Help with thumper use

[PossumPie]

I decided to use my thumper on a all-grain sourmash run. I had 11 gallons of mash so I had to divide it into 2 fermentors I fermented on the grain. ABV before ferment was 1.060 and after was 1.020...It stalled and nothing I did could drop it to my (hoped for) 1.010. I charged my 1.3 gallon oak cask thumper with 2qts of feints from a run back 3 months ago and fired everything up. When the stream started, I did an alcohol reading and got 40%. This shocked me b/c on stripping runs without thumper I generally get over 80%. I then remembered reading something about thumpers balancing out the product to a more even proof through the run. After an hour I was getting 20% and at about 3hrs I was getting 5% and shut off the still. Taste is sour with a small bit of grunge (wet cardboard of tails) but has good potential when spirit run is done.

Started with approx 4 gallons of wash in the still, calculator said approx 5% ABV, so I should have gotten about 4qts of low wines at 20% ABV. I only got 2.5qts at 20% ABV. Either something was wrong in my calculations or in my setup or I'm misunderstanding something. My second run is 6 gallons. I generally don't have to do a spirit run using a thumper but with the low ABV and having 6 more gallons to go, I will. I checked the ABV of the feints in the still when I dumped it and they were 0%. Don't know the ABV in the thumper, I'm not taking it apart.

EDIT:
Second run started at 40% ABV. If I didn't know better, I'd think there was a leak, but I checked all connections. I'll collect everything down to 5%, tear the thumper off, reconnect the condenser, and run a spirit run. I can't keg 20% ABV...

[Dr Griz]

Depending on the initial ABV of your thumper charge, you should've yielded even more than your theoretical 4 quarts.

Near as I can figure it, you're low yield is caused by one (or more) of three things: (1) you've got a leak somewhere (but you've already said you've checked); (2) there is something off about your gravity readings -- hydrometers can get out of calibration (that paper inside can slip on ya), and grain bits can throw off even an accurate hydrometer; or (3) you got an infection that ate up your alcohol yield.

[PossumPie]

Depending on the initial ABV of your thumper charge, you should've yielded even more than your theoretical 4 quarts.

Near as I can figure it, you're low yield is caused by one (or more) of three things: (1) you've got a leak somewhere (but you've already said you've checked); (2) there is something off about your gravity readings -- hydrometers can get out of calibration (that paper inside can slip on ya), and grain bits can throw off even an accurate hydrometer; or (3) you got an infection that ate up your alcohol yield.

Not so confused by the low yield, but by the low ABV of the low wines. NOTHING coming off the worm was higher than 40%.
I Don't think infection, it smells/tastes fine; I did get a lactic acid taste in the wash, but that is usually not a problem. I did have a problem with very low pH 3.4 so that may have contributed to the low yield.
I'm wondering about my setup. My thumper sits on top of my still, 90-degree turn, 10"horizontal pipe, 90-degree down turn, then approx 20" drop into a condenser pot. I'm wondering if that long of a drop for the ethanol gas into the condenser may be the problem. I'm looking at a Leibig shotgun condenser to maybe solve some of that issue. The Feints ABV at 0% and have no odor/taste of ethanol.

[Yonder]

Even at 10 20 you should have had a higher abv off the spout. I know you checked but… if you had alcohol in the boiler and alcohol in the thump you should be getting a much higher product. Your thumper’s charge should be at least as high (in abv) as the boiler charge and deep enough to cover the input pipe. Are you losing vapor out the pipe? Is your coolant cool? Go back to your connections from boiler to thumper and thumper to flake; wrap the joint in wet shop toweling or wet paper towel and see if that improves your result.

[Setsumi]

Is your 1.3g oak cask thumper leak proof?

[PossumPie]

Is your 1.3g oak cask thumper leak proof?

Seems to be, no obvious drips/steam

Even at 10 20 you should have had a higher abv off the spout. I know you checked but… if you had alcohol in the boiler and alcohol in the thump you should be getting a much higher product. Your thumper’s charge should be at least as high (in abv) as the boiler charge and deep enough to cover the input pipe. Are you losing vapor out the pipe? Is your coolant cool? Go back to your connections from boiler to thumper and thumper to flake; wrap the joint in wet shop toweling or wet paper towel and see if that improves your result.

My system is an "easy assemble/easy teardown" modification of a 5gal cheapo pot still. I put my copper pipes together without solder, I use an old-time method of flour paste at joints. Once the still is going, it's easy to see any leaks and touch up the paste. I've never had any trouble before. The thumper is a toasted oak cask that I soak over 3 days before I use it. I then plug the bung holes and set it on the counter filled with water to see if it is tightly sealed. The product coming out the worm is room temp so no loss of alcohol there. The downcoming pipe goes to about 2cm from the bottom of the cask and when I charge it with 2qts feints, it's submerged. It thumps like it should as the steam bubbles up.

I find the whole thumper use tedious and have never seen much benefit, so I think next run I'll just leave it off. It's disappointing to do a 10 gallon run and end up with 2qts of final product

[Bolverk]

This seems about right to me... without knowing all your specs I entered what could and made a few estimates and punched it into haggys thumper calculator and everything tracks.

