Feints run...how do ya do it?

[Orpheus123]

So after a year or so of this, I have about a gallon and a half of feints. They are from sugar and grain mashes. So, I've seen how some will add feints to their spirit runs, but since these are a hodgepodge of stuff, should I just run it and see what I get? Of course I will dilute it, but given that they are heads and tails, I'm curious how much I'd get or if it's worth it. Here's my plan:

Dilute to under 40%
Run super slow in my 5 gallon pot still.
No need to worry about foreshots, so collect everything I guess.
Do cuts like a normal spirit run

Anybody do an all feints run, and if so, any advise?

[Bushman]

I always take fore’s, I won’t use them anyway. Also a hodgepodge can be good depending on what your making.

[Dougmatt]

I always take fore’s, I won’t use them anyway. Also a hodgepodge can be good depending on what your making.

+1. I like to remove early heads as much as possible in every situation so I would just toss the fores..

I’m one of those that usually adds back to the next generation of the same, but I’ve done a Few mixed feints (queens?) runs. if you are just going for some “stuff” or have already blended it together, go for it. Once you have the cut you want, use it for gin or a flavored liquor or if you like it, drink / age it as you would any other white. Make your decision after you finish the run.

Hard to tell you how “much to expect as it’s Depending on how and how long you stored the feints and how tight you did your cuts before and do during this run. You will likely be surprised at what you get.

[jonnys_spirit]

For a mixed all-feints run I feel like most folks use a reflux still to get neutral or mostly neutral and compress the fractions...

I pot-still and reuse a feints cut (late heads and tails - not all of the feints) for bourbon, brandy, rumski, agave - then chuck early heads/fores into my solvent jars to use for fire starter, weed killer, or cleaning runs.. I don't mix feints from different product categories that I'm recycling into next spirit run. I'll throw some oak in the feints carboy and it sits for many months until next spirit run of that type.. Each time I do a spirit run I'll make the feints cut decision based on however the F* I feel that day lol... Not a lot of science innit for me but maybe one day ..

I've got about three gallons of feints from a sorghum juice run I did a while back and haven't mixed those with anything. I'm telling myself that I'll eventually get the CCVM going and mix those into a sugar wash low wines or something for a neutral but I might add them to a rumski batch spirit run too but haven't yet..

Cheers!
-j

[6 Row Joe]

So after a year or so of this, I have about a gallon and a half of feints. They are from sugar and grain mashes. So, I've seen how some will add feints to their spirit runs, but since these are a hodgepodge of stuff, should I just run it and see what I get? Of course I will dilute it, but given that they are heads and tails, I'm curious how much I'd get or if it's worth it. Here's my plan:

Dilute to under 40%
Run super slow in my 5 gallon pot still.
No need to worry about foreshots, so collect everything I guess.
Do cuts like a normal spirit run

Anybody do an all feints run, and if so, any advise?

Pot still. Run it slow and make careful cuts. Always throw foreshots and carefully taste through the heads. Slow and careful cuts. I will say it again. Feints have all of the nasty stuff you didn't want to previously keep but it may be one of the best runs you have ever made.

[Orpheus123]

Pot still. Run it slow and make careful cuts. Always throw foreshots and carefully taste through the heads. Slow and careful cuts. I will say it again. Feints have all of the nasty stuff you didn't want to previously keep but it may be one of the best runs you have ever made.

OK...since none of these have foreshots in them, I would think it's ok to just start with the cuts right away. I'm really curious as to what this will turn out to be. Not sure when I'll get to it, but hopefully in the next couple of weeks. Thanks!

[6 Row Joe]

Pot still. Run it slow and make careful cuts. Always throw foreshots and carefully taste through the heads. Slow and careful cuts. I will say it again. Feints have all of the nasty stuff you didn't want to previously keep but it may be one of the best runs you have ever made.

OK...since none of these have foreshots in them, I would think it's ok to just start with the cuts right away. I'm really curious as to what this will turn out to be. Not sure when I'll get to it, but hopefully in the next couple of weeks. Thanks!

I always throw out fores even if I think there's none there. A little smearing will leave some fores behind. Besides, you don't want fingernail polish remover in your final run. What will it turn out to be? A delicious blend of everything you put into it. Because it is a spirit run (double distill) it will be thick and creamy compared to your first runs. Even more delicious on oak.

[Deplorable]

AG vodka. If I'm not planning subsequent runs of the same thing, feints go into a keg for a reflux run.
I've only ever done a queens run once and it's still on oak. It'll likely get turned into vodka in a year or two if it doesn't come around.

