ANYONE here reccomend hi grav washes?

[jb-texshine]

For informational purposes only !!!!
would anyone reccomend hi grav washes.lets consider hi grav 12% or greater potential alc@1.000fg.
If so for what rescipe.
What type of still.
Strip first or not.
Ran how.
*************************
Disclaimer*****
Not considering this personally.brought about by another member saying that some here recommend a high gravity in sugar washes. The only thing of mine that hits 10% is rum...not over though.

[Sungy]

Im not a fan of hi gravity washes. I keep them below 10%. The bakers yeast I use gets stressed out above 10% and gives off a poor flavor

[WIski]

7-8% seems to be my sweet spot......

[der wo]

High gravity has problems:
-The yeast has a limit. If you exceed the limit, you will have residual sugar and the yeast produces bad tasting things.
-If there is not much aroma in the wash, the good aroma gets diluted and bad aromas get through by distilling.

High gravity has advantages:
-More yield of course. This is nice for fruits with almost no sugar, which are expensive, take long time to pick or the mashing is extreme time consuming (yesterday I picked out the stones of a sloe-mash...)
-If there is much aroma, low abv will not extract all of it by far. So, if you add sugar here, you get not only more spirit, but also more aroma. No dilution of the aroma, because high % has more extraction power. That counts, if there is enough aroma.
-The added sugar will be liquid ethanol. So you can use less water for a thick fruit mash and you will have less scorching issues.
-Washs 16% or more will not get mould. You can store it, open and pick out stones or squish it without the risk of an infection.

So I would never recommend high gravity for neutral sugar washes.
I would not recommend adding sugar to whiskey washes.
But I can recommend it for fruit. Perhaps not for little aroma fruits like apples, but sure for aroma bombs like sloe, medlar, elderberry... And for those, I can also recommend turbo yeast (OMG, he's using the t-word!), IF:
-you can calculate the extra sugar correctly. For that measure the sugar content of the mash, calculate the volume of the mash minus the unfermentable parts and stay under the limit of the yeast (normally 320g/l).
-you don't add all the sugar at once.
-you have a cold place, that you can slow down the fermentation speed in the first days of fermentation.
-you wait about 6 months after fermentation before distilling. Pre-aging, very effective due to the sour environment.
-you don't use the alcotec 24h or 48h. Too many bad reviews. I use Prestige fruit schnapps yeast. Many of my german speaking friends like the Prestige 8kg.
This way the fermentation time is one month or more, you get a FG of 0.990 or a bit better and max. 18%. I distill fruit one time and on the pulp with my LM.

I know your opinions about turbos, there's no need for a shitstorm. I'm self-assured, have done over 100 mashes and runs, but of course, we all should have our eyes open, there is always something to learn. And without this website I had never succeed with AG and building my reflux stills.
Please consider, I often don't understand your irony and ambigous speech in english and I'm not clever argumenting and refusing in english. So I'm a weak opponent only good for cowards and will not spent my time try to fight back.

[Jimbo]

The answer involves a discussion about yeast health. If you have poor conditions for the yeast (yeast selection, nutrients, temperature, pH) it wont matter if you do a low 8% wash, you'll still have problems.

Honestly, its the biggest reason I favor all grain and all natural ferments. I have a lot more faith in mother nature to get the soup right that my own abilities. I never ever have problems with fresh pressed fruit, or all grain mashes made with at least some malt (mother natures way of making sugar for the yeast).

For AG's I was at 8% sweet spot for years, last couple batches I pushed closer to 10 as a test and had no problem. I added gypsum to the mash (yeast like calcium), used a good ale yeast fermented low and slow, and the wash was clean. A run through 2 plates and the hearts are wide and nice.

Another negative about going high gravity, aside from yeast puking in your drink, is efficiency and time. With high OG's, the FG will tend to me much higher, and the ferment will take much longer. A low gravity healthy wash will ferment out quick and completely

[still_stirrin]

Well put Jimbo. Excellent perspective.

