Plates Plates Plates

[Setsumi]

No interest?

deff interested. Planning on building a flute when I have a week of Sundays. Will it work for 4 x 4" plates with a packed 600mm x 3"? Sorry mixing metric and imperial.. was planning on single bubble cap with center downcommer. Your 8-50% variable for openings are quite large, what would be optimal? No downcommer?

[Yummyrum]

Dad300 , googe made these flapper discs several years ago that sounds similar . No down comers , just several big holes and a single floppy disc that flapped about to let the vapour through .Holes seemed to self regulate the plate level some how .

Googes thing worked but it used a synthetic flap disc .... obviously a no-no and never made drinkable booze but it was a proof of concept . Perhaps your random packing is the answer .

I’ve Always been keen on plated stripping column . This could be the ticket with the big holes to reduce fouling I’d imagine would happen if using regular plates.

[DAD300]

Setsumi, it has worked on one 4" plate under a packed column, so I don't see a problem with more.

I always thought the single flap would work just fine with a thin sheet of copper or SS. I don't think the flap has to seal absolutely perfectly. It only has to be good enough to get a pool built up on it, much like any sieve plate leaks a little.

I added a crazy simple downcomer to an upper plate yesterday. Took out a bubble cap downcomer and dropped a piece of 1/2" tube to the lower plate. The upper end is a tad higher than the bubble cap nest to it. The lower end has two inverted "v"'s cut in it.

Now, just like I experienced with the sieve plate holes being "to large", I didn't solder this downcomer in place. It has a slight gap all the way around. Worked perfect! This makes for a self draining plate (this is a big deal for cleaning), no fancy machining, no soldering assembly,...I bought SS disks for about $4usd a piece off ebay.

When I get a complete plate made and pretty I'll post a pic. Will be a while.

[Setsumi]

Thanks Dad. Yes I see that a plate that is self draining will be beneficial. If I do a cap I will put a small hole in the plate and the downcommer stop. On the flap plate, yesterday I was at the scrap metal shop there was a rol of copper plate about 400mm wide... No I did not pick some up. Thought it to thin for plates. And from history I know it would be gone by now.

[DAD300]

I got my SS plates roughed out and ready to finish, debur and polish.

No welding/soldering Stainless Steel Perf Plate.

These are .047" stainless steel plates, 8" dia with 1/8" holes for approx 11% open area.

The downcomer tube is 1" dia by 4" long cut from a beer keg spear with a small SS shot cup screwed to the bottom. Held on top by a 1/2" length of same keg spear cut as a "C" clip to hold the top. The "C" clip keeps it adjustable. for height. The shot cup has a tiny hole in the bottom to make it self draining.

I failed at trying to stack the plates for drilling and had to drill each plate separate.

The precut 304 SS plates were $7usd each, Shot glass was .50 (fifty cents), a #4 SS sheet Metal screw was .10 and I'll consider the keg spear free since most throw them away.

In the next week or so these will be sanded/polished and installed with 1" of SPP on each of four plates and Copper pipe connectors on one plate as a catalyst.

Engineering specifications say the required power for a 1/8" perf plate hole to hold liquid is 45 watts per hole. But the Packing on the plate is going to allow this plate to hold liquid at lower power settings. This is the Self Adjusting feature I posted earlier. With less power the packing will close off the holes and reduce the Open Area. So, the Open Area can be less than 11%. With more power applied the vapor will just push the packing aside.

[emptyglass]

Thought you'd have softened your view on stainless by now DAD.

Of anything in a plated column/flute, the plates should really be copper.

And you can stack drill them with ease.

[DAD300]

No, as the column has gotten bigger, getting to copper on the inside is harder. I seem to never be able to keep it clean. It fowls between runs. I have a CIP port at the top, but not enough.

If I can put the copper in a "T" where I can get it in and out, it means less strife.

I'm not have any ferment issues, so we'll try more stainless, less copper.

[emptyglass]

I dont understand why you'd think more copper is harder.

Can you expand this discussion?

Perhaps the fact you have issues with cleanliness is proof that the stainless material you are using isnt performing as advertised. It does nothing for the removal of unwanted flavours in your end product, it simply processes them without advantage or disadvantage.

Where as copper does have some advantages.

As far as my research has gone, I've never seen the ability of being able to put stainless parts in a dishwasher being a distinct advantage to distilleries in Scotland. They don't seem to GAF about that. If you really want, you can put copper modular parts in a dishwasher too, they are no different in size.

But why would you?

The patina that forms on copper parts negates the need. Its been proven to improve the taste of what a home stiller can make.