[EricTheRed]

So after a year or so of this, I have about a gallon and a half of feints. They are from sugar and grain mashes. So, I've seen how some will add feints to their spirit runs, but since these are a hodgepodge of stuff, should I just run it and see what I get? Of course I will dilute it, but given that they are heads and tails, I'm curious how much I'd get or if it's worth it. Here's my plan:

Dilute to under 40%
Run super slow in my 5 gallon pot still.
No need to worry about foreshots, so collect everything I guess.
Do cuts like a normal spirit run

Anybody do an all feints run, and if so, any advise?

Personally, i save up unyil i can fill my boiler to the max and reflux it.
Proper cuts and i have a 94% hp gin base.

[NZChris]

What I do depends on what is in the collection and what I need at the time. The same cache of feints can be refluxed for making gin, liqueur, Absinthe, whatever, or diluted with a matching wash and pot stilled into 'Queens Run', a flavorsome product for aging.

If doing a 'Queens Run', I dilute with a matching wash to 24-27%, run into 20 odd jars and choose a heart cut the same way I choose a heart cut for a spirit run, looking to find a nice blend rather than trying to guess which jars should be included.

[Renhoekk]

I save my heads and tails in a container until I have enough for a full reflux run. I make a neutral that I then use as a base for other things (gin, liqueurs, infusions etc).

A rough sketch of my recovery process:

- Dilute the boiler charge to 30% and raise pH to 9. This helps to clean up some of the congeners, taking a portion of the heavy lifting away from the distillation process
- The product output is 96% ABV
- The first 25%-ish of the run is where the hearts often emerge. This does vary depending on how mismatched my feints were. I'll start paying attention to the output at about the 20% mark, and things get good around the 25-30% mark
- That first cut becomes fire starter, window cleaner and sticky label remover
- Hearts will run until about 70% of the total potential alcohol is collected. Again, as the quality of my feints varies from run to run, I may get to 80% of the potential yield before tails come in
- The switch into tails is abrupt and nasty. At this point I shut down and savour my hearts bucket of reclaimed ethanol
- Lower pH of stillage for disposal

[bilgriss]

I basically run like any other spirit run, use the same criteria for selecting keepers, and like the unpredictably unique whiskey that I'll eventually end up with. I don't go deep into tails though, it usually just gets worse in a feints run.
The difference in regimen is after that. I discard all of the heads so they don't build up any further, and it's a big percentage. Might keep a little on the tails side, if I find more than expected when making cuts, as it must have smelled okay during the run or I wouldn't have gone that deep. There might be some good stuff there. But that's a maybe.

[6 Row Joe]

Exactly!

[Bradster68]

Well I just did my first all grain 'all feints run. Saved everything from my whiskey and bourbon runs. It smelled amazing the whole way through. First part tasted soapy. Hearts not too bad. Most was around 80% through the whole run on my pot. Imma save a small Hearts collection on oak and see what happens. But I think next time imma use it for a neutral like most of my research suggested.
Just throwing it out there for everyone to know my results.

[Deplorable]

I still have a jar of my first AG feints pot still run on oak. I don't recall when I ran it, but the last time I tasted it I was underwhelmed. Cut be novice cuts, but it's just meh. All my feints get blended in a keg and made into vodka.

[Bradster68]

I still have a jar of my first AG feints pot still run on oak. I don't recall when I ran it, but the last time I tasted it I was underwhelmed. Cut be novice cuts, but it's just meh. All my feints get blended in a keg and made into vodka.

Yeah I guess the verdict is out but hey never hurts to try

Edit. I should add all run through my pot also

[Deplorable]

I have 5 gallons of feints collected over the last 18 months or so to reflux once our summer schedule slows down. I'll dilute that with water to fill my 13 gallon boiler and collect a couple of gallons of 95% and some strong solvent for the work bench. Refluxed feints stretches the most out of your ferments in my opinion.

[Bradster68]

I have 5 gallons of feints collected over the last 18 months or so to reflux once our summer schedule slows down. I'll dilute that with water to fill my 13 gallon boiler and collect a couple of gallons of 95% and some strong solvent for the work bench. Refluxed feints stretches the most out of your ferments in my opinion.

Good to know. My next run of feints I'll be giving that a try.

[rubberduck71]

I had some corny kegs with separated "types" of feints in them: neutral, whiskies, and tequila.

For some reason, I had a keg dedicated to ryes (both sugarheads & all grains). I ran a 4L batch through my Airstill, and after 6 months on an oak spiral, I gotta say, it was some of the nicest product to date.

Your mileage may vary, but definitely worth a trial if you have the storage space/patience!

Duck

[MooseMan]

I save my heads and tails in a container until I have enough for a full reflux run. I make a neutral that I then use as a base for other things (gin, liqueurs, infusions etc).

