Propagating dry yeast

[PhoenixoftheNow]

I watch videos of people propagating use mainly using liquid yeast, those using dry yeast just say they add the yeast to the dehydrated malt. I have a few 11 gram packets of dry yeast for single malts that I would like to freeze for the future. I was wondering if I could add 11 g to a 1 l flask or would that be too much to start. My plan is to work these starters up to a 3 l flask.
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[greggn]

I have a few 11 gram packets of dry yeast for single malts that I would like to freeze for the future. I was wondering if I could add 11 g to a 1 l flask or would that be too much to start. My plan is to work these starters up to a 3 l flask.

I'd suggest keeping the dry yeast sealed and dry until you're ready to use it. Then rehydrate and grow.

[Twisted Brick]

It’ll take some homework to scale a starter to your pitch rates and timeframes, but it’s not difficult and there are homebrewing sites with instructions. Here’s one with dry yeast:

https://byo.com/resource/build-a-yeast-starter/

[PhoenixoftheNow]

It’ll take some homework to scale a starter to your pitch rates and timeframes, but it’s not difficult and there are homebrewing sites with instructions. Here’s one with dry yeast:

https://byo.com/resource/build-a-yeast-starter/

I thank you for that. Again in this thread there is no mention on the amount of yeast used. I guess I'll play with some bread yeast to see how little l can start with for a one liter flask. I figure I want to build up to 20 50 ml tubes from one 11g packet. Then with one frozen tube built a starter. Then clean and reuse that for about 5 more ferments. Save some money for more copper.

[Steve Broady]

In my opinion, yeast is one of the lowest of my costs. Of course, I’m not using super expensive, special stuff. I did start a batch of S-04 a year or so back and have been propagating that ever since, but that’s more for the fun of it than to save money.

In fact, I pitched some on Saturday that I’d reserved from my last bourbon ferment several months ago. I asked my wife to check on it today, and she reports that it’s bubbling away very happily, even after sitting in a carboy full of collected trub on a pantry shelf for a few months, unloved and unfed. Yeast seems to be tough stuff.

[Homebrewer11777]

This calculator might be more useful than the wyeast one linked above.
https://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php

There is a lot of debate about how much yeast is in those 11 gram homebrew dry packs. By label it is at least 60 million but most people seem to do ok with assumption it is more like 10-20 million per gram. I've never been disappointed assuming the higher end of that range.

I buy the 500 gram bricks from celler science (probably ordered from MoreBeer.com) and see English is $90 right now with free shipping. Yes that is a lot more than bread yeast or DADY but still $0.18/gram and I need something like 75 grams for a 30 gal batch...$13.50.

To build that pitch from a single pack of yeast I'd need a 9 liter starter. That is a lot of DME. 900 grams...@ $7.50/lb that is probably more money than the yeast.

From the test tubes you mentioned...would have to get an estimate for how much yeast in a tube. With liquid yeast home propagated you may need to get a microscope and cell counting equipment for any real accuracy. I've done that a few times and it is interesting but in the end reliable dry yeast is just so much easier.

[Tammuz]

I too am interested in this. I justed started another thread basically asking the same question. I deleted when I saw this. The closest I've seen giving numbers is starting 100 ml of liquid yeast to 1 liter of dme at 10.25. I need to start some to freeze as it's a bitch to get healthy yeast for me. I want to start some so I can begin with yeast that's not from a mash. I'm curious how long it takes to reach a 20 fold harvest starting with a 11g packet.

[BoilerMaker]

It’ll take some homework to scale a starter to your pitch rates and timeframes, but it’s not difficult and there are homebrewing sites with instructions. Here’s one with dry yeast:

https://byo.com/resource/build-a-yeast-starter/

I thank you for that. Again in this thread there is no mention on the amount of yeast used. I guess I'll play with some bread yeast to see how little l can start with for a one liter flask. I figure I want to build up to 20 50 ml tubes from one 11g packet. Then with one frozen tube built a starter. Then clean and reuse that for about 5 more ferments. Save some money for more copper.

Freezing yeast starter will kill a substantial number of the cells. There are methods to mitigate the loss, but then reviving the starter will have it's own challenges. If you're practicing with bread yeast, don't forget to experiment with that part too.

[Tammuz]

There are mediums like glycerin you can add the yeast to to stop cells from bursting when frozen.

[fzbwfk9r]

I buy the 500 gram bricks from celler science (probably ordered from MoreBeer.com) and see English is $90 right now with free shipping. Yes that is a lot more than bread yeast or DADY but still $0.18/gram and I need something like 75 grams for a 30 gal batch...$13.50.

To build that pitch from a single pack of yeast I'd need a 9 liter starter. That is a lot of DME. 900 grams...@ $7.50/lb that is probably more money than the yeast.

2 kg of barley malt will make enough wort to build your starter?

that's $8 worth of malt, you could use $2 worth and unmalted to same effect.

not sure, but I'd think this would be a good way to use up old malt, as you can wash your yeast of the old wort, and pitch the slurry.

or do I have the process completely wrong?

