Submarine boilers

[PalCabral]

This beautiful boiler managed to find its' way to my stream. I've seen similar on Alan Bishop's channel and I am aware it's a modern version of the old moonshine submarine boilers with a wooden side. These ones seem to be very rare. Maybe the rarity is for a good reason? This particular object goes for 1000 bucks at 20g, which is pretty expensive, at last in my book.

So what would be the pros and cons with a boiler this shape? The flat oblong shape should, I guess, speed up heating? Maybe it would promote a more rolling boil? It certainly takes less space being so low, easy to transport in the trunk of a car or packaged below a table/bed (if that would be necessary). For me personally, the size/shape makes it attractive. What other benefits can you see?

The negatives must be cleaning it. This object has a 6 inch man way but the shape makes it harder to reach when you want to hose it out. Not sure I would want to run solids in it. Alan Bishop talks about scorching but I believe it was when running with solids. Other cons?

Does anyone on the forum use one of these, or has used?

Couldn't a similar boiler be built in copper? I think a copper submarine, no wooden side, would look awesome. And it should be easy to build, no? (please note I know virtually nothing about building anything, copper or SS).

Submarine boiler.jpg

[MooseMan]

I have to agree that's a beautiful boiler, I'd love to be able to build one like that.

Whether it's actually a good boiler is a different question!

[Bolverk]

They look cool, but I think they were built because they were cheap and required little skill, not because they were particularly good. Historically if you look at the reputation of shallow stills, you won't find that that are regarded in a good light.

[Tammuz]

They look cool, but I think they were built because they were cheap and required little skill, not because they were particularly good. Historically if you look at the reputation of shallow stills, you won't find that that are regarded in a good light.

Why do you feel they lack especially if it was a copper boiler? Wide bottom better heat transfer, curved sides help move the Wash/mash, less foaming. The downside I see is the top wouldn't be as rigid to hold a heavy column.

[PalCabral]

They look cool, but I think they were built because they were cheap and required little skill, not because they were particularly good. Historically if you look at the reputation of shallow stills, you won't find that that are regarded in a good light.

True. With a wooden side/end, it's obvious it was not built to last. But there are merits to wide boilers, at least according to Odin. He claims that the wider design means more evaporation, higher speed, and a more controlled distillation. He also claims they can be filled to a higher degree than the more classic cylinder shaped boilers. I know, Odin is a salesman too, and the case he is making for the wider boiler is hard for me to fact check, but I also consider him a pretty smart guy, who I am not qualified to question. Certainly, the iStill design is a far cry from the submarines of Virginia back in the day.

When it comes to this particular boiler, I have no idea if the design is good. But they are eye candy.

[ozark_jake]

I thought the motivation was just to make it easier to position below ground or at least close to the surface, making it harder for the authorities to spot. I don't think it had anything to do with product quality, at least originally.

[Tammuz]

I thought the motivation was just to make it easier to position below ground or at least close to the surface, making it harder for the authorities to spot. I don't think it had anything to do with product quality, at least originally.

Originally I think the design was because wood was free. Cut down on the expense of buying galvanized sheets.

[Bolverk]

Why do you feel they lack especially if it was a copper boiler? Wide bottom better heat transfer, curved sides help move the Wash/mash, less foaming. The downside I see is the top wouldn't be as rigid to hold a heavy column.

I have no opinion either way, just mentioned that "shallow stills" historically arent regarded well... could very well be how they were operated. The idea was to do the stripping run in a shallow and boil the piss iut of it so they could get to the spirit run.

[Copperhead road]

Pal is the company selling these a well known distilling equipment manufacturer and what country are they from????

It would be no good for distilling fruit pulp for brandy because Cleaning the boiler would definitely be problematic.

[NZChris]

...But there are merits to wide boilers, at least according to Odin. He claims that the wider design means more evaporation, higher speed, and a more controlled distillation.

That was years ago, I wonder if he still claims that? That claim contradicts the laws of physics, surface area is not part of the equation. The only way to increase the rate of evaporation is to apply more heat.

[Saltbush Bill]

This subject has been bought up a heap of times before, there are entire threads about it.
Fom memory , shape / surface area makes little to no difference at a hobby level.
Obviously a wide bottom / more surface area , will heat quicker if using gas or other non electric means.

