Re: Ruby the CM queen safety related issues

[Ruby]

SC you are absolutely right. Those lines running up are all for cooling supply and return. The two valves are independent control of the reflux condenser and the product condenser. You are also right that I could have done it easier and cheaper. For those who want to do the same thing, PVC is a great way to go. I am not a fan of the rubber hoses and clamps running all over. I don't care for the way it looks and it also makes me a bit nervous that one could pop off. All of my fittings are garden hose style, and give me the warm fuzzy that I won't lose cooling water flow in the middle of a run. One note, and maybe I am wrong, I ran two different discharge lines. The reason I didn't plumb them into the same pipe is because I was concerned about pressure differentials in the common return line affecting the flow through one of the condensers. I had the copper and opted to not have to worry about it by running independent discharges. So really what you are seeing at the bottom is one main supply connection, two discharges, and the take off from the product condenser.

[S-Cackalacky]

OK, got it. I probably should have been able to figure that out - thought I was seeing more than two valves.

Rad mentioned about the weight. How are you dealing with that? Do you support the column in some way?

[Ruby]

I used aircraft cable and tensioners. They are spring released and very easy to deal with. We will see how they hold up over time. I got them at work, have no idea how much they are. Knee deep in sac run now. Centering ring is pouring it right down the middle and with the sight glass, judging reflux is a breeze. I think it will prove to be a leg up on running a cm. It is very easy to see how your adjustments affect the run. I know a lot of people look at the sight glass as a toy, but for the cm it is very easy to see the results of your actions long before the parrot tells you that you made a mistake.

Guide wires

[googe]

Sight glasses are great, especially when learning to run a new rig, just takes the guessing out of it!. If it runs consistent and you do much the same washes you'll be able to run it with your eyes closed, the joy of a cm!.

[Sungy]

Sight glasses really help in running a CM still for the beginner. My rig has six plates and seven sight glasses because I want to be able to view reflux from the bottom plate to the boiler. This alows me to see the reflux that actually hits the bottom plate. You can see the variations of bubble action on the plates through the sight glasses but only the bottom under plate sight glass lets you visually see the reflux ratio. I have a parrot attached to the downcommer on my bottom plate.

[Ruby]

Right down the middle.

Sight glass

[acfixer69]

I used aircraft cable and tensioners. They are spring released and very easy to deal with. We will see how they hold up over time. I got them at work, have no idea how much they are. Knee deep in sac run now. Centering ring is pouring it right down the middle and with the sight glass, judging reflux is a breeze. I think it will prove to be a leg up on running a cm. It is very easy to see how your adjustments affect the run. I know a lot of people look at the sight glass as a toy, but for the cm it is very easy to see the results of your actions long before the parrot tells you that you made a mistake.

image.jpg

That rig is a top heavy as my first ex-wife. How about a pic of the come-a-long holding it up. It just doesn't make sense to me.

AC

[Ruby]

It actually stands by itself on an empty keg no problem. The cables fine tune it for level so the reflux will run down the middle.

Ac....still having a hard time with this whole thing?

[Ruby]

Here ya go anyway. Like magic.

Magic

[emptyglass]

I was dissapointed to see this thread go the way it did, my popcorn went cold.

Ruby, I'm interested to see what happens. I'd like to see what you get out of it, and also see you quote some good quantitive figures, such as the wash strength and so on.
You seem to know enough to be able to share with us that much. Happy to wait for your ferments to finish and so on, I'm going nowhere.

I'm a bit taken back by the need for the cables and so on, please dont do anything dangerous.

[Tokoroa_Shiner]

Great looking rig. And great results.
Shine on ruby.

[Ruby]

Cleaning wash was 40% abv. product was 65 degrees f, as stated before the cables are not for weight. They fine tune level so that reflux hits the center of the packing. The rig sits comfortably on an empty keg without concern for packing. My rig is probably lighter than those with 3 inch dephlegs and flutes. Mine is deceiving because the copper is outside the column, but in reality there is less weight up there than a lot of others.

[bearriver]

My column is over 25#'s easy when packed. Solid as Sears. I bungee the top to a ceiling rafter to keep it level.

[Maritimer]

I am not a fan of the rubber hoses and clamps running all over. I don't care for the way it looks and it also makes me a bit nervous that one could pop off. All of my fittings are garden hose style, and give me the warm fuzzy that I won't lose cooling water flow in the middle of a run.

You've identified the number one safety problem with distilling. I get that warm fuzzy feeling because I built a flow switch that detects lack of flow and shuts down the power if the flow stops. Even though your fittings are secure, there could still be an interruption in coolant flow. Here's my flow switch, and with your inventiveness, maybe you can improve on it! http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... low+switch

M

[Ruby]

That was a great idea. Are you using a pump or city water? I have thought about something like that before but since I'm on propane, I don't want to deal with solenoids and controllers and things. Also since I'm on city water I am fairly confident I won't lose water, not that it's impossible.

