How to use/run a flute still

[Eckardt M]

Good day everyone. Hope all is well.

I got a new still. It's a 4", 4 plate flute still.
I do not know how to use this still. I tried google but no luck. I also looked here on the forum, maybe I am looking at the the wrong place.

The still does not have T-section sight glasses, it has 4 spools. So I cannot see what is happening inside.

Just looking for some basic advise to using a still like this.

I have been using the still that is attached. It's a 2" reflux still.

[Eckardt M]

This is what I have been using

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Mod Edit ... I snatched your tapatalk photo and posted it direct here .
Please don’t use tapatalk or other photo hosting as they have a habit of dissapearing

[Yummyrum]

Are you sure its a plate still ?
It looks like a Boka style Liquid Management still to me .They usually have two slant plates at the top for collection and redistribution of the reflux .
These stills are normally packed with scrubbers, marbles , SPP or some other structured packing . The are very tall as they are usually used for making a neutral spirit .

Plated stills generally are not as tall with the plates being spaced typically 4-5” apart , a 4 plate section it about 16-20 “ long . Yours looks almost twice that long .

[Saltbush Bill]

Yes that is the reflux still that he has been using prior to the new still Yummy. Specsavers have a special on at the moment.

[bluefish_dist]

First off what do you want to make? That effects how you run the still.

[Yummyrum]

Yes that is the reflux still that he has been using prior to the new still Yummy. Specsavers have a special on at the moment.

Just clicked on the link of the pic he posted and thought it was the still he was talking about . ... got to let the brain kick into action before posting

[Saltbush Bill]

We all do it from time to time...lol

[Yummyrum]

Thanks Salty ....should redeem myself and be slightly more useful.
Eckardt
Running blind can be hard with a plated still first couple of times .
However as a pretty predictable ball park you could run with about 2400 -3000w power under about 40 liters of wash at around 10%abv .
Adjust the deflag so you are taking off around 2 - 2.5 liters per hour .

These are pretty generic figures but should get you going . Less than 2000-2400 watts and you probably won’t get your plates to load. More than 3000 - 3600w you will risk flooding but if it’s still handling without flooding then you start to get tails pulling through .

The takeoff rate is also generic but works well for most 4” plated stills . As Bluefish said , it depends what you are trying to make exactly what rate you run it at but I am giving you a good starting point from which to start tweaking it from .

The 10 % wash rate and 40liter charge references are valid . If you run with say less than 7-8% avb charge then I find the still doesn’t run very well .... they like a higher avb charge . Stripping one wash and adding it more wash helps if you have a low avb wash .

The 40liter charge reference is because I ( and others ) find that with a smaller charge the run is often short . IE , you only get into hearts just long enough and the tails start . With a bigger charge , the hearts cut lasts longer .

[Saltbush Bill]

I got a new still. It's a 4", 4 plate flute still.

The still does not have T-section sight glasses, it has 4 spools. So I cannot see what is happening inside.

Id be interested to see some photos of this still and to know who made it and sold it to you without windows.
Im guessing one of the many cheap Chinese copys that seem to be popping up all over the place.
Yummy has given you some pretty good advise on running it.
The only thing that I can add is that in my opinion its going to be a royal pain in the arse to run PROPERLY without windows.
It wont be impossible, but I'm glad I don't have to run it.
Plated columns like the plates loaded just right to run well ....if flooded they don't cope well ..ABV will drop and they will start to pull tails no matter where you are in the run. If the opposite situation arises "plates not fully loaded" you can expect similar problems.
Whats going on in those windows can tell many stories....to much power or not enough power....not enough or to much reflux,,,, low or high abv by the size of the bubbles on different plates,,,,, end of run by bottom windows fogging, with experience the list grows and grows, without windows you will be flying by the seat of your pants .....good luck.

EDIT
Your experience with a reflux still will help...but your reflux only had one packed column that could flood .....pretty easy to tell when that happens.
All of the plates in a plated column usually dont flood at the same time ....just one will start and get worse and worse over time from my experience...sometimes maybe two......in extreme cases all of them.........which ones flood can also vary depending on the abv of the wash at the time....depending on where you are in the run........these are just my experiences....hopefully of some help.
In short your not just keeping an eye on what one column is doing ....your baby sitting 4 different plates at the same time.....or can be when things dont go to plan.

[Eckardt M]

Good evening everyone.

