SBB's Rum recipe and when to know its done

[cwglee51]

Hi All,
Started SBB's rum recipe with 2 batches.
One I used Bakers yeast as prescribed.
The other I tried Lalvin 1118.
It's been working away for 9 days now.

The Lalvin is still working away, but the Bakers has stopped. No bubbles or visual activity.

The PH of both batches reads 4.3 Bakers and 4.4 Lalvin.

The gravity, for what its worth, reads 1.04 on the bakers and 1.05 on the lalvin.

The Bakers isn't terribly sweet, but there is definitely still a touch of sweetness that goes along with some sour.
The Lalvin is somewhat sweeter now, but it's still working so I'm not surprised.

My question is, is there any way to know if the bakers is truly done? It's been 48 hours with no activity, and no real change in the numbers. Not having the experience of taste to know what tastes done and what doesn't hampers me here. I was assuming there'd be no sweetness at all once done, but maybe I'm incorrect?

Thanks for your thought/suggestions!

[nerdybrewer]

What is the temperature of the wash?
Have you tried stirring to see if there's a lot of trapped CO2?

[der wo]

If it tastes still sweet, there are fermentable sugars left. Unfermentables of molasses don't taste sweet.
Either it's too cold or there are nutrition problems. All molasses washs are high gravity and are therefore hard to ferment. If it's not too cold I would add some fertilizer or DAP (except you already have). You will see it fermenting after a few hours probably.

[cwglee51]

Ok thanks, will try DAP in that case.
I have a heater on it and temperature is consistent 90 to 92.
I stirred it this morning and really no bubbles or activity came of it.

[der wo]

Don't forget to report us, if it helped.

[StillerBoy]

Usually, I say usually only because I've had one or two ferments that didn't behavior as so, is that when a fermentation batch is done, the top level of the ferment will start to clear.. in AG, the best indicator is the cap will start to settle down..

The SG is one indicator, but I mainly go with the top level clearing on the ferment as the best indicator (which is the reason why I like to use a fermenter that I can see through so that I can observe the behavior)..

Mars

[der wo]

Usually, I say usually only because I've had one or two ferments that didn't behavior as so, is that when a fermentation batch is done, the top level of the ferment will start to clear..

Yes, it says that it has stopped fermenting. But it doesn't say, why. Normally because all sugar is consumed by the yeast, but in this case (it tastes sweet) perhaps because there is a problem.

[StillerBoy]

der wo.. this is what I was referring too..

It's been 48 hours with no activity, and no real change in the numbers.

My error for not posting it properly.. and to state that there could be a problem, well without some highthex equipment, as hobbyist we are not able to determine what could be wrong, if anything is wrong.. on a rum wash, went done, the top level will lighten up in color as the unfermentalbes settle down..

Mars

[Saltbush Bill]

The Bakers isn't terribly sweet, but there is definitely still a touch of sweetness that goes along with some sour.

It will be done, leave it another few days to a week to settle then run it.
Did you keep it warm for most of the ferment?

The gravity, for what its worth, reads 1.04 on the bakers and 1.05 on the lalvin.

You can not and will not get an accurate reading on a molasses wash due to all of the impurities in it.
Forget that rubbish and go back to the simple things, your finger and your tongue.

The other I tried Lalvin 1118.

.
I wont comment on this one as its not my recipe, 1118 is the last yeast I would use for a Rum. 1118 was originally designed for use in the Champagne industry ...we aint making Champagne here.

Ok thanks, will try DAP in that case.

Ive made thousands of liters of this wash over the past 4-5 years and never once needed to add anything other than what is in the recipe.
This a simple recipe, no need to over complicate it.

[Saltbush Bill]

and are therefore hard to ferment.

Molasses Rum washes are one of the easiest thing to ferment. I can only suggest that the molasses you get in your country is of an inferior quality if you are having trouble fermenting it.
You seem to have knack for over complicating things, maybe that is the reason you have trouble.

[der wo]

and are therefore hard to ferment.