[howie]

i've never propagated or frozen yeast yet.
i looked into freezing some Wyeast 1469 i used in a beer, as it is fairly expensive & hard to get.
but with the little knowledge i gained, i think this thread is confusing as different posters are listing different methods.
some are talking about multiplying yeast to a viable quantity and others are talking about freezing.
i was interested in slanting, which is freezing yeast in glycerine, in test tubes, which can be unfrozen and propagated.
i think its easier to do your own research and follow that path, or look at a beer brewing site for info.
not forgetting the extra equipment, levels of sanitation and sanitary environment required to dabble with live yeast.
greggans advice is probably the best for dry yeast packets if you want to increase the yeast count.
it's another rabbit hole

if you want to go down there - look up build your own stir plate with a computer fan, a rare earth magnet and a pill

[Homebrewer11777]

I think @Howie's reason for propagating yeast is main one that makes sense. A specific liquid yeast that can be a challenge to source when you need it could justify maintaining slants and growing them up for use "yeast ranching".

For me I tend to figure out a dry yeast that gets me most of the way there and then adjust pitching rates and fermentation temperatures to dial in performance. I use a limited number of reliable strains, buy them by the brick, and store the yeast dry in the freezer in mason jars where the yeast seems to last more or less forever with no significant degradation or contamination issues. Right now I have Red Star DADY and Cellar Sciences English (similar to S04) and Cellar Sciences Cali (simiarl to US-05). Also two different bread yeasts available that I share with my wife's bread making hobby.

I do have stir plates and flasks, DME etc (lol just remembered I have a microscope, hemocytometer and methylene blue kit for counting viable yeast cells) all for making starters to expand cell counts and would likely use them if anyone convinced me to try a liquid yeast again...but having done it a few times the novelty of spending a week before a brew day growing up a starter (especially 3+ steps with cell counting) has worn off. Not to mention the times that I spent that week working on the starter and then had to reschedule my brew day at the last minute.

[Tammuz]

Getting yeast mailed in the tropics sucks ass,in the summer forget about it. Freezing yeast is a way to go and not that difficult but is time consuming. If you have a bank account that causes you not to worry about buying then buy a case. In my case I've bought 11 gram and worked my way up to 3lt x 2 at a time. I've no clue on my cell count but a 50ml test tube runs a 30 gal ferment. That's using 50% glycerin in the tube.

[fzbwfk9r]

Tammuz
Got a link to your yeast propagation process?

I'm always interested in new processes, and saving $ where I can.

I have access to grain by the tonne, but not yeast... although I can mailorder, shipping gets stupid expensive, so I'd prefer to build up some to have in the freezer.

Thanks in Advance.

[Tammuz]

I'm in the mts now we are harvesting my friends piñas.When I get home I'll look it up. Mainly 3 videos I ran across on YouTube. I have piloncillo in bulk. I've been using old DME. I'm going to try some rum yeast with it. Summer coming so will rum runs.

[fzbwfk9r]

I'm in the mts now we are harvesting my friends piñas.When I get home I'll look it up. Mainly 3 videos I ran across on YouTube. I have piloncillo in bulk. I've been using old DME. I'm going to try some rum yeast with it. Summer coming so will rum runs.

Thanks
looking forward to the information.

I'll do some of my own research too. I'd be nice to have a selection in the freezer for when I don't want to travel into town.

[Tammuz]

I still haven't made it home to my computer yet. I remember these from YouTube. There's one more from an Irish distillery that was really good but for the life of me I can't remember the name. If I do I'll add it later. I bought all my supplies besides the DME from AliExpress.



I started this way and found it to be to critical for my brain, and takes longer to build up a starter.





This method seems to work for me. I would start with some cheap yeast,freeze wait a week then make a starter. If it works then use your good yeast. I bought my supplies from AliExpress. If you have the money I would get
1) 500ml flask 1 liter will work fine.

2) 1 liter flasks

2) 2 liter flasks

1) 5 liter flask

50) 50 ml centrifugal vials
I also bought a plastic case that holds 25 vials each.


Make your own stir plates,get your magnets, stir bars, and fans from AliExpress also. Don't be shy with the starsan.
So far we have only used the ec118 for some vodka runs. When I get back next month I want to play with molasses and piloncillo rather then DME as it's much cheaper.
Freezing yeast is one of those things(for me) you just have to start, the second time you dial in the sequence,the third time you nail it.

[Pure Old Possum Piss]

DME isn't needed. You can use any wash, mash, wort or must that you usually ferment. And you dont need special stire plates and magnets or any fancy stuff. Just stir the hell (even shake it) out of it several times a day. Remember that a yeast colony will double at least every hour. Yeast starter/bomb. It doesn't take long to turn a single little Yeast packet into enough yeast to start 50 gallons. You can keep a couple jars of your favorite yeast around for a year or longer if just remove or use half every 2 weeks or so, and add fresh wash wort or must to replace what you use. Non-commercial (hobby) distillers have been doing this for 100s of years on a shoestring budget. You can too.
Just don't do a high gravity. And keep it aerated. It needs O2 for the 48 hrs of its anaerobic/budding cycle.

[Homebrewer11777]

Make sure you are boiling the wash you are planning to use to grow your yeast in. Pressure canning your starter wash/wort would not be unreasonable if available for you. DME is convenient, you can certainly make a mash instead. I disagree that any wash you would usually ferment is good enough. I wouldn't use a sugar wash or really even a high corn wash even with nutrients. I'd go with a barley wash. Also wash should not be too strong. Starter wort is usually 1.030 to 1.040. Higher is not better.

Oh boil your flasks, bars and stoppers. You should be aiming for sterile not just sanitized when you get into yeast propagating and banking.