8" plates

[Copperhead road]

I'm confused as normal. What do you mean by blocks?

Sorry mate I did realise that them rectangular blocks were hollow. Is this classed a bubble cap?

[shadylane]

Don't know if rectangular caps are still called caps but the principle is the same.

[shadylane]

Here's a pic to help wrap your head around what the caps "might" look like.
These worked but I think having the downcomers on the long end of the rectangular caps would have been better.
That and have the ends of the caps closed off at the bottoms so they don't blow towards the downcomer.
The cap ends could be soldered to the plate to hold the cap in position.

[Yummyrum]

I did some cross flow tests on my 4” by deliberately collecting and diverting the reflux from the Deflag and forcing it to the oppersite side to the weir verses having it fall randomly all over the plate and the difference was barely detectable .

From my flute build on Australian home distiller forum
https://australianhomedistiller.com.au/ ... 250#p28645

Pics for those that aren’t members and can’t see them

IMG_3430.jpeg

IMG_3431.jpeg

IMG_3432.jpeg

IMG_3433.jpeg

IMG_3434.jpeg

Maybe this has less of an effect at 4” and more effect at 8” .But my gut feeling is it is sitting hairs at home distiller level .

[LWTCS]

Middle detail is best for optimal (axial) mixing.

It does look like the best option since none of the plates are blowing directly at the mouth of the downcomer.

Shady is there a name for plates with the blocks on them?

Blocks? Do you mean the rectangular chimneys? Or do you mean the corresponding rectangular bubble caps?
This design is called a (wait for it),,,,Rectangular Bubble Cap Tray.
Also kown as a Tunnel Cap Tray. Or a Slot Bubble cap tray.
It is a simple, high capacity design that allows liquid to flow between the tunnels and vapor exits from the sides. It promotes mixing while not obstructing flow to the downcomer/wier as long as the chimneys are spaced uniformly and the corners maintain that perscribed minimal distance off of the column wall. This is important to prevent flooding and allows for higher through put.

[LWTCS]

Here's a pic to help wrap your head around what the caps "might" look like.
These worked but I think having the downcomers on the long end of the rectangular caps would have been better.
That and have the ends of the caps closed off at the bottoms so they don't blow towards the downcomer.
The cap ends could be soldered to the plate to hold the cap in position.

Yessir, that orientation may give you more real-estate for uniform chimney length. But promotes dead zones with respect to flow / drainage while also allowing that first cap closest to the DC to blow liquid directly to the DC.

[LWTCS]

I did some cross flow tests on my 4” by deliberately collecting and diverting the reflux from the Deflag and forcing it to the oppersite side to the weir verses having it fall randomly all over the plate and the difference was barely detectable .

From my flute build on Australian home distiller forum
https://australianhomedistiller.com.au/ ... 250#p28645

Pics for those that aren’t members and can’t see them
IMG_3430.jpegIMG_3431.jpegIMG_3432.jpegIMG_3433.jpegIMG_3434.jpeg

Maybe this has less of an effect at 4” and more effect at 8” .But my gut feeling is it is sitting hairs at home distiller level .

With a 4" diameter the cross flow impact is probably not measurable?
And perhaps only slightly more measurable on the 8"?
But regardless of the diameter, its still best to use optimal design geometry.

[Yummyrum]

I did some cross flow tests on my 4” by deliberately collecting and diverting the reflux from the Deflag and forcing it to the oppersite side to the weir verses having it fall randomly all over the plate and the difference was barely detectable .

From my flute build on Australian home distiller forum
https://australianhomedistiller.com.au/ ... 250#p28645

Pics for those that aren’t members and can’t see them
IMG_3430.jpegIMG_3431.jpegIMG_3432.jpegIMG_3433.jpegIMG_3434.jpeg

Maybe this has less of an effect at 4” and more effect at 8” .But my gut feeling is it is sitting hairs at home distiller level .

