flaked corn vs cracked corn

[OnTheWaterfront]

All of the grain bill calculators seem to only have flaked corn in their databases, is flaked corn a one for one substitution?

[Dnderhead]

flaked corn has been cooked, cracked has not..the cooking you have to do.witch some fiend hard.

[MitchyBourbon]

I assume you are asking about potential sugar when mashing, not a sugar head. I'm sure there is a difference but it is likely very small. I have used both and I have always assumed they were about the same with regards to potential sugar.

[OnTheWaterfront]

in terms of potential sugar is what I meant.

[goinbroke2]

Difference I see is 55lb's of cracked corn is $12.00, flaked corn is $.30 per 100g or about $32-34 for 55lb's.
Yes flaked can be added to 145deg water to mash, but if your heating water regardless, you might as well add cracked corn at a higher temp and let it cook for a while. You've got about $20 to play with (cost of propane etc) It's just on whether you want to do the hassle of all grain mashing or just adding flakes.

I've got both but after doing all grain, I don't think I'll be buying anymore flaked...course I'm cheap as hell, but I digress..

[rtalbigr]

in terms of potential sugar is what I meant.

You won't see much difference in yield between flaked and cracked. Both generally are just field corn which by itself will yield around 4%. Flaked is a lot easier to use and cracked is a lot cheaper.

Big R

[zacwest52285]

I have used both thus far. That brings up something though.....

Cracked corn is obviously cheaper. Or is it? Flaked corn does not need to be cooked, whereas cracked corn should be cooked for an extended period of time. With the prices of propane/electricity, how much will it cost to cook your corn? I am still pretty green in the AG but I prefer to fork over the $$$ for the flaked. Its just one less thing I have to worry about while mashing. I have had fairly high mash efficiency using flaked corn and flaked rye with my Rahr 6 row.

It all comes down to preference but wish someone would do the math(im too sleepy) to see after cooking, the price of cracked corn.....

[Prairiepiss]

The difference between $10 and $40 a 50# bag. I don't see it costing $30 to cook some corn. Well not here. Maybe somewhere the prices of energy is higher. I can get a 20# propane bottle filled for $20 max. So even if I used a whole bottle to cook 50# I would still be ahead $10. But I would use electricity myself. And I can run a still for 12 hours for less the $4. So I can cook corn using steam for way less then propane. Even if we say $5 to cook off some corn. That's a savings of around $25. That's another two bags of corn and another cook.

[zacwest52285]

just playing a little devil's advocate. Definitely cheaper, I am sure I will be buying more cracked as I keep going in the AG journey. Still have some flaked to use up though. Its just so easy.....

[The HP]

With my current brewery set up I have 5500w elements in an Hot Liquer Tank and in a Boil Kettle - could I "boil in a bag" with cracked corn, and transfer grain and beer to fermentor and avoid having my boil kettle full of cracked corn particulate? ( Can't see why not - but maybe someone has done it and found a reason why it is a bad idea ... )

[frunobulax]

Where are you guys getting your flaked corn? I got a 55 LB. bag through a group grain buy last year for .85 a LB
The main distributor won't allow it anymore, so I've been looking online and at my Local Homebrew shop. The LHBS wants $2.75 Per Lb !!
and online with shipping doesn't seem much better. I'm an all grain brewer and I've been reading up on mashing corn and it sounds like a huge PITA.
Thanks.

[Potsticker]

Oy! I just dumped out a bourbon recipe. I had 0% EtOH when I read after 2 weeks of fermenting
I used pound for pound flaked corn instead of the cracked corn (I also am now just learning about not having to cook it), and it just turned into a thick porridge. I pitched the yeast around 80ºF and got a few bubbles, but then nothing after that. Live and learn - so I'm learning with Wineo's Plain Ol Sugar Wash. One thing on that, though, is I had to up the recipe to 10 pounds of sugar to get 1080 - the 8 pounds was only 1055 (someone's got 2 batches going at once ). I'm at about 6300 ft elevation - could be why I have to use more sugar to get my beerometer to read 1080?

