Buffalo Trace small barrel failed experiment

[magnetic_tarantula]

http://www.alcademics.com/2012/08/celeb ... ments.html

Any thoughts on whether this is proganganda/bullshit by BT to stem the tide of small distillers? It kind of makes me not want to buy any of their releases, even if Eagle Rare is my favorite.

[junkyard dawg]

Interesting link...

I'd say its about 50% bs/propaganda

20% truthiness

and 30% stabbing at the micros...

edit...

I have, with my own homemade contraptions and a small barrel, made a drink that I consider far superior to anything BT has put out. I wouldn't call their product swill, but I do know that small barrels are fantastic for what a homedistiller does. It seems a bit of an apples and oranges comparison to me... A five gallon barrel is not a 53 gallon barrel and while the principle is the same, the execution is different.

[rtalbigr]

I kinda agree with JD here. Besides, there's no way I'd leave anything in a 5 gal barrel for 6 years.

Big R

[LWTCS]

I figure as long as the product description is not "smoke and mirrors" and the price is comensurate with how the product is represented...then the final judge is really me.
For instance that Stillhouse product is good and would love to drink it all the time.............But not for no damn $46 per 750ml.

[magnetic_tarantula]

I kinda thought the same thing "of course it tastes like dirty ass, you left it in the fuckin barrel for 6 years". For the laymen who cares not to read up on it it would seem like "oh normally an 6 year bourbon tastes good".

[Jimbo]

Thats a surprising article, and arrogant as hell. That there are so many micros who have learned to create world class whiskeys on a small scale should have been an indication to BT that maybe they did something wrong on their first try, instead of writing a story defiling small barrels and a entire cottage industry. They took a marketing gamble, catering to the masses who think years = quality, and at the same time taking a sucker punch to their brethren in the industry. BT makes 15 brands, so they have a large marketing team. The bigger the company the bigger their marketing team, more disconnected with the reality of the product they are, and careless with the ignorant bullshit fiction they'll publish. 'Celebrate Failure' Really??? How about go fuck yourself.

[Boda Getta]

Do you think BT just poured all that "awful" whiskey down the drain?

BG

[Jimbo]

hahaha, na, they probably just created a 16th brand until its all gone.

[magnetic_tarantula]

It really makes me not want to buy their product.

I think the funny thing about BT is that their 15 brands are mostly from the same mashbill, just stored in a different location in the warehouse. I would have to search out the article again, but I thought I read their $100+ bottle of Stagg is the same as their $20 basic BT bottle it is just kept on the 3rd floor in the hottest area of the warehouse.

http://sourmashmanifesto.com/2011/03/

http://www.professorcocktail.com/2012/0 ... ction.html

http://www.cooperedtot.com/2012/06/geor ... -king.html

The last one if you read through all the way down to the comments it has some interesting info. I barreled some whiskey back in May and forgot about it in my cabinet. I barreled it at 125proof, when I checked it on Halloween it was 148 proof. My climate where I live is hot and dry.

[Jimbo]

Ya, Jack Daniels does the same. Their premium brands and single barrel are selected from the top hottest storage areas. I think it was Jack, forgot, it was in a really interesting history channel show you can watch on Youtube in 6 parts, History of Whiskey http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTHUyu-vXdQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Boda Getta]

" I barreled it at 125proof, when I checked it on Halloween it was 148 proof. My climate where I live is hot and dry."

???

BG

[Jimbo]

I thought that sounded crazy too, so looked it up. Apparently at lower storage temperatures alcohol finds it way thorugh the wood and the alc % drops. But at high temps, because water molecules are a lot smaller than alcohol molecules, water evaporates more than the alcohol and the proof RISES. No shit right? I had no idea either. One distillery says its top of the warehouse barrels, where its hot, can end up 10-15 proof higher than the 125 proof barreling regulations. Crazy.

[magnetic_tarantula]

Get my mashbill correct and I will save $150 on a bottle of George T. Stagg!!

[Dnderhead]

"Apparently at lower storage temperatures alcohol finds it way through the wood and the alc % drops. But at high temps, "
If you say so...beleve what you want..

[magnetic_tarantula]

Well that is what Mike Miyamoto former Master Distiller at Suntory said, not to mention my own experience.

Mine was stored above my fridge over the summer which was hotter than usual. My wife insisted on not letting the AC kick on til 80.

[Jimbo]

"Apparently at lower storage temperatures alcohol finds it way through the wood and the alc % drops. But at high temps, "
If you say so...beleve what you want..

I dont say so, the distillers do. George Stagg Kentucky Bourbon is put in the barrel at no more than 62.5, per bourbon rules. And their latest offering was pulled out of the barrel 18 years later at 71.3 and bottled at cask strength, 71.3. If you have a deep wallet you can go buy a bottle. Jack Daniels says the same about the barrels at the top of their warehouse, where its well over 100 degrees in the summer.

[Prairiepiss]

Heat or lack of is not the only thing that needs to be looked at. Humidity levels also play a role in what evaporates and what doesn't. Alcohol is a thinner liquid then water. So I don't see the wood blocking it but not the water. There is something else happening.

Much like air pressure. A high air pressure will always move to a low air pressure. Same hold true for water. Higher water concentrations will migrate to lower concentrations. So if you have a low humidity area water will evaporate faster in that area then a high humidity area. And I would venturing to say the humidity at the top of a barrel barn is less then the center. The center being surrounded by a mass of barrels filled with liquid containing water. The air would he more saturated with water or more humid. So less water will evaporate or it will be slower. Where the barrels at the top or outsides will have more airflow and less humidity. So they will loose more water or loose it faster.