This is the still. It was made here is South Africa. I bought it second hand. I will be making Rum and Neutral with this still. I have no idea how much power used to heat the keg. I am using a gas burner.

I wanted to have sight glasses, but the still did not come with that. I want to try and buy 2 sight glasses from ebay or aliexpress, but this will only happen later as I don't have the funds for it now.

I have the still now and just wanted some advise as to where to go from here. I can always add to the still, (this will only happen on a later stage).

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[Setsumi]

Eckardt you can do sight glasses with 32 or 42 or 54mm unions from any large plumbing store in SA. glass is a bit difficult but search for borsilica discs. there is one lab compony in SA that does to size.

to run your still blind. open reflux and heat full. as soon as product come over reduce heat till no product. reflux a bit and reduce reflux water till you get your product stream. play around with figures yummyrummy gave but as a start stay at 1.6 to 1.8 lt per hour. increase takeoff once you are happy with run and priduct... close to a potstill...

edit to add conex union

[Eckardt M]

Eckardt you can do sight glasses with 32 or 42 or 54mm unions from any large plumbing store in SA. glass is a bit difficult but search for borsilica discs. there is one lab compony in SA that does to size.

to run your still blind. open reflux and heat full. as soon as product come over reduce heat till no product. reflux a bit and reduce reflux water till you get your product stream. play around with figures yummyrummy gave but as a start stay at 1.6 to 1.8 lt per hour. increase takeoff once you are happy with run and priduct... close to a potstill...

edit to add conex union

Hello Setsumi, thanks for the advise.

Do you mean I should get 54mm SS tubing and weld it to the SS spools? Will 54mm be wide enough?

[Yummyrum]

I think setsumi is on the right track , fit some sight glasses to your modules .

2” glasses are perfectly adequate. You could just buy a 2” tri-clamp and ferrule. You would need to grind the fishmouth into the end of the ferrule then either weld it or soft solder it to the module . They don’t need welding for strength , soft lead free solder does the job easily .

Although Salt bush is right that flooding can occur differently on the plates , if budget is an issue you could get away with just adding a window to the top module . As long as its running sweet , generally the others will be too .

[Yummyrum]

Using a gas burner blind on the first few runs will be tricky .Not sure what sort of burner or Regulator you have but if it helps , I have a three ring bango burner and a standard gas reg . I would typically only have the outside ring on with a flame about 1/2” high . .... that should get you in the ball park .

If you are talking off product at around 2-2.5 l/h on a 10% wash , it will be coming off at around 92% abv which should indicate you are running OK

If you are much lower than this it would suggest that your plates aren’t loaded and running correctly .

[Setsumi]

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this is a conex compression fitting, you get up to 54mm but a but pricy. solder or braze a small piece of copper pipe on your column and then split the union in 2 an solder it to the pipe.. glass is tricky in SA but there is a place that do borsilica disks.

although a large sight glass is nice you can see enough with a 35mm glass.

[Eckardt M]

Good day everyone, hope all is well.

I looked at a few options for sight glasses.

I found the following. Just a question, will I lose to much heat with the all glass sight glass?[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201908 ... cee516.jpg[/IMG]

[Eckardt M]

This is the other idea. Like Yummyrum said, just cut the fish mouth and solder or weld it to the spools.

Will this be a better option?[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201908 ... 083fe1.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201908 ... 775147.jpg[/IMG]

[Eckardt M]

One other thing, do I need 4 sight glasses or can I use 2? One top and one bottom?

[Setsumi]

One other thing, do I need 4 sight glasses or can I use 2? One top and one bottom?

all options you posted will work although it might be expensive but then you get the glass with. I will look at the last one but check that seal. most will say you need glasses on all plates but I have only one on the top plate and it work for me though I would like to see the bottom plate as well. If you can start with the top and bottom.

[Setsumi]

AND you have a modular still, so if you start with 2 glasses you can decide where to place them between runs and find your best locations.

[Eckardt M]

Good day everyone, hope everyone is doing well.

I have bought 4 inspection glass for the spools. I will attach them this coming week. I did find that the 4" spools are 8" high. Where as a normal T-sight glass is 6" high and is looks like the inspection glass is in die middle of the 6" spool.

So I was thinking of putting the inspection glass 3" from the bottom and still be able to see the plate.

The inspection glass ferrule size is 2.5" that will go on to the 4" spool.