[LWTCS]

Any benefit isn't even measurable until well beyond hobby volumes.
Like, hundreds upon hundreds of gallons/ liters beyond. Well into commercial volumes.

[decoy]

In my ooopinion you got your self an excellent boiler...

The europeans use a shallow boiler with a stirrer to do plum, apricot and grape brandy and spirits.
The mash they use is very thick and can scorch easily.

Shallow boilers as said have a larger surface area so are less prone to spot heating and scorching perticulalry when used over flame like wood or gas.

If you got a 12" triclova ferule clamp and cap a stainless shop would cut and weld a port into the top of it.

[PalCabral]

Pal is the company selling these a well known distilling equipment manufacturer and what country are they from????

It would be no good for distilling fruit pulp for brandy because Cleaning the boiler would definitely be problematic.

These guys are called DRC Stainless Works, Copper, and I think they’re from the US. But I know very little about them except what’s on their homepage. Custom made SS stuff. Not sure I fancy their still heads but that’s the beauty of tri clamped components, you can mix stuff. Ozark Still Works also have a submarine boiler, the one they made in collab with Alan Bishop.

[NormandieStill]

DRC stainless feature an "infusion" still head which lets you attach a mason jar as a thumper. I'm prepared to say that their entire aesthetic is inspired by the Moonshiners TV series and that no serious distillers were involved in the design process!

The submarine boiler design only really makes sense if using gas / wood. The electric element port is going to require that the boiler be nearly half full to cover it which will limit you to full boiler charges when distilling.

I like the look of submarine boilers but only because of the wooden sides. It's a similar look to the Badmo barrels.

[PalCabral]

In the old AD forum there were a few guys who build submarine boilers, it would have been interesting to hear an account from someone who actually uses them. Besides the cool design, I am not sure if I find any strong benefits from it besides the heating time, and for me and my 25L to 40L charges heating time is hardly an issue. Nor is it difficult for me store the 50L boiler between runs, although I admit I think a shallow tank would be easier to find a place for in my basement.

I don't follow this Moonshine nonsense on TV, Norm, but I suspect that's where it's coming from. It seems to have created quite an interest for moonshining in the US. It's a fascination of a past that I personally can't relate to. Just like the trillion Godfather/mafia movies and TV series. They bore me, TBH. Time for me to run a spirit run now - gotta go.

[Saltbush Bill]

DRC stainless feature an "infusion" still head which lets you attach a mason jar as a thumper. I'm prepared to say that their entire aesthetic is inspired by the Moonshiners TV series and that no serious distillers were involved in the design process!

100% right Normandistill , anyone marketing a still featuring mason jar thumpers is only interested in one thing.
Marketing and selling anything they can to those who know no better.
That and the Submarine will guarantee them sales.

[PalCabral]

...But there are merits to wide boilers, at least according to Odin. He claims that the wider design means more evaporation, higher speed, and a more controlled distillation.

That was years ago, I wonder if he still claims that? That claim contradicts the laws of physics, surface area is not part of the equation. The only way to increase the rate of evaporation is to apply more heat.

This I don't know. At least the claims are still avaiable on the iStill homepage but the date mentioned is from 2015, so if Odin has changed his mind he certainly hasn't updated the homepage. Whether his claims are scientifically correct or not, I am not qualified to judge. All I know is that he's a professional and I'm not.

[NZChris]

Whether his claims are scientifically correct or not, I am not qualified to judge. All I know is that he's a professional and I'm not.

It's easy. Look up Latent heat of evaporation. I bet you can't find an equation that takes into account surface area.

[decoy]

...But there are merits to wide boilers, at least according to Odin. He claims that the wider design means more evaporation, higher speed, and a more controlled distillation.

I would agree with:
More evaporation, how discernible would it be on a hobby level, 300mm v's 600mm vs 1200mm, with greater depth their is more pressure at the bottom of the boiler.

Higher speed and controlled Distillation would not apply to immersed electric elements, however with woodfire or gas this would be a correct statement.

First thing that comes to mind is placing this boiler on a gas BBQ with 3-5 burners.