Anywhose, I'm thoroughly impressed with everyone's knowledge and openness. I hope to be able to contribute down the road

[Jimbo]

I assume you are asking about potential sugar when mashing, not a sugar head. I'm sure there is a difference but it is likely very small. I have used both and I have always assumed they were about the same with regards to potential sugar.

Mitchy, when you used a flaked corn, how did you find it compared to cracked in a bourbon, process, flavor etc? Thanks.

Potsticker, that thick porridge didnt loosen up when you mashed in the malted barley? Was your final grain to water ratio in the neighborhood of 2lbs per gallon all said?

[Potsticker]

Potsticker, that thick porridge didnt loosen up when you mashed in the malted barley? Was your final grain to water ratio in the neighborhood of 2lbs per gallon all said?

I doubt it, just watched a video of some guy making a wash and his cornmeal turned to a thin slurry - mine was about the thickness of oatmeal mixed with quicrete. I'm going to get the sugar washes down, and then maybe move to whiskeys - although, I'm more of a vodka drinker, so I think it's time to put some copper scrubbers in my column

[MitchyBourbon]

Jimbo wrote,

Mitchy, when you used a flaked corn, how did you find it compared to cracked in a bourbon, process, flavor etc? Thanks

The flavor was good, maybe a bit milder than I'm accustomed to. I wouldn't say its worse than cracked corn. What I will say is likely to get me in trouble around here. I don't use flaked corn anymore cuz its a shit ton of work. It's way way way more work than cracked corn. I don't ferment on the grain. After mashing i drain off what liquid I can. I have a blichman mash tun with a false bottom and a march pump works fantastic with cracked corn. Not at all with flaked. I squeeze what's left. With flaked corn it takes so much effort that after having gone through 50 lbs, my wife noticed that my biceps were noticeably larger. If cracked corn were twice the price of flaked I'd still use cracked. Obviously, things would be different if I fermented on the grain. If that were the case I might very well use flaked, as I said the taste is as good.

And that's all I gots to say bout flaked corn.

[Usge]

Briess flaked maize that they sell at brewshops for use in beer is food grade corn that has been processed (pre-cooked and dried). Ten dollar cracked corn is feed corn. There are also feed varieties of flaked corn — some which may be processed differently. I've mashed both and at least in my experience...there's a difference in taste between the two. (food grade corn varieties and feed grade). Food grade corn/maize has always been more expensive than feed grade corn..regardless of the variety you choose. Bulk food grains are around a 1$ a lb from such suppliers. (ie., 45-50 bucks for a 50lb bag). You can also buy your own food/maize and crack it yourself (that also could be a lot of work depending on what kind of grain mill you have).

I actually started using flaked maize cause I felt it was "less" work than using feed corn! I only have to bring the flaked corn just to a boil and let it cool/steep on it's own down to mash temps...to get it to work for me. The squeezing part..."is"...a PITA and work. But, using a bag makes it simple. The beauty of that is...after you are done...you just lift the bag out and you have a fairly clean pot. What muscles you use squeezing the bag...gets compensated somewhat by not having to scrub the dickens out of the big ole pot after you are done. I don't ferment on the grain either. I don't find it easier to squeeze the bag after the ferment...as that's just pure muscle process. I use the metal false bottom of my mashtun to push the bag against.

But, you are certainly right that cracked corn "will" drain right out...IF...you don't muck it up. Seen many try and end up with a pot full of snot trying to mash cracked corn and have to squeeze it, strain it, etc., off anyway (feed corn or not). So, it's not just the type of corn either in some cases. But, how you process it.

[Jimbo]

Do you sparge (so do a thicker mash), or just drain and let er rip? I can see how cracked corn would form a filter bed a lot better than gooey flaked stuff.

Funny how we all do this different. Squeezing doesnt bother me, I mean it's not fun, but in 20 minutes its over. The one time I did a bigger batch, 50 lbs of corn I was pretty exhausted when I finished lol. Stick to smaller half barrel cooker size batches now for that reason and a few others.