Will keep you up to date when we are finished.
[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201909 ... d49a40.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201909 ... bcbf1c.jpg[/IMG]

[Yummyrum]

.......
So I was thinking of putting the inspection glass 3" from the bottom and still be able to see the plate.

The inspection glass ferrule size is 2.5" that will go on to the 4" spool.

I hope you mean centred 3” from the bottom , personally I’d mount it a bit lower perhaps centered 2 1/4” from the bottom tops .

I have 4” high modules , 2” sight glasses mounted midway . The view is good . If it was centered much higher I would be staring at basically nothing ..... still , so long as you can still look down and see bubbles and not see the windows flooding all is good

Good luck with the modifications . Keep us posted .
BTW , you should post your pics direct to HD forum via attachments rather via tapatalk . Hosted pics have a tendancy to get lost over time .
Attaching pics is now easy as you don’t have to rescale them anymore .

[Eckardt M]

.......
So I was thinking of putting the inspection glass 3" from the bottom and still be able to see the plate.

The inspection glass ferrule size is 2.5" that will go on to the 4" spool.

I hope you mean centred 3” from the bottom , personally I’d mount it a bit lower perhaps centered 2 1/4” from the bottom tops .

I have 4” high modules , 2” sight glasses mounted midway . The view is good . If it was centered much higher I would be staring at basically nothing ..... still , so long as you can still look down and see bubbles and not see the windows flooding all is good [emoji106]

Good luck with the modifications . Keep us posted .
BTW , you should post your pics direct to HD forum via attachments rather via tapatalk . Hosted pics have a tendancy to get lost over time .
Attaching pics is now easy as you don’t have to rescale them anymore .

Hello Yummyrum,

Thanks for the reply. Yes I meant mounting the sight glass 3" centred. I can also look at 2 1/4" thanks.

How do I attach pictures as an attachment? Do you mean I have to attach the pictures when I am on HD on the web browser?

[Yummyrum]

How do I attach pictures as an attachment? Do you mean I have to attach the pictures when I am on HD on the web browser?

Sorry about late reply .
Here’s how to do it . But just ignore the resizing step ( that was needed for our old forum ).Unless of coarse you want to reduce your upload data usage.

Just skip to the “Attachments” part .

It couldn’t be easier now .
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=66849#p7477206

[emptyglass]

You're pretty screwed without sight glasses when you first start running. You really need them at first. they show you whats going on.

After a while you dont really need them at all.

No amount of sight glasses will teach you how to ferment, cut and age what you make

[Eckardt M]

You're pretty screwed without sight glasses when you first start running. You really need them at first. they show you whats going on.

After a while you dont really need them at all.

No amount of sight glasses will teach you how to ferment, cut and age what you make

Absolutely true on the last part.

I am getting sight glasses fitted, should be finished soon. Will post a pic.

The fermentations I am getting better at, making cut's is still difficult but getting there. Ageing I am not so good at, still experimenting.

Thanks for your reply.

[Eckardt M]

Good day everyone, hope everyone is well.

I have welded sight glasses to the spools. Now the experiments can begin.

Will be using a 5KW gas burner to get the 40L wash up to temp. Thanks for all the input from everyone.

I would still like to know what do I look for?
Do I need a thermometer above the deplagmater?

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[Yummyrum]

Looks good Eckardt

No you don’t need a thermometer .

So you have bubble cap plates . This will mean that you can turn the power way down before plate colapse .... something that perf plate operators have to be warey of .

Finding the maximum power the still can handle is the first thing you need to do . It may be due to the deflagmator not being able to cope with 5kW of power or the plates start to flood .

In the first instance you will see product starting to fill the parrot . So back the power off until it stops .

Flooding occurs when vapour is going up the still quicker than the downcomers can return the reflux to the boiler. The liquid level will start to significantly rise in the plates above the downcomer height . Again , turn down the heat and slowly the level in the plates will lower to running height .

As mentioned above , you won’t need to worry about plate colapse at really low power , just the plate action will be sluggish .

I would suggest once the plates have loaded , turn your power down to just above half power as a starting ball park .

Time to do a cleaning run . Oh and a vinegar and steam run will be completely different to when you run an actual alcohol wash in it .

[Saltbush Bill]

What sort of tap will you be using to adjust water flow to the dephleg. Having fine control over that will also help with running.

[Yummyrum]

Thats a great point Salty . I messed around with cheap arse needle valves and they drove me nuts . A good quality needle valve is priceless.