Molasses Rum washes are one of the easiest thing to ferment. I can only suggest that the molasses you get in your country is of an inferior quality if you are having trouble fermenting it.
You seem to have knack for over complicating things, maybe that is the reason you have trouble.

Your recipe has an OG of almost 1.120 and should give around 10%abv. IMO not easy for the yeast.
Yes, molasses wash can be made very easily. IMO in your recipe the epsom salt is not needed, because molasses have enough magnesium. And two different vitamine B products is overcomplicating.
However DAP or fertilizer always leads to lower FGs, especially with molasses, not really with grains (here it's only speeding up the ferment I think). If someone wants to simplify this recipe further and get more yield, toss out the epsom and one of the vitamine B products and add a bit DAP.
I only wanted to help cwglee51. You don't need to be offended only because a new member doesn't have 100% succes with your recipe and gets other tips than you would offer him. I once restarted a molasses wash with fertilizer, it worked well.

Yes. Perhaps I shouldn't use German sugar cane molasses...

The gravity, for what its worth, reads 1.04 on the bakers and 1.05 on the lalvin.

You can not and will not get an accurate reading on a molasses wash due to all of the impurities in it.
Forget that rubbish and go back to the simple things, your finger and your tongue.

Of course you get very accurate readings of the specific gravity. But if you are able or not to see what they mean is up to you.
His tongue told him it's still sweet. If your tongue tells you it's still sweet, do you really think, all fermentables are consumed?

[Saltbush Bill]

I'm not even going to bother arguing the point with you Der wo, I've made enough of this rum to know that it works and that the recipe works well as is.
You on the other hand seem to spend most of your time thinking up half baked ideas on how to improve your own rum by adding acids , vinegar's and other such things. Maybe when you get your own rum tasting the way you want it, you will be in a position to advise others on how to do it.

[der wo]

Just as you wish.
Whatever, if my advice helps the OP, it's fine, if it doesn't help, it's fine for me too.

[Yummyrum]

Well I’ll add my tuppence . I’ve been making my Rum almost the same as Saltys . Unlike him , I do use a hydrometer . Not every time but now and against. .... Not because I think it will help or I couldn’t make it without measurements .... but just because I’m occasionally curious .

First off I agree with der wo’s guestimation of a start gravity of 1.120

My washes pretty much always end up around 1.057 +/- 3 . ..... but I add Dunder .
Seeing this is your first Rum wash I can assume there is no Dunder and your reading of 1.040 is in my opinion done . And I would suggest also that you sound like you have some pretty good Mollases.

It can be a bit tricky first time to catagorically differentiate between the bitterness of a done Rum and the taste of the molasses. The brain tends to trick you a bit but after a few runs you get more familiar with it .

So my opinion is after 9 days at 32 deg c + and a gravity of 1.040 , it’s done . If it’s not , it’s so bloody close it’s not worth stuffing around with .

The next run you do with Dunder , the wash will finish much higher ( and start a bit higher too ) .
By all means check your washes with a hydrometer but only use it as a guide not an absolute .
Your tongue will still work when you have dropped your hydrometer on the floor ....best you calibrate your tongue .

And yeah , keep EC1118 for wine not Rum .... Bread yeast is much better .

[Saltbush Bill]

So my opinion is after 9 days at 32 deg c + and a gravity of 1.040 , it’s done . If it’s not , it’s so bloody close it’s not worth stuffing around with .

Thank you for your valued opinion Yummy , you do explain things so much more eloquently than I , you also have much more patience than me.

It can be a bit tricky first time to catagorically differentiate between the bitterness of a done Rum and the taste of the molasses. The brain tends to trick you a bit but after a few runs you get more familiar with it .

Your tongue will still work when you have dropped your hydrometer on the floor ....best you calibrate your tongue .

Anyone who cant tell when a wash is done by taste alone really should learn to. As you've pointed out hydrometers don't bounce and the shops are not always close handy or open when you need them.

[Yummyrum]

Thank you for your valued opinion Yummy , you do explain things so much more eloquently than I.

Haa Haa .. the Eloquence of a ballerina elephant maybe .