With a 4" diameter the cross flow impact is probably not measurable?
And perhaps only slightly more measurable on the 8"?
But regardless of the diameter, its still best to use optimal design geometry.

The perfectionist in me agrees with this concept

[LWTCS]

@shady'
Earlier today Bloverk shared some plate designs with me.
Some inefficiency is a benefit for flavored spirits.
Extending liquid dwell time maybe is the goal compared to text book plate behavior?

Ill let him chime on the plate design he shared. Though we both agree that there is an easier way to accomplish the goal of enhancing flavored spirits compared to the complicated plate design used by French Cognac producers.

[Bolverk]

Shady

Heres that plate

Screenshot_20251130_075140_Instagram.jpg

Im not sure its right for a batch system though.. I mean im sure it would work, but it seems to me that its real benefit is in a continuous system where you are trying to improve dwell time on your beer/wine.

[LWTCS]

Thanks Bloverk.
Yeah so many variables depending upon the desired outcome.

Good news is shady has enough background to make his own conclusions.

Looking forward to the progression of this thread.

[shadylane]

Shady

Heres that plate

Screenshot_20251130_075140_Instagram.jpg

Im not sure its right for a batch system though.. I mean im sure it would work, but it seems to me that its real benefit is in a continuous system where you are trying to improve dwell time on your beer/wine.

Thanks Bolverk, I've seen pics of plates just like that. Not of those but the same design where the reflux had to follow a labyrinth to get to the DC.
As you pointed out it would work great for a tall stack of plates.

[shadylane]

@shady'
Earlier today Bloverk shared some plate designs with me.
Some inefficiency is a benefit for flavored spirits.
Extending liquid dwell time maybe is the goal compared to text book plate behavior?

Kinda what I was thing about dwell time.
Design for longer dwell time so vapor can reboil the reflux without undo frothing from the vapor blowing past the reflux.
An equal liquid level above all the caps would be nice but difficult to do.
Speaking of liquid level and dwell how deep for 8" plates, 1 inch maybe?

[LWTCS]

The 1" depth is not a problem but use a .236" (6 mm) wide x .375" (9.525 mm) high slot on your bubble caps to make the still head more insensitive to any pressure drop associated with that liquid bed depth.
Chimney width : 1.25" if using 2/4" long chimneys on either side with a 3" in the center.

How much power were you planning on throwing at the still during collection?

[30xs]

Think he’s referring to the up comer as a block due to the rectangle shape.

[Setsumi]

How much power were you planning on throwing at the still during collection?

^ AND collection rate...

Not that I am in the race, slower get you done as well.

[shadylane]

The 1" depth is not a problem but use a .236" (6 mm) wide x .375" (9.525 mm) high slot on your bubble caps to make the still head more insensitive to any pressure drop associated with that liquid bed depth.
Chimney width : 1.25" if using 2/4" long chimneys on either side with a 3" in the center.

How much power were you planning on throwing at the still during collection?

Thanks for the dimensions
The boiler is capable of 7.8kw but just guessing probably around 4 - 5kw and 4 - 6 ltrs per hour. With the boiler charged with lowines.

[LWTCS]

The 1" depth is not a problem but use a .236" (6 mm) wide x .375" (9.525 mm) high slot on your bubble caps to make the still head more insensitive to any pressure drop associated with that liquid bed depth.
Chimney width : 1.25" if using 2/4" long chimneys on either side with a 3" in the center.

How much power were you planning on throwing at the still during collection?

Thanks for the dimensions
The boiler is capable of 7.8kw but just guessing probably around 4 - 5kw and 4 - 6 ltrs per hour. With the boiler charged with lowines.

Ok great. Those dimensions are predicated upon 4500 watts.
But I feel your system will otherwise have plenty of operating range and really won't be bothered by not adhering to text book specifications.

Text book calls for 6" plate spacings btw. But we already know that 4" works just fine.

[shadylane]

I need my head examined. First parts ordered.

