Mash has no alcohol

[Poppiecock]

Hey everyone. I made my first mash 2 weeks ago using a recipe from a book about moonshining. The only difference was that i didnt use commercial whiskey yeast. I made mynown yeast as i bake and figured id try that first.

The mash was 6 litres corn flakes and 2 litres milled barley and 22 litres of spring water. After the first day a lot of bubble appeared almost as if a thick soapy film on top the mash (like a bubble bath). It was in an open container in a well ventilated room. Then the bubbles disappeared and the bubbling slowed down considerably. I would stir it to add oxygen to help kick start the yeast. On day 3.5 i added some boiling water (2L) to help raise the temprature a bit again to help kick start the yeast. I poured it in slowly while i stirred the pot.

After about 1.5 weeks there was barely any bubbling so i decided to still it. I admit i got a bit impatient and wanted to just make it already, maybe the bubbling was slow but not completely done.

The smell was very pungent, almost like vomit. But i could swear there was a bit of an alcohol smell. Like a weak beer. I read somewhere thats pretty normal for a corn mash. So i didnt think anything of it. I dont have a brewers hydrometre so i couldnt take before and after readings.

I just started stilling it and no alcohol is coming out. I boiled the liquid and the temprature jumped straight to 100C (212F). Its just smelly water. Tastes like water too.

What do you think was the problem? Im guessing its the lack of decent yeast. But from what i gather, that mainly impacts fermentation time, or am i wrong. Ive heard of places/people of do wild ferment whiskey mashes.

Any advice is helpful. Ill be starting my next mash after this long weekend. Cheers and thanks in advance.

[NZChris]

Throw the book away. It either has a chapter missing, or the author doesn't know his subject.

Go to the Tried and True section of this forum and start reading.

[Twisted Brick]

viewforum.php?f=46&start=25

[Syke]

First step, fermentation. Try something simple. Add some yeast to pure apple juice (no preservatives). Taste a sample daily and get to know how the sweetness disappears as it's converted to alcohol. If it takes longer than a week or so, you didn't use enough yeast. Once the bubbling has stopped and the sweetness is gone, it's ready to be distilled.

[Tummydoc]

Malted barley, or unmalted? If unmalted, you had no enzymes to convert starch to sugar. Most of us use bread yeast for the ferment so doubt your yeast was the issue. Read more from this forum rather than a book. This is your new bible. And stick with tried and true initially.

[CuWhistle]

This should be fun.

Cornflakes, milled barley and spring water. Breakfast anybody??? I like milk and sugar on mine.

No. Seriously, we need more information. What did you actually do with these ingredients?

[fizzix]

Poppiecock, there's nothing in your recipe that indicates alcohol being made. I see no sugar or mashed grain...
Not jumping on you, but you really need to understand what goes into creating a wash or mash. You must either add
a quantity of sugar, or convert sugar from grain starches. HERE is a good read about it.

When beginning this journey, start with a responsible recipe such as one from our Tried & True Recipes section.
They not only work, but if you do have trouble they are easy to troubleshoot. Also get a covered fermenting vessel with an airlock to keep out stray, natural yeasts and infections.
Brew shops have buckets and airlocks precisely for this use. You'll also eventually need hydrometers (those glass tube things) to check gravity and alcohol-by-volume, AND USE THEM.

And read, read, read. We all want you to succeed, but you must help yourself.

If you want to research a subject, use the HD Google Search (above). Here's how it works:

Best of luck on your next adventure. You can do this!

[Poppiecock]

So the recipe went like this.

Malted barley was used. Marris otter.

I boiled 22L of water. Then i turned of the heat. Threw in the flaked corn and sitrred. I waited an hour then threw in the malted barley and stirred. 8 hours later with occasional stirring, i threw in the yeast when it hit the right temprature (i cant remember what that is right now). Then i waited for fermentation. The mash did taste sweet before i added the yeast. And it tasted sour before i distilled.

Ill check out the forums for my next recipe. But if the process is similar would anyone know what failed? Did i get too impatient and distill before it did its thing. Maybe i added too little yeast? But doesnt yeast multiply?

Thanks again.

[greggn]

> I boiled 22L of water. Then i turned of the heat. Threw in the flaked corn and sitrred. I waited an hour then threw in the malted barley and stirred.


Do you know at what temperature you added the barley ? Chances are it was too hot for the malt and the enzymes were denatured.

While you don't necessarily need to know all of the science behind this hobby it does require following some basic processes and procedures to be successful.

[still_stirrin]

Poppiecock, I’m not wanting to “dogpile” on you, but you have gotten ahead of yourself. You REALLY need to read HERE a while before proceeding. Distilling is a DANGEROUS hobby and that is compounded when you don’t know what you’re doing.