[Usge]

Not sure if you are asking me or not Jimbo, and sorry to be late getting back to this....I'm not around much anymore. But, no, I don't sparge flaked corn. The water would just run off the sides of it anyway. It's not really "gooey", so much as it "holds" water that readily comes out even with gentle pressing. The first 1/2 anyway...will come out easily. It's the last half that takes a bit more work to get out. And yes...I would imagine this might get impractical at higher volume ranges.

[Potsticker]

Oy! I just dumped out a bourbon recipe. I had 0% EtOH when I read after 2 weeks of fermenting
I used pound for pound flaked corn instead of the cracked corn (I also am now just learning about not having to cook it), and it just turned into a thick porridge. I pitched the yeast around 80ºF and got a few bubbles, but then nothing after that. Live and learn - so I'm learning with Wineo's Plain Ol Sugar Wash. One thing on that, though, is I had to up the recipe to 10 pounds of sugar to get 1080 - the 8 pounds was only 1055 (someone's got 2 batches going at once ). I'm at about 6300 ft elevation - could be why I have to use more sugar to get my beerometer to read 1080?

Anywhose, I'm thoroughly impressed with everyone's knowledge and openness. I hope to be able to contribute down the road

Update - going to go back to Wineo's original recipe for the Simple Sugar Wash. The first mash was great even though my hydrometer only had SG1055, and the second wash is not working ($7.29 wasted ). I think the problem is my hydrometer and not the recipe. Good thing sugar is cheap!

[Prairiepiss]

Oy! I just dumped out a bourbon recipe. I had 0% EtOH when I read after 2 weeks of fermenting
I used pound for pound flaked corn instead of the cracked corn (I also am now just learning about not having to cook it), and it just turned into a thick porridge. I pitched the yeast around 80ºF and got a few bubbles, but then nothing after that. Live and learn - so I'm learning with Wineo's Plain Ol Sugar Wash. One thing on that, though, is I had to up the recipe to 10 pounds of sugar to get 1080 - the 8 pounds was only 1055 (someone's got 2 batches going at once ). I'm at about 6300 ft elevation - could be why I have to use more sugar to get my beerometer to read 1080?

Anywhose, I'm thoroughly impressed with everyone's knowledge and openness. I hope to be able to contribute down the road

Update - going to go back to Wineo's original recipe for the Simple Sugar Wash. The first mash was great even though my hydrometer only had SG1055, and the second wash is not working ($7.29 wasted ). I think the problem is my hydrometer and not the recipe. Good thing sugar is cheap!

I'm sory. Something doesn't seam right with what you are saying. And a lot is being left out. It's almost like you are using your hydrometer incorrectly. Not that its bad. A hydrometer can be tested. First with plain water it should read 1.000. And then with a sugar water mixture of say. 1 lb sugar to 1 gallon water. Will read 1.046. And that is adding 1 lb of sugar to 1 gallon of water. And at the temp the hydrometer is calibrated for.

[Panagringo]

You should check to see what temperature your sample is before using a hydrometer. Hydrometers are dialed in at 60F. If your sample is higher or lower than that, it can throw your readings way off.

[Potsticker]

I'm sory. Something doesn't seam right with what you are saying. And a lot is being left out. It's almost like you are using your hydrometer incorrectly. Not that its bad. A hydrometer can be tested. First with plain water it should read 1.000. And then with a sugar water mixture of say. 1 lb sugar to 1 gallon water. Will read 1.046. And that is adding 1 lb of sugar to 1 gallon of water. And at the temp the hydrometer is calibrated for.

I think it's the user and not the equipment. I'm running the first batch and I packed my column with 2 copper scrubbers, and the first run started at 120 proof - woohoo! I've got another hour or so to get it down to 40 proof, then I'll run the batch that I think I fixed - took out some wash and added water, then set it in the basement with an airlock for a couple of weeks. Has a nice layer of yeast on the bottom. Thanks Prairiepiss for the tips on using a hydrometer correctly . I might actually get the hang of this!