3Pcs Copper Sheet - 18 Gauge(1.02mm) Thickness 12" x 12" 99.9%+ Copper Plate
2Pcs 13 quart Heavy Duty Stainless Steel Bucket

[30xs]

I need my head examined. First parts ordered.

3Pcs Copper Sheet - 18 Gauge(1.02mm) Thickness 12" x 12" 99.9%+ Copper Plate
2Pcs 13 quart Heavy Duty Stainless Steel Bucket

Head looks normal. Proceed.

[shadylane]

The 1" depth is not a problem but use a .236" (6 mm) wide x .375" (9.525 mm) high slot on your bubble caps to make the still head more insensitive to any pressure drop associated with that liquid bed depth.

Something like this with an equal sized gap between the slots?

[shadylane]

I'm thinking about grinding triangular notches on the bottom of the caps instead of cutting slots.

[Yummyrum]

The 1" depth is not a problem but use a .236" (6 mm) wide x .375" (9.525 mm) high slot on your bubble caps to make the still head more insensitive to any pressure drop associated with that liquid bed depth.
Chimney width : 1.25" if using 2/4" long chimneys on either side with a 3" in the center.

How much power were you planning on throwing at the still during collection?

Thanks for the dimensions
The boiler is capable of 7.8kw but just guessing probably around 4 - 5kw and 4 - 6 ltrs per hour. With the boiler charged with lowines.

Ok great. Those dimensions are predicated upon 4500 watts.
But I feel your system will otherwise have plenty of operating range and really won't be bothered by not adhering to text book specifications.

Text book calls for 6" plate spacings btw. But we already know that 4" works just fine.

Larry , what are you using to get your numbers on this ?
Is it something freely available or is it Proprietary ?

[shadylane]

I need my head examined. First parts ordered.

3Pcs Copper Sheet - 18 Gauge(1.02mm) Thickness 12" x 12" 99.9%+ Copper Plate
2Pcs 13 quart Heavy Duty Stainless Steel Bucket

Head looks normal. Proceed.

Head looks normal? My location is Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

[shadylane]

Maybe I'll use this plate idea.
Three caps 110mm long X 25mm wide X 25mm tall.
I'm thinking about omitting the cap slots near the downcomer to let the reflux settle down before draining.
Don't know if that's needed or I'm trying to design roll down windows on a submarine.

[30xs]

I need my head examined. First parts ordered.

3Pcs Copper Sheet - 18 Gauge(1.02mm) Thickness 12" x 12" 99.9%+ Copper Plate
2Pcs 13 quart Heavy Duty Stainless Steel Bucket

Head looks normal. Proceed.

Head looks normal? My location is Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

You always find the best hiding spots, and had the best outside of the box creations.

[shadylane]

Maybe use five caps that are narrower.

[LWTCS]

Is that a scaled diagram? The actual ID on the chimneys is what?

5 chimneys with the gaps needed to also install the bubble caps and have a measure of clearance will increase your potential open area through put.
But the trade off is the potential for choking down the flow path and promoting flooding.

Mitigation for this potential bad behavior would be to reduce power input to ensure a less restrictive flow path to the downcomer. Certainly it'll create a more torturous path for optimal flavor retention, but will increase the likelihood of flooding at the higher end of power use. And with no sight glasses it'll be even harder to drive.

3 chimneys is optimal. 1.25" chimney width is optimal.
1.5" diameter for the DC.
The triangular notches are fine. .25" wide at the base and .375" tall. Notches are not needed on the ends of the bubble caps from a mechanical standpoint. But having notches on the ends may help create an eddy / vortex that will help with flavor retention. Exploiting a hydraulic inefficiency to enhance flavor so to speak like we discussed with the French plate system.

I guess it depends how much power you want to be able to throw at the thing?

[shadylane]

Here's what I'm thinking for the cap design.

[shadylane]

After hours of searching for info on rectangular caps I've noticed there's almost nothing, everybody uses round caps.
It makes me wonder if I'm digging rabbit holes in the wrong direction.
But I hate to give up on rectangle caps because several of them are easier to make than many round ones.