On another thread I was quoted as running a 12-14% sugar wash successfully, which I have. But the ferment was managed such that the yeast was healthy throughout...not stressed.

Beyond that, I typically don't push the OG above 10% potential, rather I just start more fermenters, strip, and then do the spirit run. More volume at lower potential through multiple passes nets a cleaner product.

I'm in no rush (anymore) because I have a (small) stockpile of inventory now.
ss

[bearriver]

Excellent advice Jimbo.

I often make neutral with a %14 ABV wash, but I doubt anything else from a %14 ABV ferment would be very drinkable... Everything else around here is much more conservative.

Edit: I don't recommend anyone push their ferments past %10 ABV. Better yet, pull a T&T recipe and just follow it.

[BourbonStreet]

I usually keep my washes below 10% but have had UJSSM go up to 12% with no problems. I learned a long time ago, if you want better yield, then just throw some feints in there.

[jb-texshine]

S-s it was that other post that made me create this one. Personally I aim for 8%& get closer to 9% by waiting on it to finish as close to.990 as possible. I keep three twenty gallon trash cans going 1 corn and oatmeal uj, then two different types of chicken scratch,one corn milo barley,the other corn and wheat. The two scratch are for ageing and the corn and oats for white dog.plus a five gallon for rum for the wife. The rum I aim for ten or eleven as my wife mixes it with soda anyway and would never notice the sugar bite...

[still_stirrin]

S-s it was that other post that made me create this one....

I figured so....hence my "tie in". That's the reason I had to explain a little better here...I didn't want the quote to be out of context and that other thread was really about a UJ recipe, not a neutral wash (BigBob straightened that out in the thread too).

...Personally I aim for 8%& get closer to 9% by waiting on it to finish as close to.990 as possible. I keep three twenty gallon trash cans going 1 corn and oatmeal uj, then two different types of chicken scratch,one corn milo barley,the other corn and wheat. The two scratch are for ageing and the corn and oats for white dog.plus a five gallon for rum for the wife. The rum I aim for ten or eleven as my wife mixes it with soda anyway and would never notice the sugar bite...

My goodness, you certainly are busy aren't you JB? And it sounds like you've got a bunch of friends who trust you to help keep them social as well. Funny how that happens, huh?
ss

[jb-texshine]

I drink maybe a gallon a month. The wife about a half gallon.and my brother n law helps out for a share. The rest goes in 1/4 barrel kegs. The goal is to have one of each full,ageing on oak sticks 3/4x3/4x5. Every time I run I put my keep in the correct keg with wood at 4per gallon. Just working toward a goal.

[Truckinbutch]

I made a few pretty hot , 14-16% SF, when I started . Advice here trended me away from that and now I get a much better drop .

[shadylane]

For informational purposes only !!!!
would anyone reccomend hi grav washes.lets consider hi grav 12% or greater potential alc@1.000fg.
If so for what rescipe.
What type of still.
Strip first or not.
Ran how.

I wouldn't recommend a high gravity wash, but if I was doing one. I'd do a sugar wash with wheat germ, a yeast bomb and oyster shells.
If your going to torture and execute the yeast, give it a proper last meal.
I'd reflux it for a neutral. And probably strip it first, just incase there's left over sugar that wants to foam up and puke.

[Jimbo]

I made a few pretty hot , 14-16% SF, when I started . Advice here trended me away from that and now I get a much better drop .

ya I been hearing about that drop of yours. Making me thirsty. Fucked? I think not, me thinks you got this wired!

[Truckinbutch]

I made a few pretty hot , 14-16% SF, when I started . Advice here trended me away from that and now I get a much better drop .

ya I been hearing about that drop of yours. Making me thirsty. Fucked? I think not, me thinks you got this wired!

No , not in the least bit ! I lucked out with one batch that made me notorious . Problem is that I got to compete against myself to match or beat that . I gained way too much credibility for one lucky run .