BBQ Still.jpg

[fzbwfk9r]

It's easy. Look up Latent heat of evaporation. I bet you can't find an equation that takes into account surface area.

Exactly

this is why water doesn't evaporate faster from a wide pond water surface the water surface in a deep narrow hole....

oh... wait...

[BlackStrap]

It's all about American nostalgia...

[Saltbush Bill]

this is why water doesn't evaporate faster from a wide pond water surface the water surface in a deep narrow hole....

oh... wait...

And different depth ponds with different surface areas dont have artificial heat being applied to thier arses via electric elements or gas rings.

[Salt Must Flow]

PalCabral, it is an interesting shaped boiler. Considering the price and it's size, I'd prefer a stainless drum. They come in multiple sizes. Stainless drums are less expensive and can be modified easy enough, especially if you can weld or know of someone who TIG welds stainless. A lot of stuff you can solder or use Tri-Clamp bulkhead fittings. I prefer stainless drums because they have a relatively small footprint and they're easy to roll around with swivel casters. They are also very simple to insulate with Reflectix & Reflectix tape. Drums are easy to rinse & drain through the side. Just give it a little tip and you can hose it out through a 6" Tri-Clamp ferrule on top. Below is a 4" x 6' column, a 6" x 4" reducer and the insulated drum boiler. It has two Tri-Clamp ferrules for 2 heating elements and a 1-1/2" ball valve for a drain. I installed a copper thermowell too. It does everything I need it to do.







My first thought about the shape of that boiler is the large amount of surface area in comparison to its volume. It would be more awkward to insulate. Having such a wide base would make it very stable, but a drum is PLENTY stable especially when filled.

Have you seen the threads here about a year ago, there is/was a company that sells 30 gal beer kegs. It's exactly like a 15.5 gal keg, but twice the size. Even that cost less than this submarine boiler if I recall correctly. Even then the price was much higher than a stainless drum.

[Tammuz]

I believe it depends on the wash.. I don't believe it would be hard to use some 316 stainless steel and run maybe 8 ft in that submarine. Keeping it low density. Something like some of the elements I've seen shady play with but much longer. Add some CO2 or other inert gas to agitate with similar to what Alan B was playing with. Would help if your height challenged. Using copper I think would put too much side pressure on your walls. You could brace a column to take the weight off the top.

[fzbwfk9r]

And different sized ponds with different surface areas dont have artificial heat being applied to thier arses via electric elements or gas rings.

Trudat

as soon as you apply energy to the liquid, "evaporation" no longer is applicable, as it is not forced

narrow, wide... I don't think at a hobby size, it is a measurable difference

But when you narrow down the path, vapour speed does have to increase, Right?
AND the more narrow, the more back pressure
the more back pressure the higher the boiler temp

I think this is one of the reasons thumpers can work better than I'd intuitively imagine on first glance.

[Tammuz]

This boiler has a wide surface area, if you add a wider column this would decrease the velocity.This would allow for less smearing and a better chance of making better cuts.

Edit: This boiler would allow for more evaporation I believe if you kept the wash below boiling and had some type of agitation.

[Saltbush Bill]

This boiler would allow for more evaporation I believe if you kept the wash below boiling and had some type of agitation.

If its not boiling no product will be leaving the still.

[Tammuz]

Damn bill I'm just too tired to argue with you. So let's just drop this back to a fifth grade level you're sitting on your porch it rains 80° F outside what the f*** is happening to the water on the street and your sidewalk. Is it still going to be there in the morning. Or did some fairy come along and dry up the street and the sidewalk at night. The agitation I mentioned in that boiler would push anything out at that temperature. You're too hung up on boiling points equal evaporation. The water temperature boiling points much higher than your methanol or aldehydes what other crap you have in your boiler. But it will evap.

[shadylane]

Whether his claims are scientifically correct or not, I am not qualified to judge. All I know is that he's a professional and I'm not.

It's easy. Look up Latent heat of evaporation. I bet you can't find an equation that takes into account surface area.

I had to do an experiment using an electric corny keg to convince myself that surface area of boiling water doesn't make a difference in the steam produced. I ran the keg upright and measured the condensate, then tilted it over so there was more surface area and ran it again.
The outcome was the same. Extra surface area doesn't make any difference.