Pot Still and ABV%

[Andrew_90]

On a spirit run I start at circa 80% ABV.

What I can get my head around is how do I lift that to 95% ABV or is it simply impossible, no matter how many passes one makes.

I am busy with a mod to get a CCVM bit was wondering what the limits of a potstill are.

[still_stirrin]

You’re using a CCVM and only pull 80% ABV? You need to increase the reflux ratio. That, and a taller column. And the packing type makes a big difference.

Above all, it sounds like you don’t know how to run your still. But, the good news is that “experience will help”. So, get busy. Run and rerun. Practice makes perfect.

A properly built and operated reflux still should be able to reach 95% ABV. If not, you’re doing something wrong.

But, with a potstill using a strip + spirit run protocol (double distillation), you should be able to get to 70-75% ABV with a low wines charge around 30% ABV. If you’re getting 80% ABV off the still at the start of the run, you’re “above average”... a B+ grade. Good job.
ss

[Deplorable]

My current pot still starts at 90% for the fores jar on a spirit run. My hearts are ~70%
My guesstimate is that I'm getting an unusual amount of reflux from the copper mesh in my SS riser, and the tiny .375" outlet to the liebig. This will be rectified before my next distillation.
My new still is 2" from the top of the pot all the way through the condenser.

[Corsaire]

At what abv is your boiler charge? That's the only thing you can use to get higher purity.

Each distillation cycle raises purity, but at diminishing returns. So it's relatively easy to go from an 8% wash to 30% low wines, then to a 60% keeper cut. Subsequent steps yield lower abv gains.

There's alcohol liquid vs vapor temp charts that can help illustrate the point.

For safety reasons we advise to keep your boiler charge below 40%

Reflux columns have a number of redistillation cycles, and that will determine purity. Eg a 4 plate flute will have 5 cycles: 1 in the boiler, and 1 on every plate. In reality it's a bit more nuanced than that.

Packed columns can do more, depending on packing material, vapor speed and reflux ratio.

Iirc I've read that 95%+ takes around 10 distillation cycles, but for tasteless neutral you need at least 20. That's not something I'm willing to do with my pot still, so I'd encourage you to get that ccvm sorted

Pots are rather inefficient, but you can exploit that inefficiency to make great tasteful spirits.

[Andrew_90]

In the meanwhile I am going to pack my column.

[Setsumi]

In the meanwhile I am going to pack my column.

without active reflux it will not help. spend the time on the CCVM rather.

[v-child]

Something tells me that you need to do your homework.

[Andrew_90]

I have done much homework. The end goal is whisky hence the pot still. The pot still was built specifically to allow easy conversion to a CCVM still.

As part of my homework I saw that many are packing a pot still column.

Where I am now is learning the art of distilling with a sugar wash in what I have, a pot still. I knew that I could not get the purity of a reflux operation but was simply unaware to what degree.

I thought posting of forums was part of learning (homework).

[Corsaire]

Most pack copper in the column for its ability to clean up sulphur components, if they run an all ss still. Without forced reflux it doesn't really boost abv.

Imo if you want to make whisky, stick to a pot. Double distilling for most Scotch and American style whisky, triple for Irish.

You can try adding a thumper if you want.

To me, chasing abv is less important than chasing flavor. Usually higher abv means lighter spirits.

[Durhommer]

My sugar shines start at 82%on my pot still my ag 80 so not much difference I'm after the flavor over proof other than scotch I find it hard to drink nail polish smelling store bought likker am I the only one who smells that smell in store bought stuff

[Yummyrum]

What I can get my head around is how do I lift that to 95% ABV or is it simply impossible, no matter how many passes one makes.

In theory you most certainly could get 95% out of a Pot still .( The reason you can’t is because we always recommend dilution back down to 40% before redistilling for safety reasons .)
You may have seen this diagram before .
So if you draw a imaginary line from 40% , when it hits the blue line , go across to the red line then back down to the blue line . You will be now at about 78% . Go across to the red line and down to the blue again . You are now at 86% . Do it again , your now at 90% .

As you can see each time you redistill , the gains in AVB get smaller but eventually you will get there . This is why it is often said you will need to redistill about 20 times to get to 95% .
( But all this assumes you are adding high strength back to the boiler which we do not condone) .

OK so heres another thing to think about .
Yes you can keep redistilling in a Pot still and ultimately get a high ABV .... but unless you do a Cut on every redistillation , you will just end up with high proof cocktail of concentrated Foreshots, heads, hearts and Tails .

A pot still is not very efficient at seperating fractions . So say you just took the middle third of every run and redistilled that , you wouldn’t end up with a lot .

Thank goodness fir reflux stills

[Saltbush Bill]

but unless you do a Cut on every redistillation , you will just end up with high proof cocktail of concentrated Foreshots, heads, hearts and Tails .

Well said Yummy , I think sometimes some newbs loose sight of that fact, you can redistill until the end of time ,but without cuts each time your just rehashing the same old rubbish.
Even starting off with 40L of low wines you would end up with very little at the end.........in short much more trouble than it would be worth.

Thank goodness for reflux stills

[acfixer69]

++1 reflux still for clean up

[jayka]

The end goal is whisky hence the pot still.

Where I am now is learning the art of distilling with a sugar wash in what I have, a pot still. I knew that I could not get the purity of a reflux operation but was simply unaware to what degree.

I thought posting of forums was part of learning (homework).

Hey Andrew, if your goal is to make whiskey I wouldn't worry about your ABV off the still. there is no requirement for high ABV for whiskey. That's a requirement for neutrals.

As far as packing your column. just pack with copper. it wont affect your ABV but will help with the Copper/distillate chemical reaction.
However be careful when you start doing striping runs of all grain mashes as they tend to puke and you don't want to have to wash your copper wool.

Lastly as far as I'm concerned asking on forums is homework. So don't be afraid to ask questions, yes you'll probably get a few grumpy answers but it will also be valuable info so stick with it.

[Andrew_90]

I am a great believer in serving an apprenticeship. Sugar washes are mine before I graduate to a mash. I will not do a mash until really satisfied with a wash. So my goal now is to create as neutral a sprit I can in order to convert to Gin.

In my "neutral spirit" one can taste the more earthy tones as more wash taste is being transferred that I care for. I don't like that. The Vodka is still palatable but I know I can do better. So I need to get the CCVM made and up to speed before my next sugar wash. That will be another learning curve.

Thanks for all the comments, all are real helpful.

[Corsaire]

What sugar wash are you running for your gin base?
I like rad's all bran, just tweaked to my local ingredients. I triple pot still the base.

[NZChris]

You don't have to make a fantastically neutral spirit to be able to make gin with a pot still. You can make a fine gin by using a base spirit that matches the gin you want to make, or at least make the spirit from ingredients that don't clash with the gin.

[Setsumi]

if wiskey is your goal and you have a piece of 76mm pipe and some fabrication skills build a CCVM flute/plater. no it is not a neutral mashine but makes nice wiskey even on a one and done run

[Andrew_90]

What sugar wash are you running for your gin base?
I like rad's all bran, just tweaked to my local ingredients. I triple pot still the base.

Started with Birdwatchers then moved to Shady's which for me is much better.