up the process?
An old guy in a toolroom once showed me how to do it by half filling a copper pipe with nuts and bolts, and running it slow in a lathe for a few minutes.

[cranky]

. My plan was to take it to the sand blaster when it was finished but the sand blaster had an out of service tag on it saying something was broken So I was unable to use it.

Sand blasting . ….Ohhh …. Shiny
and hardened of coarse

It's not really shiny, it's more a clean mat finish When I made the welded shotguns I cleaned and sandblasted everything but I'm being too lazy to do that again

If you just want to work harden it a bit quicker cranky, you could set it on top of something like a vibratory sander (Or anything that will "Rattle" it?) for a few minutes and that will help to speed up the process?
An old guy in a toolroom once showed me how to do it by half filling a copper pipe with nuts and bolts, and running it slow in a lathe for a few minutes.

The sand blaster is probably the quickest and easiest solution for me. I also have an idea it helps stress relieve the copper, similar to shot peening...of course I could be wrong on that.

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

Man, I have a lot to learn about copper and how to work with it!

[cranky]

I didn't manage to get the coupling sand blasted yesterday but I went ahead and installed it, assembled everything and got back to the vinegar run.

All of that probably belongs on another thread, maybe the goofy things thread but I'm going to go ahead and talk about it here.

2hrs steaming the vinegar followed by a half hour to 45 minutes with the condenser running. It ran flawlessly.

Then I drained the boiler, rinsed it out, filled it up with water, steamed it with water steam 2hrs then turned the condenser on for another hour. Then I had to go to bed.

Today I drained the boiler, added 1 gallon of fores I had saved up and 3 gallons of feints I really wanted to use in an all feints run. I had planned to add the 2 gallons of apple feints I have but just couldn't bring myself to do it Then added water until the boiler was 3/4 full and fired it up.

I have to say, I don't like this particular setup and never did because the the riser is just too freaking tall. I really prefer a short riser for a pot still and will likely run it on a short riser if I ever use this in the future with the outlet just high enough off the ground for the collection jars and spill tray. I do think this will work exceptionally well for my Neutralizer, which was too tall for the 20 inch shotgun I last used it with. This should bring the outlet just about where I want is the next time I make neutral.

As expected this condenser had no problem knocking down everything my 5500W element could do. It did take a lot longer to heat up since it had to push the vapor so high. It took nearly an hour which is pretty unusual but once it reached the condenser it took less than an hour to put out 4 gallons of "cleaning fluid" which can be a hell of a stripping run in the future. It smells so good it made me sad to use such good feints for a sacrificial run

In that hour the water temp went from around 70f up to 115f at the top of the reservoir, which isn't terrible.

The new coupling stood up just fine through the whole thing with no apparent distortion or leaking. Nothing else leaked either.

Now it's time to break everything down, finish making the crates and get everything packed away.