Now for us home distillers using just a proof Tralles hydrometer. You also need to take in account the added stuff from the wood will skew a hydrometer reading. So I don't doubt the ABV went up. That's reasonable. But how much did it really go up? When anything added to the test sample other then alcohol and water can give false readings. How much? Who knows? With out the proper test equipment you may never know. But for what we do it will be a close as you can get.

[Jimbo]

Yes, I imagine its bone dry as well as damn hot at the top of a warehouse. Just like in your attic in the summer if you ever had the pleasure of rummaging for something up there in hades on a hot day.

But this is not correct...

Alcohol is a thinner liquid then water. So I don't see the wood blocking it but not the water. There is something else happening.

An H2O molecule is much much smaller than a C2H5OH ethanol molecule.

Im sure we're all correct tho, its combination heat and humidity related. Curious. Makes me want to put my barrel in the attic for a couple weeks next summer

[Prairiepiss]

I was thinking more in terms of viscosity. I know from experience a higher ABV liquid will flow faster through a coffee filter then a lower ABV liquid. So I'm assuming the water is what slows it down. Could be wrong. Have been before.

[Jimbo]

Ya thats a good point. I dont know the official term, has to do with surface tension and wetting properties. its why bugs can walk on water, and small droplets suck together to make bigger droplets. Hmmmm. I been sitting here pondering and decided Im gonna make a hot box out of a big cardboard box and lightbulb. And expedite my brandy aging by sticking the barrel in there for a while. From what Ive read, whiskey doesnt age much in the winter months, and does all its aging and extraction of oaks flavors int eh heat of summer. Its winter now and Ive got 5 gallons of raw brandy i wanna drink soon! LOL. Ill let you know how it goes,

[Prairiepiss]

You will find there is no replicating time. Conditions are easy to replicate. Time can't be sped up.

[Jimbo]

The wrong condition doesnt help anything. Ill put my lightbulb on a timer, to get the expansion contraction, day/night, effect of a summer in a warehouse, and let er bake all winter. I got nothin but time anyway. Better than it sitting here cold doing not much all winter locked at one furnace temperature. Altho it is taking on a subtle caramel color already after 2 weeks.

[Dnderhead]

chemical reactions happen faster at high temperature,,so aging happens faster at high temperature..
as for loss..in high humidity the air is saturated with water,so it does not absorb more water or at least at a slower rate.
but the water will absorb alcohol..so the alcohol goes into the humidity or water thats in the air.. this is not that you will loose
more alcohol it just throws off balance witch one is evaporated the most.
now the opposite appears with low humidity,,the air does not contain water or a small amount..so the water is evaporated more.
if this took place until the air asorbs right amount of water then they whould equalize at some point .

[Prairiepiss]

Question is. Is it truly a wrong condition? Most places that barrel age have four seasons. They don't just age in the summer. And I'm sure the barns places like JD has. It can get cold there too. So in reality that is part of the aging process. So should it be left out? What will be missing if it is? What will take the place of what's missing? Is it desirable? Or just good enough to not worry about it?

[Dnderhead]

heat ages faster,,in the tropics "rum"ages much faster than in cold climates .in the north (US) aging comes to a halt in winter.so it has to be "kept "much longer for the same outcome.
so putting you spirits in/out of refrigerator or cold/hot is just prolonging what your trying to do.

[Jimbo]

so putting you spirits in/out of refrigerator or cold/hot is just prolonging what your trying to do.

Thermal expansion and contraction is not small. In a bunged barrel, this pushes the spirit in and out of the wood. Daily.

[Dnderhead]

you'd better fiend better information..it takes very little pressur in a wood barrel and it will start sprouting leaks all over.
iv had many years of experience with them..so dont give me that horse s#@$..and even if it did that whould NOT be aging.
that if anything whould be flavoring,wood flavoring..aging is a chemical proses,between the different alcohols and different acids.
these make "esters" or the flavors that the connoisseurs look for.also alcohols become "oily".this can take up to 10 years.after
witch little happens.

[magnetic_tarantula]

I just wanted to get it out there as I hadn't seen it mentioned on here. I think these douchebags are probably on the side of "dont make it easier for small producers". I hate seeing that anti-competitive bullshit. No small producer will ever make a huge dent in these massive multi-national producer. They scramble for ever last fucking cent.

Even if we love what they produce they don't find our enthusiasm endearing. I have probably tried all 15 of BT's brands/releases, but I doubt I will ever buy from them again. I hate the doublespeak, and I'm not so stupid that I will fall for their propanganda.

[Jimbo]

I share your sentiment Marley, see my post below that ends in 'How about go fuck yourself' Its the same bullshit in the craft beer world. The huge multinationals scramble for every damn penny, make half assed 'pseudo' craft beer (arguably on purpose) to take store shelf space (politics) and keep the general brainwashed public unimpressed with craft beer (manipulation) and drinking their fizzy yellow water (max profit).

It drives my nuts when I think about it too much. Screw em. At the end of the day we have a choice.

[magnetic_tarantula]

Yeah we just got "Brewmasters 12" by Budweiser, and are not allowed to order local brews. Im in fuckin SD microbrew-country here!