[Jimbo]

I made a few pretty hot , 14-16% SF, when I started . Advice here trended me away from that and now I get a much better drop .

ya I been hearing about that drop of yours. Making me thirsty. Fucked? I think not, me thinks you got this wired!

No , not in the least bit ! I lucked out with one batch that made me notorious . Problem is that I got to compete against myself to match or beat that . I gained way too much credibility for one lucky run .

Well, you know you can do it. And you know what you did. So just do it again.

[rager]

I made a few pretty hot , 14-16% SF, when I started . Advice here trended me away from that and now I get a much better drop .

ya I been hearing about that drop of yours. Making me thirsty. Fucked? I think not, me thinks you got this wired!

No , not in the least bit ! I lucked out with one batch that made me notorious . Problem is that I got to compete against myself to match or beat that . I gained way too much credibility for one lucky run .

Well, you know you can do it. And you know what you did. So just do it again.

.

im hitting close to 10% with my all grain mashes now using enzymes. same amount of grain , just much better conversion. before i was hitting 7-8. my first two mashes had very simular results. 2.3# per gallon of water. at this point i see no reason to push it.

[Truckinbutch]

All grain is my winter goal .

[thecroweater]

rum washes can benefit from the flavours of stressed yeast, that said lower gravities tend to ferment right out much faster than high gavity washes. This means generally with a wash like rum you want it to run hot and fast and ferment out dry. high Gravity might produce a nice flavour but will take ages to ferment out and may stall before all the sugar is exhausted and sugar in rum is the devil for puking

[der wo]

While writing my opinion about that, I felt like going on stage in the wrestling arena...
But now I see I didn't get any reaction. Fascinating. You surprise me every day.
Well, mashing some malt whisky just now, low gravity. Peace and wish you a nice day.

[thecroweater]

While writing my opinion about that, I felt like going on stage in the wrestling arena...
But now I see I didn't get any reaction. Fascinating. You surprise me every day.
Well, mashing some malt whisky just now, low gravity. Peace and wish you a nice day.

You are talking about turbo yes? Yeah what ever floats your boat, I wouldn't recommend it but for something like a slivowitz or stone fruit schnapps its probably better than bread yeast. I use a white wine yeast and found it can take a moderately high gravity

[jb-texshine]

Just had a Gen 1 corn and oat ujssm finish below1.000 in less than60 hours from o.g. 1.072 with bakers yeast.plenty fast for me.plenty high gravity too.
Different strokes for different folks.

[rager]

Just had a Gen 1 corn and oat ujssm finish below1.000 in less than60 hours from o.g. 1.072 with bakers yeast.plenty fast for me.plenty high gravity too.
Different strokes for different folks.

fantastic!

All grain is my winter goal .

you can do it. its really not that hard. doing a simple single malt, wheat,barley,rye whatever is the easiest way to go. if your going to mess with corn i highly recommend the liquid enzymes. they just work so well! if i knew better i would have bought them a long time ago.


back on topic. now that im hitting 10% with my all grain i see no reason to go any higher . most say 8% max . personally from what ive seen , im not getting anything negative from my increase from 8 to 10%

[cranky]

I've never seen anyone with experience recommend a high gravity wash. Now from personal experience I can tell you a plum wash with O/G. of 1.140 and 1118 yeast can ferment dry in under 10 days. However I wouldn't recommend it and personally feel you get a better product with a slow low gravity ferment.

[FreeMountainHermit]

Cranky, have you done any side by side comparisons ?

[cranky]

Cranky, have you done any side by side comparisons ?

It's hard to do a true side by side comparison with my current set up. To begin with temps in my garage are pretty cold year round and I have a 12 gallon trash can type fermenter I start in then move to carboys after things settle down a bit but I don't have anything big enough to make a batch that can be split to do a true side by side. I can tell you that from my personal experience something magical happens to ferments somewhere around the 2 to 3 month point that you can't get from a fast ferment no matter what you do.