If you want to refer to the unproven, slightly rumour mongering EC debate, I kindly request you bump one of your old threads about that and not take it up here. Most of us dont got time to flog a dead donkey.

[DAD300]

Nah, no EC, that's for each individual.

At present I have to mash in my still. I distill six batches and mash six batches. Stainless 8" with copper plates and bubble caps. I wash the column in between mashing and distilling with citric acid and water. I've tried to close off the column while mashing, but I seem to upset the copper patina and end up with green. I desire to cut some time from my "janitorial" list.

I've managed to wring a lot of performance from my copper bubble caps, but hope these sieve plates will be better.

So, while waiting on a dedicated mash tun I made these plates.

[emptyglass]

I dont have much I can share with you DAD that hasn't already been proven.

I understand you are a well researched guy.

I've tasted some very fine product from both stainless and copper stills, I think the jury is out on that decision. I feel it comes down to how the wash or mash is made over and above how its run or what its run through. And personal tastes.

Its really splitting hairs.

Forward a step, a well fermented and well made rum will come down to how its aged. That could be said for most brown spirits. Including whiskey.

But if you like your rum white, then its another discussion altogether.

IMO, how you ferment your wash and what you like to drink play a big part in how you manage how you make your wash, and how you plan to post age it.

[WillieP]

In the next week or so these will be sanded/polished and installed with 1" of SPP on each of four plates and Copper pipe connectors on one plate as a catalyst.

Hey Dad300,
How did/is the adjustable plate plan work/working out for you?
I'm working on the design phase of a 3 inch perforated plate build, and this concept is really interesting to me.

Thanks a ton,

WillieP.

[DAD300]

It has works very well. I ended up putting a SS Scrubbie on each plate as the filler.

I changed the attachment of the shot cup to tube by drilling a hole all through cup-tube-cup and running safety wire through them. This way the cup hangs square. Makes the reflux drop more evenly.

With SS Scrubbies on them they stack liquid very quickly. Not as quickly as a bubble cap plate. The 1" dia downcomer is adequate, doesn't flood.

The design of not soldering around the downcomer tube works. If it's a reasonable press fit, it has less bypass than any of the holes in the plate. I think this would work with bubble caps also.

If I were to change something, I would try a dif downcomer arrangement. I would make a blank landing zone on the plate for the above plate downcomer and run the tube all the way to the plate. I don't think the reflux distribution would be better, I just think it might be easier to build.

I'll get an action picture as soon as I can.

[WillieP]

It has works very well. I ended up putting a SS Scrubbie on each plate as the filler.

I changed the attachment of the shot cup to tube by drilling a hole all through cup-tube-cup and running safety wire through them. This way the cup hangs square. Makes the reflux drop more evenly.

With SS Scrubbies on them they stack liquid very quickly. Not as quickly as a bubble cap plate. The 1" dia downcomer is adequate, doesn't flood.

The design of not soldering around the downcomer tube works. If it's a reasonable press fit, it has less bypass than any of the holes in the plate. I think this would work with bubble caps also.

If I were to change something, I would try a dif downcomer arrangement. I would make a blank landing zone on the plate for the above plate downcomer and run the tube all the way to the plate. I don't think the reflux distribution would be better, I just think it might be easier to build.

I'll get an action picture as soon as I can.

Dad300,
Thanks for the follow up on this.
So if we reduce this down to a 3 inch column:
went with 3/32 inch holes (like the original OD plate)(easier to drill)
(and shot for 10 to 12 % open area)
but used the non soldered downcomer (in 1/2 inch) and the packing on the plate
as you just described.
Do you think it's do-able?

Would you make the bottom end of the downcomer cut at a 45, or V notched, or vertical slices?
On the top side of the plate, how high would you leave the downcomer? Does it matter, because the packing will hold the liquid depth anyway.
Thanks for walking me through this!
WillieP

[DAD300]

The 3/32" oles won't be easier to drill and you'll probably break bits. But it will work. Any of the cuts at the bottom of the downcomer will work.

[DAD300]

So, here's two pics of the plates I made in action.

The work and work well, but of course I would make changes.

This is my first/lowest plate, not fully loaded yet. This is how I get a cleanable copper catalyst in my column. First plate above the pot and I can reach in and get them out for cleaning if necessary.

This is about a two inch bath depth. I hope you can see the downcomer on the right, it is right at bath depth.

They operate at peak abv on about a 10% tolerance, 45% - 55% power.

Changes...I would have maybe 5% fewer holes and make the downcomers smaller. But they are keepers!