Try it yourself here
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/htm/calc ... umper.html

I see you're disappointed at the yield but you can't exactly blame that on the thumper. You only had about .5 gals of absolute alcohol, if you do a rough estimate and take out your cuts you got everything that you should have.

A thumper is a great tool when used correctly, but it's not going to perform miracles.

Sorry if that came across as me being a dick...

[PossumPie]

This seems about right to me... without knowing all your specs I entered what could and made a few estimates and punched it into haggys thumper calculator and everything tracks.

Try it yourself here
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/htm/calc ... umper.html

I see you're disappointed at the yield but you can't exactly blame that on the thumper. You only had about .5 gals of absolute alcohol, if you do a rough estimate and take out your cuts you got everything that you should have.

A thumper is a great tool when used correctly, but it's not going to perform miracles.

Sorry if that came across as me being a dick...

You came across as being honest... There was something wrong with my pH meter, or something. I've made corn and malt wash before with better results. I'm VERY frustrated b/c I never used pH meters before but after reading many posts, I bought 2 pH meters. They have made things worse, not better. Chasing pH values has not been helpful.
End result of 14.5 lbs cracked corn, 3.6 lbs malted barley, rye, and careful mashing ended up with NOT 4qts of 100%ABV, but 3qts of 40%. I could buy it cheaper at the liquor store. Next run I'm doing corn, malt, rye with added Alpha/beta amylase to make sure I'm getting good production then see if I can get 10% ferment. 5% ferment ABV is a waste of time, ingredients, etc. I could dump 10 lbs sugar into water and get better results. I HATE sugar washes, they seem a cheat, but I need to find my error before I use all grain again. For one, I'm ditching the thumper. They may be great with 55gallon runs, but are junk with 5 gallon runs...

[Bolverk]

There was something wrong with my pH meter or something. I've made corn and malt wash before with better results. I'm VERY frustrated b/c I never used pH meters before but after reading many posts, I bought 2 pH meters. They have made things worse, not better. Chasing pH values has not been helpful.

Been there man, its nice to have one of those electronic pH meters but its not a bad idea to have some back up test strips in case something isn't adding up.

[shadylane]

I decided to use my thumper on a all-grain sourmash run. I had 11 gallons of mash so I had to divide it into 2 fermentors I fermented on the grain. ABV before ferment was 1.060 and after was 1.020...It stalled and nothing I did could drop it to my (hoped for) 1.010. I charged my 1.3 gallon oak cask thumper with 2qts of feints from a run back 3 months ago and fired everything up. When the stream started, I did an alcohol reading and got 40%. This shocked me b/c on stripping runs without thumper I generally get over 80%.

I think the abv measurement on the first stripping without a thumper was faulty.
80% at even the beginning of a potstill stripping run is almost impossible. Even tortured yeast can't make enough alcohol to hit 80% abv after 1 distillation.

[Yonder]

I decided to use my thumper on a all-grain sourmash run. I had 11 gallons of mash so I had to divide it into 2 fermentors I fermented on the grain. ABV before ferment was 1.060 and after was 1.020...It stalled and nothing I did could drop it to my (hoped for) 1.010. I charged my 1.3 gallon oak cask thumper with 2qts of feints from a run back 3 months ago and fired everything up. When the stream started, I did an alcohol reading and got 40%. This shocked me b/c on stripping runs without thumper I generally get over 80%.

I think the abv measurement on the first stripping without a thumper was faulty.
80% at even the beginning of a potstill stripping run is almost impossible. Even tortured yeast can't make enough alcohol to hit 80% abv after 1 distillation.

I’m sorry to disagree but my runs start in the mid 80’s. Every time. I used to use the old rye paste method and found when i wrapped the joints in wet shop cloth the abv improved. I’ve moved on to copper couplings now and, as i said, i run in the 80’s until it drops off. The amount of alcohol in the wash is not as important as the efficiency of the distillation. Your thumper’s charge gets steam distilled but must contain alcohol to begin with, which is enhanced by the alcohol vapor from the boiler.

[PossumPie]

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I think the abv measurement on the first stripping without a thumper was faulty.
80% at even the beginning of a potstill stripping run is almost impossible. Even tortured yeast can't make enough alcohol to hit 80% abv after 1 distillation.

I don't know about 80% ABV during foreshots as being nearly impossible--I average 70-80% on almost all of my foreshots, and very high 70s into the heads on some recipes. That has been with EC-1118 without any turbo/nutrients/add-ins at all. When I first started, I put too much effort into stripping runs-I babied the temp up slowly. I learned later on that just blast through it and collect everything in one container and worry about slow temp rises and cuts during the spirit run.

Been there man, its nice to have one of those electronic pH meters but its not a bad idea to have some back up test strips in case something isn't adding up.

I own 2, which I calibrate every time I use them. They will calibrate correctly, then washing them off and putting them in one of the calibration solutions again, they often give inaccurate readings. NO pH meter will be accurate without replacing the semipermeable probe on a regular basis, but I haven't seen a model under several hundred dollars that has the ability to replace the probes.
Folks who use $900 pH meters in laboratories for commercial/scientific use say they have to calibrate them every time they take a reading and replace the probes regularly.