No fermentation. What happened?

[TippMan]

Hello All
I hope that someone can help me. I made a whiskey mash the other day but fermentation didn't start yet.
The recipe was 10kg HDP Barley
4k kg sugar
3kg porridge oats

I've made this recipe a few times without incident.
Mashed in the barley and oats to say 65 deg C water.
Aerated well with a drill and plaster mixer attachment
Left to settle for an hour or so.
Sparged and added 4kg sugar.

Cooled to 25 deg C and pitched 5 - 6 teaspoons of ale yeast. SG was 1.007

Next day there was a huge yeasty head on the mash but no co2 production. (I could breath normally with my face in the drum) I gave the mix a gentle swirl and discovered that there was a yeasty carpet on the bottom of the drum also which swirled up.

i thought that I had perhaps upset the yeast with a too high SG so added approx 10l water last night.

Today the yeasty head is still there but still no fermentation. Gravity is now 1.05.
It smells fine.

Any pointers would be most welcome.

[Wildcats]

Might be a pH issue. Someone with more experience will be able to help you better. Make sure to use the right term to describe what you're talking about. When using sugar and grains... It's called a wash..

[Saltbush Bill]

If there is a head on it then it's working I would think.
Listen to it, can you hear it fizzing?
Are you basing your assumption that its not fermenting on a lack of bubbles from an airlock?

[TippMan]

No fizzing I'm afraid.
It's in a blue plastic 100l barrel with the lid resting on top, propped a few mm to allow gas out - I'm not using an airlock. The reason I think that it's not fermenting is because I'm not seeing that fizz on the surface and also when I put my face in the barrel I don't get that hit of CO2 you get when you put your face too close to a fermenting mix.

[Setsumi]

1.007 to start and days later 1.05. Me thinks you are not observing propper?

Go back to your notes. If it was 1.07 to start and you added 10l of water to end at 1.05 a day later you prolly do not have fermentation.

I still think your observations is wrong.

[jonnys_spirit]

If you listen with your ear close to the liquid do you hear it sizzle and pop very quietly? Fermentation can be fairly "inactive" or more "active" - just depends on many factors. A couple things you want to watch for are the sound, an SG reading that continues to drop each day, there may or may not be much of a foamy head but if there are grains you will typically see them for a cap as the CO2 floats them up to the top. If you gently mix that cap down into the liquid it should resurface in an hour or two - certainly by the next day... Once the ferment is near completion the cap will "drop" and not reform as much and the sound of the ferment will also subside... A good rule of thumb is three days without an SG change is also an indicator that the ferment has stopped... Temp, pH, gravity, and nutrients all play into a healthy ferment

Cheers,
j

[Twisted Brick]

A good rule of thumb is three days without an SG change is also an indicator that the ferment has stopped... Temp, pH, gravity, and nutrients all play into a healthy ferment

+1

Yeast go through a series of phases starting with a lag phase where very little activity is evident. Also, the volume and condition of the yeast you pitch has an effect on it's ability to do its job efficiently. (Yeast starters are very good at this). Yeast require oxygen to grow and aerating your converted wash just prior to pitching yeast is vitally important.

[TippMan]

Hello All. OP here.
An update - fermentation took off on day 3 or 4. Normal fizzing etc. I appears to have subsided at this stage. I checked it this morning and it's at 1.015 so I'll leave it till next weekend to do a stripping runs.
It's still a bit milky looking as opposed to watery but never mind. We'll see how it distills out.

Thanks to all for your opinions and advice. A lot of your comments boiled down to "hold your nerve" which will be my takeaway here.

[still_stirrin]

Hello All. OP here.
An update - fermentation took off on day 3 or 4. Normal fizzing etc. I(t) appears to have subsided at this stage. I checked it this morning and it's at 1.015 so I'll leave it till next weekend to do a stripping runs. <— Waiting another week will let it continue to reduce the sugars remaining. Since most have been consumed, yeast activity slows considerably as the population decreases (flocculation).

It's still a bit milky looking as opposed to watery but never mind. We'll see how it distills out. <— Also, waiting a couple of weeks will allow more of the yeast to flocculate and settle. The cloudiness you see is yeast still in suspension. As they run out of sugars, they’ll “clump together” and settle to the bottom of the fermenter.

Thanks to all for your opinions and advice. A lot of your comments boiled down to "hold your nerve" which will be my takeaway here. <— What? You mean you have little patience? That’s “the HARDEST thing to put into a bottle”.

A first ferment, like the first run of your still can be “unnerving” because you don’t know what’s happening when; you can read about it, but you just don’t have “hands on” experience. So, those “firsts” feel like “uncharted territory”. But everybody has had those “first times” too, so you’re in lots of company.

Hang in there and follow your instincts and soon it’ll be history. And the best part: you’ll have a few bottles of “reward” to set on your shelf. And then, you can look back (at your first time) and relish the experience you’ve gained.
ss

[TippMan]

Hello All. OP here.
An update - fermentation took off on day 3 or 4. Normal fizzing etc. I(t) appears to have subsided at this stage. I checked it this morning and it's at 1.015 so I'll leave it till next weekend to do a stripping runs. <— Waiting another week will let it continue to reduce the sugars remaining. Since most have been consumed, yeast activity slows considerably as the population decreases (flocculation).

It's still a bit milky looking as opposed to watery but never mind. We'll see how it distills out. <— Also, waiting a couple of weeks will allow more of the yeast to flocculate and settle. The cloudiness you see is yeast still in suspension. As they run out of sugars, they’ll “clump together” and settle to the bottom of the fermenter.

Thanks to all for your opinions and advice. A lot of your comments boiled down to "hold your nerve" which will be my takeaway here. <— What? You mean you have little patience? That’s “the HARDEST thing to put into a bottle”.

A first ferment, like the first run of your still can be “unnerving” because you don’t know what’s happening when; you can read about it, but you just don’t have “hands on” experience. So, those “firsts” feel like “uncharted territory”. But everybody has had those “first times” too, so you’re in lots of company.

Hang in there and follow your instincts and soon it’ll be history. And the best part: you’ll have a few bottles of “reward” to set on your shelf. And then, you can look back (at your first time) and relish the experience you’ve gained.
ss

Thanks for the words of encouragement. Every day is a school day.

[Demy]

1.007 to start and days later 1.05. Me thinks you are not observing propper?

Go back to your notes. If it was 1.07 to start and you added 10l of water to end at 1.05 a day later you prolly do not have fermentation.

I still think your observations is wrong.

That's what I was thinking....maybe typo