Anyone who cant tell when a wash is done by taste alone really should learn to.

Totally agree Salty . Like most things it takes a few times to get right .

[cwglee51]

Hi All, thanks for the debate here!
Wanted to provide an update, I did in fact add a 2 teaspoons of DAP to 4 gallons of wash. No effects in the last 24 hours.
The best way I can describe the subtle 'sweetness' i taste is to say it tastes like the smell of the empty molasses containers I have sitting out waiting to collect some dunder....if that makes sense.
In other words, it tastes like the smell of molasses.

The PH reads 4.3 on both batches.
The smell of alcohol is quite strong if you stick your nose near it.
The Lalvin batch still tastes a touch sweeter, and is visibly still working.
I'll give the bakers another 48 hours and if no change I'll run it.
Will provide some updates along the way.

Thanks again!

[cwglee51]

Also just to note. I used grandmas molasses brand, paid 15$ a gallon, hopefully its good enough stuff...

[googe]

+1 sbb, yummy.

[Jimy Dee]

SBB and Yummy are the undisputed world heavy weight champs in this one, listen and learn, no deviation. KISS - keep it simple stupid. Keep going now and tell us how the run went. We'll done so far. JD

[Saltbush Bill]

Thanks for the feedback cwglee51

Also just to note. I used grandmas molasses brand, paid 15$ a gallon, hopefully its good enough stuff..

Googled it and yes it looks to be good stuff, but rather expensive. This recipe works just as well using stock feed molasses if you are able to buy it cheaper.

I did in fact add a 2 teaspoons of DAP to 4 gallons of wash. No effects in the last 24 hours.

At least now you have proved to yourself that the addition of more nutrients is not needed.....so we can discount that myth.

The PH reads 4.3 on both batches.

Unless you have seriously weird water where you live the PH shouldn't be of concern. I never have checked PH and they still ferment out dry every time.
At least one person "seems somewhat confused" and thinks this recipe needs two different sources of Vit B ....Have I explained that part of the recipe badly and does it need change to how its written do you think?
Just wondering how it seemed to you when you read it?

[nerdybrewer]

Just my $0.0(pittance)

KISS as someone before said, is really the best with rum.
My current batch is sitting at 1.0030 gravity.
That's 100Lbs Panela in 40(something) gallons of water.
This was so simple it almost hurt.
I dumped 100Lb Panela sugar in my fermentation vessel.
To that I added hot water, no more than 120F.
Stirred.
Added yeast.
Stirred every other day.
Day 5 I added two oyster shells, just for good measure
On the 7th day it was at 1.010
On the 9th day it was at 1.0030

It's done, but there is still activity on the surface. I will let it go a while longer until it is still.

Not rocket science.

I have tried the route of rocket science, it's complicated, expensive and fraught with peril.

[Saltbush Bill]

Just my $0.0(pittance)
KISS as someone before said, is really the best with rum.

Thanks for your support Nerdy, A lot of people agree with you and I on that fact .
Some wont and we have to accept that you will always get differing opinions on a forum of any type.
The whole reason I posted my recipe was to give people a simple and straight forward recipe for fermenting Molasses only washes.
Depending on how that wash is treated after fermentation will dictate how the end product turns out.
Rum making need not be the "Rocket Science BS " that some people believe that it needs to be.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

You can also make whiskey by throwing corn and sugar in a bucket, and filling it with water. Or, you can sow, harvest, and malt that corn. Then dry it, toast it for a bit of mallard reaction, grind it, and mash it. And it makes whiskey.

This hobby is vast and intricate. It can be as simple or as complicated as the user wants it to be. Everyone has different levels of curiosity in the hobby. Each path has its own rewards, and no one is wrong for how involved they want to get into it.

In any case, there is no room for continued personal jabs. Difference of opinions and experiences should be shared with mutual respect for each other. I personally would have liked to express my experiences in the matter, but at this point would have only seemed to be used against one person's argument or the other. When this happens and members refrain from contributing because of it, a thread becomes toxic and is no longer of use to this forum.