The very first thing you need to know in this hobby is how to make (distiller’s) beer. That means how to formulate a (or follow a proven) recipe. The Tried & True recipe can help you with that. Then, you must understand the fermentation process and abide by the requirements, that is...manage the conditions necessary for yeast to do it’s process.

As a baker, I’m sure you should be qualified to activate yeast and enable it to make your baking goods “rise”. That requires proper mixing of ingredients, which includes some available sugar as food for the yeast cells as well as the proper temperature for the yeast to work. You also cover the bread so it stays moist and allow it to gradually grow.

When fermenting a distiller’s beer, you similarly need to maintain the proper temperature....not too warm nor too cool. For bread yeast, that temperature is 85*-90*F. Also, the yeast need oxygen for the reproduction phase (budding), so give your wash/mash a good stir or shake before you pitch the yeast. But once latent fermentation has begun the process is anaerobic (without oxygen). So, you don’t want to stir the ferment after it has started.

OK. The keynote here is READ, READ, and READ some more. You need to do your homework before getting ahead of yourself. This website has all the necessary reading for you. Sit back and get acquainted with it. Soon, you’ll know better what you did wrong or how you failed. But, you’ll also know how to do it right.

Good luck. Be safe, responsible, and discrete.
ss

[Setsumi]

cornflakes in a mash will add little fermentables an your 2lt of malt in 20lt of water will be low on fermentables. did you mill you malt? at what tem did you mash your malt? or was the malt bakers malt?

a suggestion as was previously said, if you are using cornflakes add enough plain sugar. if you want fermentables from grains check mashing processes.

AND check sugar content in your wort/mash/beer.

[Pikey]

In 20 LItres of wash, you want UP TO 4 kg sugar to make the alcohol.

No sugar - No alcohol - simple as !

If it Boiled at 100C then you had no alcohol. An all grain mash is harder and requires some knowledge.

Look up Odin's cornflake whiskey - that's pretty good and easy peasy !

[Poppiecock]

Ok. All this has been super informative. I will definetely read the links provided before i do my next run. Thanks everyone for the advice. Ill keep you all posted.

[Saltbush Bill]

If it boiled at 100c thats exactly what you have in your still.....smelly water.
Go to the recipe section of the forum and try making something like UJSM. When you have that sortted move on.

[Birrofilo]

I suggest you buy the fundamental instruments, such as a thermometer to "hit" the right mashing temperature, and a hydrometer to know the original density of the wort you want to ferment, and the final density, which will also tell you how much alcohols you have in your beer after fermentation, and if the fermentation is completed, and if all went well.

If you don't have a previous experience in beer making, maybe it is better - just to eliminate a complication - to start from a wort made of dried malt extract (DME), or liquid malt extract (LME). They are sold in homebrewing stores ready to use (besides diluting them with water) so you don't have to worry about the mashing phase, or the fineness of the grinding.

" On day 3.5 i added some boiling water (2L) to help raise the temprature a bit again to help kick start the yeast. I poured it in slowly while i stirred the pot"

Temperature control is better made with a thermal pad or a thermal belt connected to a thermostat (again, stuff sold in homebrewing stores). Raising the wort temperature by adding boiling water is, IMHO, not a good idea. You mix the wort and the boiling water is not immediately cooled down to wort temperature: you might have killed the yeast with that manoevre.

[PirateShiner]

Ugh I had the same problem, boiled my water to 165, added 12lbs of my malt and stirred off and on for an hour, then let it sit, pitched my yeast at 75 degrees. When it allegedly stopped working I strained it and I ran it this evening, I kept the temp low but it kept burping and puking even at the lowest temps and not a drop of alcohol in it…. I wasn’t happy lol.

[Ben]

In the future you want your mash to sit and hold somewhere between 143 and 150, and it needs to hold that temp for the duration of saccharification. Wrapping your pot with a blanket or sleeping bag works well for this, or you can mash in a picnic cooler. If you drop below about 140 the enzymes will slow down to a crawl. There are active enzymes up to 160, but they will give you more unfermentable sugars. Beta amylase (the one we are most interested in) denatures if you hold it at 160+. You should also starch test when you think it's done. If the starch test is positive give the mash more time, with an all malt mash you should have plenty of diastatic power.

Get a brewing hydrometer, it will help you learn what is going on. There are calculators around that can tell you what your starting gravity should be, and you should finish somewhere between 0.990 and 1.010.

Burping and puking is usually due to the still being overfull, you need to manage the heat to get that not to happen, eventually the hot break will settle back into the boiler and you can turn it up a little. The easier way to do this is give yourself a little more head space.