A rough sketch of my recovery process:

- Dilute the boiler charge to 30% and raise pH to 9. This helps to clean up some of the congeners, taking a portion of the heavy lifting away from the distillation process
- The product output is 96% ABV
- The first 25%-ish of the run is where the hearts often emerge. This does vary depending on how mismatched my feints were. I'll start paying attention to the output at about the 20% mark, and things get good around the 25-30% mark
- That first cut becomes fire starter, window cleaner and sticky label remover
- Hearts will run until about 70% of the total potential alcohol is collected. Again, as the quality of my feints varies from run to run, I may get to 80% of the potential yield before tails come in
- The switch into tails is abrupt and nasty. At this point I shut down and savour my hearts bucket of reclaimed ethanol
- Lower pH of stillage for disposal

This is a great process overview Ren.

Can I please ask, a couple of things that I'd like to understand?
How did you come to get pH9 as a number to raise the charge to?
What is your understanding of what the pH raise is doing, chemically?
And what do you use to raise it?

You may or may not have read my comments in another recent thread regarding pH but I'm reading everything I can find and gathering all the information I can on it as I'm increasingly coming to the opinion that it's really important.

[Bradster68]

I had some corny kegs with separated "types" of feints in them: neutral, whiskies, and tequila.

For some reason, I had a keg dedicated to ryes (both sugarheads & all grains). I ran a 4L batch through my Airstill, and after 6 months on an oak spiral, I gotta say, it was some of the nicest product to date.

Your mileage may vary, but definitely worth a trial if you have the storage space/patience!

Duck

I'll be tucking the hearts away in a corner. But the rest I'll use as a neutral. I guess only time will tell

[Bolverk]

Fores are cut on the spirit run, but otherwise all feints get recycled into the next batch (i only make rum). Although I have been starting to experiment with adding heads, high tails, low tails into thumper/retorts like in the Caribbean process.

[rubberduck71]

Fores are cut on the spirit run, but otherwise all feints get recycled into the next batch (i only make rum). Although I have been starting to experiment with adding heads, high tails, low tails into thumper/retorts like in the Caribbean process.

Check out this thread: viewtopic.php?t=89605

[Renhoekk]

This is a great process overview Ren.

Can I please ask, a couple of things that I'd like to understand?
How did you come to get pH9 as a number to raise the charge to?
What is your understanding of what the pH raise is doing, chemically?
And what do you use to raise it?

You may or may not have read my comments in another recent thread regarding pH but I'm reading everything I can find and gathering all the information I can on it as I'm increasingly coming to the opinion that it's really important.

Thanks Mooseman. In quick and loose terms, raising the pH removes esters. It causes the ester compound to break apart, freeing the ethanol molecule and basically turning the remaining junk into salt. If you’d like an in-depth explanation, Google “alkaline ester hydrolysis”.

I use sodium hydroxide, because it’s a strong base and it doesn’t take much of it to raise the pH significantly. Baking soda also works but you need a lot more of it.

Edit: playing around with strong bases also means paying attention to safety and using gloves, eye pro etc. You will also need to neutralise the leftover stillage prior to disposal. I use citric acid.

[MooseMan]

This is a great process overview Ren.

Can I please ask, a couple of things that I'd like to understand?
How did you come to get pH9 as a number to raise the charge to?
What is your understanding of what the pH raise is doing, chemically?
And what do you use to raise it?

You may or may not have read my comments in another recent thread regarding pH but I'm reading everything I can find and gathering all the information I can on it as I'm increasingly coming to the opinion that it's really important.

Thanks Mooseman. In quick and loose terms, raising the pH removes esters. It causes the ester compound to break apart, freeing the ethanol molecule and basically turning the remaining junk into salt. If you’d like an in-depth explanation, Google “alkaline ester hydrolysis”.

I use sodium hydroxide, because it’s a strong base and it doesn’t take much of it to raise the pH significantly. Baking soda also works but you need a lot more of it

May I PM you when I get some time to do so, please?

[Renhoekk]

May I PM you when I get some time to do so, please?

Sure mate

[MooseMan]

Did a run today consisting of a YLAY wash that was well overdue to run, with approx 4gal of mixed cereal run feints added, and remembered this thread to I hunted it down.

So I suppose what I did today is called a Queens 1.5?

Anyway, I ended up with 1 gal of feints which will be added to my stock for the next reflux run.

The hearts came through surprisingly clean, and the very centre hearts was really nice, grainy, sweet and great mouth feel. I took out the very cleanest middle jars (c. 140 proof) and combined them into a half gallon jug to keep for white dog.

The rest I'll blend tomorrow, but apart from the first couple jars being possibly a little heady, it should all be keepers.
Running pretty slow I was able to run right down to 90 proof before tails became obvious.

All in all, I'm super pleased with what I got out of this run, and still got another gallon of reflux fodder.