[thecroweater]

You've identified the number one safety problem with distilling. I get that warm fuzzy feeling because I built a flow switch that detects lack of flow and shuts down the power if the flow stops.M

You've identified the number one safety problem with distilling I think. No system is fail safe, any part of any shut off or monitoring system can fail at any time. Warm fuzzy feelings are a result of a false sense of security and as such are likely to result in laxed vigilance. put all the safety features you like on a still but there is no set and forget still that doesn't require your constant and vigilant monitoring
(sorry if I'm a bit off topic)

[Maritimer]

I agree, croweater. But every step one takes to help with safety is of benefit. Wearing a seat belt is safer than not wearing one. It would be foolish not to use a seat belt and insist that you drive extra-carefully instead. In fact, I would suggest that a flow switch is such a basic safety measure that it should be part of any still.

M

[thecroweater]

I am as is the OP using flame so maybe seat belts aren't as useful on bikes might be an accurate analogy

[Maritimer]

Croweater, not quite sure what you mean. But if you are using flame then a flow switch is very important. If the coolant stops, ethanol vapour will pour out of the top of your still. Being heavier than air, if will fall down the column right into the flame, where it will ignite and run the flame up to the top of the still where more vapour is coming out. So the still becomes a flaming torch. The amount of vapour produced is prodigious. I once lit the output of a pot still with 2000 watts boiling a BW wash. The flame was about two feet long and really really scary. (I had a fire extinguisher handy and had prepared the area for the experiment.) Once you have used a flow switch, running a still without one makes you hyper-aware of the danger involved.

M

[emptyglass]

I think your being silly setting your still on fire martimer, regardless of how prepared you thought you were for the "experiment".

It could have gone badly wrong.

For what its worth, the fire department has a responsibility to report to the police why and how a fire in a domestic situation was caused, at least here. I'd only be assuming your local brigade has the same responsibility, so I wont assume.

Tell the law you had a flow meter and it shouldn't have ever happened. Talking seat belts and crap is just shit, I agree with what crow was saying, theres no excuse to leave your still.


Ruby, cant you trim the fitting you attached to your column so it sits square and plumb to start with? That how most guys do it. Just sayin.

[Ruby]

It's not that it is way out of wack. I just wanted it perfect. Getting the flanges perfect is not an easy task. My cuts were as square as you can make them, just not dead nuts accurate. Also the keg flange is not perfect either. There are a lot of factors in play here. The cables were an easy fix and also added security as far as rig stability goes. If I was at all uncertain, the fire would never get lit. Like I said, I put it on an empty keg, and it stands just fine. A full boiler makes it about as stable as you can get it.

[emptyglass]

It's not that it is way out of wack. I just wanted it perfect.

My cuts were as square as you can make them, just not dead nuts accurate.

Thats cool, I was just asking.

[Ruby]

I do wonder just how critical getting the reflux down the center is, I would think that even if it was running down the walls it would still wick into the copper mesh and mix with vapor at some point.

As for lighting your still on fire, that's way outside my comfort zone. Seems a little reckless to me. No idea exactly what's gonna happen there. Have to admit though, I would like to see a video of that. Strictly for research purposes

[Maritimer]

Ruby,

Setting up the still so that it is plumb is pretty important. Instead of thinking of the liquid wicking into the packing, think about it wicking from the packing onto the wall. Gravity will pull it to one side.

It's also important to thoroughly insulate the column.

Now as to setting my still on fire again, guys, maybe you can just live with the image I've left you.

Here is a post about a still that caught fire accidentally, while being "watched".
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 33&t=42646 . A flow switch is watching all the time and won't get distracted. It reacts immediately.

M

[Ruby]

I can't argue the merits of insulating the column, I just have a really hard time covering up the copper. It's just me. Love that copper, wanna see it.

[T-Pee]

tp (wisely for a change)

[T-Pee]

Neither one's worth the effort to me but I live in a fairly temperate area too. You poor buggers living in Chicago or Icland gawd ferbid or something would probably consider it.

tp (in shorts and t-shirt)

[Ruby]

For me the time to insulate is in the winter when you're in pot still mode. Before the cm conversion, with a 6 foot pot still, I could get enough passive reflux to run at 160 or so with a pretty decent take off rate.

[Maritimer]

I'm a retired research lab technician. For 35 years I built apparatuses for professors and students to do their experiments. I can't imagine building something that intentionally disregards the requirements of the experiment. If reflux running down the column becomes wasted, why not make it plumb? If losing heat to the environment makes for a less than optimum gradient, why not insulate? Ruby, you wouldn't take much pleasure in seeing my still; I use two-inch-thick Styrofoam to both insulate it and hold it plumb. (And prevent it from ever being knocked over, an unintended consequence.)

M

[Ruby]

I respect that. Well said. You are absolutely right, function over form. I'm still gonna be a hard sell on insulating, even with all of the facts offered here on the sight.