I know beating a dead horse

Kernal · Post by **Kernal** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:14 pm

Ive just gotten started on my 1st build and I have bought a PID controller and SSR and all the works without doing a whole lot of research, but anyway would it be OK to use the PID to control my 5500watt element and adjust my Temperature according to my output. I'm thinking I can keep a measurment of my output in a time frame and regulate my Temperature manually with the controller and use the Alarm outputs to stop the process when getting out of the heart of the spirits.

Post by **WalkingWolf** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:06 pm

I'd recommend you put away all that fancy/smansy, abbrieviated/numbered thing-a-ma-jiggies and learn how to run a still. If ya new to the game you got a lot of learning to do. You aught to be ashamed of yourself barging in here like this on your first post. Go over to the Welcome Center and give a proper introduction (aint yo momma learned you no better

)

Post by **Prairiepiss** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:12 pm

Please review this post I made in the heating element control thread.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p6960978

Post by **MuleKicker** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:16 pm

Why you can't control a still with boiler temperature

Washashore · Post by **Washashore** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:16 pm

Holy cow....you SERIOUSLY need to slow your roll! Remember, "the earth is slow, and the bison is patient".

Seriously though, you need to do quite a bit more research. You do not want to control the temperature of the boiler, you want to control the heat input (those are to very different variables). Since the contents of your boiler will have a mixture of various liquids with various boiling points, the temperature of the boil will change as the run progresses and lower boiling point liquids begin to vaporize.

Using a PID to sustain a constant temperature will cause a cycling of your heater element to maintain a constant temperature. That will result in destabilization of the equilibrium in your column that your trying to achieve and smear your cuts together.

If your PID has a manual override, where you can apply a consistent heat (which it should have) based upon a percentage of voltage that it allows to your element, then you're good to go...."set it and forget it" so to speak. You're going for a simmer--just enough to get the alcohols to vaporize, not a rolling boil. This consistent heat will allow your column to achieve an equilibrium and have a "strata" so to speak of alcohol vapors just waiting to be pulled out. Good luck and be safe

Kernal · Post by **Kernal** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:06 pm

Sorry I forgot to mention this is my 1st Build not my 1st time distilling I bought my still already built, sorry for the confusion. Right now I have a small reflux still and my heat source is a electric Hot Plate and so far (few months now) its been fairly successful in putting out some good spirits. I have tested the PID and I can get a varible heat source from it(via parameters) without it cycling, just wanting to see if I can manually adjust my heat source (PID Controller) according to my output

Washashore · Post by **Washashore** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:35 pm

Kernal wrote: just wanting to see if I can manually adjust my heat source (PID Controller) according to my output

I'm a little confused. Did you read mule kickers link above? Adjusting the heat input (even if it is a consistent heat and not cycling) will prevent your still from achieving equilibrium. Why do you want to adjust heat according to output?

Kernal · Post by **Kernal** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:10 pm

I was thinking if my wash starts cooking at say 172 deg and my PID is set at 173, I get good output say 1/2 ounce a min for 15min, but starts to drop to 1/3 ounce a min turn the PID set point to say 175 deg to increase the output back to 1/2 ounce a min then keep doing that until the alcohol is depleted. I guess it would take a lot of trial and error

I'm thinking of just getting a phase angle controller and just using the PID for monitoring if this gets to convoluted

Washashore · Post by **Washashore** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:22 pm

No need for a phase angle controller if you have a PID with a manual override. The manual override will allow you to adjust voltage to heater element from 0-100%. This would be useful for bringing the wash up to temp and then backing down to a simmer. Adjust output depending upon your still (VM/LM/or CM).

Post by **Prairiepiss** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:18 pm

Kernal wrote:I was thinking if my wash starts cooking at say 172 deg and my PID is set at 173, I get good output say 1/2 ounce a min for 15min, but starts to drop to 1/3 ounce a min turn the PID set point to say 175 deg to increase the output back to 1/2 ounce a min then keep doing that until the alcohol is depleted. I guess it would take a lot of trial and error

I'm thinking of just getting a phase angle controller and just using the PID for monitoring if this gets to convoluted

You are not getting it. If you set the temp to 173 you won't be getting anything out of it. 172 is the boiling point of the alcohol at 100% ABV but its mixed with water that has a boiling point of 212. So the boiling point of the combined liquids will be somewhere between 172 and 212 depending on the ABV. And you won't get anything if you don't bring it to a boil. It's not about temp control. The wash controls the temp. It is about heat input. The more heat you put into it the the harder it will boil and the more vapors it will create. It's explained pretty good in the thread MK provided. Read over it a few more times. Until you get the ah ha moment. Then read it again.

Post by **MuleKicker** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:19 pm

Kernal wrote:I was thinking if my wash starts cooking at say 172 deg and my PID is set at 173, I get good output say 1/2 ounce a min for 15min, but starts to drop to 1/3 ounce a min turn the PID set point to say 175 deg to increase the output back to 1/2 ounce a min then keep doing that until the alcohol is depleted. I guess it would take a lot of trial and error

I'm thinking of just getting a phase angle controller and just using the PID for monitoring if this gets to convoluted

Forget about using the pid to control the temp. IT DOESNT WORK THAT WAY. The temp reading on the pid is a novelty. you can use the pid to set power output, not based on vapor temp.

One more time.....
WHY YOU CANT CONTROL A STILL WITH BOILER TEMP

Kernal · Post by **Kernal** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:07 am

I'm getting another kind of controller. I get what you guys are saying now the chart on the previous link helped, thanks guys

Bob421 · Post by **Bob421** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:07 am

Kernal wrote:I'm getting another kind of controller. I get what you guys are saying now the chart on the previous link helped, thanks guys

I think you can use the controller you have. Use it in manual mode instead of temp control mode.

Kernal · Post by **Kernal** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:11 pm

I tried the PID in manual today and there isnt a manual in the one I have (china chit) so I have dropped down to 2- 2500watt elements at 220v and 2- SCR's with true linear output for my control. I'm still going to use my PID just for Temperature monitoring and limit control, ya live ya learn

Home Distiller

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