Hot Water Heather Thermostat

[ThrownOlive]

Hey guys,
Currently I've got a 1gal stovetop potstill but I'm looking to convert a SS halfkeg I've got into my new still. An internal element seems like the way I'd like to go and I'm wondering if it's possible to just use a waterheater thermostat to control the element rather than something like Mulekicker's control units? Or would it be possible to plug in an element directly, without any controller and run it at full power until the boiler is up to temp?

I've read lots of posts about all this and I haven't seen a reason not to use a $8 hot water heater thermostat? Ideas?

Thanks

[heartcut]

The water heater thermostat will turn the element slowly on and off to maintain temperature, making the temperature go up and down and causing unsteady vapor production and boil-ups. The control devices that work (like Mulekicker's rigs) turn the elements on and off really fast, controlling at a steady temperature, which is what you want.

[Coaster]

@ ThrownOlive,

A water heater thermostat will not work because it cycles from fully on to fully off which makes controlling Still temperature very difficult. Cycling Still temperature causes smearing making accurate foreshot/head/heart/tail cuts very difficult.

To accurately control a water heater element you need a controller that allows for precise consistent temperature control without element on/off cycling. Suggest considering a PSR-25 phase angle controller.

Suggest viewing the Phase Angle Control Modules thread in the New Distiller Reading Lounge and note Forum Member MuleKicker Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:30PM posting in that thread for detailed information and a simple wiring diagram for building a PSR-25 phase angle controller.

Regards,
Coaster

[MuleKicker]

Sorry to butt in, but you are both wrong. You cannot control still temperature. Let me repeat that..... .You cannot control still temperature. You can only control heat input. That being said, A thermostat is useless. my phase angle controller has no temp input, only a dial to ramp up and down the amount of wattage, or heat throwing at the boiler. The more heat you throw, the more vapor produced. This does not increase temp. Only increases the amount of vapor going up the column.
Temp is a constant, decided by the compostion of the wash being heated. As the alcohol is depleted from the wash, it has a higher concentration of water, therefore the boiling point gets closer to the boiling point of water.

[Coaster]

@ MuleKicker,

You are right. I stand corrected.

Regards,
Coaster

[boandjim]

I am still fairly new at this hobby, so maybe someone can chime in on this option. I just rigged mine up today and kinda did a test run with just water in my spare keg. I used a water heater element from lowes hardware store. 3500 watt I believe and 240 volt. I wired it up to the router speed controller found at Harbor Freight. http://www.harborfreight.com/router-spe ... 43060.html (link is WFS(work/family safe)) This lets you plug it into your standard 120 wall outlet and I BELIEVE (correct me if I am wrong) it is simply a rheostat that regulates amperage flow. So you don't have to worry about cycle time. However, you will need to check your wattage of the heating element to make sure it wont exceed 15 amps (what the router controller is rated at)... Embarrassing but useful information. I'm usually working with 12v dc, so I got a reminder of how AC voltage works. WARNING!!!! Just because router speed controller switch is in off position, it does not mean that you can be holding the controller in your hand and touch the contacts of the element when it is wired up! Luckily, the cord of the controller is short, so if this happens to you and your hands are clamped around both pieces, yell out "HELP ME BABY JESUS!" and run until the controller comes unplugged. Then have another drink and leave it unplugged for the night. Anyways, enough about last night! Someone please check to make sure that Harbor Freight controller is a good idea. Thanks and good luck!

[MuleKicker]

I am still fairly new at this hobby, so maybe someone can chime in on this option. I just rigged mine up today and kinda did a test run with just water in my spare keg. I used a water heater element from lowes hardware store. 3500 watt I believe and 240 volt. I wired it up to the router speed controller found at Harbor Freight. http://www.harborfreight.com/router-spe ... 43060.html (link is WFS(work/family safe)) This lets you plug it into your standard 120 wall outlet and I BELIEVE (correct me if I am wrong) it is simply a rheostat that regulates amperage flow. So you don't have to worry about cycle time. However, you will need to check your wattage of the heating element to make sure it wont exceed 15 amps (what the router controller is rated at)... Embarrassing but useful information. I'm usually working with 12v dc, so I got a reminder of how AC voltage works. WARNING!!!! Just because router speed controller switch is in off position, it does not mean that you can be holding the controller in your hand and touch the contacts of the element when it is wired up! Luckily, the cord of the controller is short, so if this happens to you and your hands are clamped around both pieces, yell out "HELP ME BABY JESUS!" and run until the controller comes unplugged. Then have another drink and leave it unplugged for the night. Anyways, enough about last night! Someone please check to make sure that Harbor Freight controller is a good idea. Thanks and good luck!

So much is wrong here... I dont know where to begin. There is an off switch on most router speed controllers. That should shut off power to the element. Also, you shouldnt be touching the contacts anyway.. They should be covered/protected. You should do a little research on what you are doing before you cause yourself great bodily injury. Electrocution is not funny.

[boandjim]

MuleKicker, yes, there is an on/off switch on the router speed controller. The link I provided earlier has picture. However, I believe with AC voltage, the off switch is simply opening the circuit on one side. Thus, if I touched the circuit after the switch, I'm still touching power. Me holding onto the controller in the other hand, which I am guessing the case is grounded, makes a complete circuit through me and bypassing the switch. So yes, the element was off, but I was on. Haven't drawn this circuit out on paper, but it makes sense in my head (reckon I could get the meter out and check continuity to the ground of the plug to verify if it is really that big of a deal). Your right, I shouldn't have been touching the contacts, but had a memory lapse about AC voltage, and just assumed having the switch off made it safe. They are covered and protected now, but all this was a test set up at the time, and I wasn't sure it was ready for final assembly...Sorry for letting everyone else in on my embarrassing mistake in hopes that it my keep someone else from doing the same thing. And sorry for me being able to look back at the mistake and at least get a laugh out of it. However, we haven't really helped ThrownOlive here much by bashing other people. You seem well versed in electronics, much more than me, so maybe you can tear apart my electrical set up, instead of trying to tear me apart.

[Prairiepiss]

The HF speed controller is what I use. Yes the back cover is used as a heatsink. Not a good one I mite add. And should be replaced with a larger one. But this back cover is connected directly to the ground on the plug. The green wire is riveted right to it. And the switch does only switch one side off and on. Unfortunately it is switching the neutral leg of the 110 circuit. It should be the hot leg for safety reasons. But it is not. So yes if you are touching the back cover and you touch a hot contact. It's going to hurt.

[boandjim]

^^^^ What PP said. PP, can you elaborate on your set up, or maybe refer me to another post that covers it? With my test run yesterday, I only had about 5 gallons of water in the keg and it was still taking over an hour to get up to temp. Like I said before, my element is a 240V 3500 watt hot water heater element. Keg is not insulated, but I am planning on doing it. I am guessing though, that the HF controller would be fine with 120v for a half keg, ThrownOlive.

[Prairiepiss]

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