New pot and thumper, second run issues

[Stags]

Hey y’all. Took delivery of a new still a week ago. Had an interesting experience with it so far, figured I would share some experiences/ self critique and maybe get some advice while I’m killing time at work waiting for a report to come in.

Still was made by a local ish to me builder. Based on what I can perceive they did a way better job than I ever could. Traditional 10 gallon pot, 5 gallon thumper and worm. All copper except for tri clamps. 1.5” piping, .5” worm coil. 4kw electric power from 2 2kw elements.

Vinegar run and sacrificial cleaning run went according to plan, running the still at full power and no liquid in the thumper. Barely had to run a trickle through the worm, knocked down all 4kw with ease during the sac run.

First run was a 5 gallon Panela rum wash. Only ran 2kw to avoid potentially having an exposed element. Came out a little rough due to using cinnamon peach brandy tails to charge the thumper. I have no doubt after a few months on oak that will turn into a nice spiced rum.

This is where things get interesting. Second run was 10 gallons or so of UJSM. Took an ending gravity reading, was close but not entirely done, slight sweet taste to the wash. I figured hell I’ll just run it because sometimes it does that and it usually comes out fine. Charged 1.5-2 gallons in the thump and rest in primary. In my defense I was also kicking this off a wee bit later than I usually would so I cranked up all 4kw. First indication that anything was awry was a long heat up. Followed by motion in the thumper sight glass. I was perplexed it was full and foaming. Primary boiler sight glass indicated foam up into the cap. And then the thumper puked into the worm.

In my somewhat limited experience once you get puke into the worm it’s contaminated until it’s washed. So I shut it down, vented 3 gallons of fluid from the thumper, added it back to the primary, and restarted. Finished the run as a very cloudy stripping run to mix in with the next gen wash.

My takeaways:

1. Probably ok to initially warm the wash with 4kw but should reduce to 2kw once wash hits 160 degrees or so to allow the thumper to warm up gradually
2. 1 gallon max in the thump going forward
3. Going to use fermcap from here on out
4. Will be a little more religious about getting to ~1.00 ending gravity in the future since I’ve read here leftover sugar foams like hell
5. My parasitic heat losses outside the primary boiler are hellacious

My question for the master distillers- what do you think caused the thumper to overflow? Excessive heat in the primary and not allowing the thumper to warm gradually on lower power? Could enough liquid have been transferred as foam to cause the overflow? A combination of both? I’m torn.

Other feedback/ advice always welcomed!

[jonnys_spirit]

My comment is that on a strip run a little puke is ok as long as you then get it under control. Spirit run will clean it up

I don't use a thumper so not sure about charge volume but if it was puking into the thumper it could certainly have excessively filled it up.

You should be able to run a strip as hard and fast as your condenser can handle. If it pukes you need to back it down for a bit and slowly increase power and ride it like you stole it..

Cheers!
-j

[Bolverk]

I'd run the thumper with as little initial charge as you can, just enough to cover the inlet.

Here's the parent site thumper calculator if you want to play with some different volumes
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/htm/calc ... umper.html

[Stags]

My comment is that on a strip run a little puke is ok as long as you then get it under control. Spirit run will clean it up

I wasn’t trying to run a strip… was trying for a one and done to compare that product to the vevor Chinese pos I did the same on. But when it puked decided to change gears

[Stags]

I'd run the thumper with as little initial charge as you can, just enough to cover the inlet.

Here's the parent site thumper calculator if you want to play with some different volumes
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/htm/calc ... umper.html

I played with the calc a whole bunch to specify the still build. By the calcs logic heat up times should be a third of what they are. My only thought is I must be getting absolutely massive parasitic heat loss. I couldn’t get the calc to overfill the thump

[Bolverk]

I played with the calc a whole bunch to specify the still build. By the calcs logic heat up times should be a third of what they are. My only thought is I must be getting absolutely massive parasitic heat loss. I couldn’t get the calc to overfill the thump

Weird, my experiences closely matched the thumper calculator

Did you insulate the keg or lines at all? If not I'd assume you're right.

[Stags]

I played with the calc a whole bunch to specify the still build. By the calcs logic heat up times should be a third of what they are. My only thought is I must be getting absolutely massive parasitic heat loss. I couldn’t get the calc to overfill the thump

Weird, my experiences closely matched the thumper calculator

Did you insulate the keg or lines at all? If not I'd assume you're right.

Negative. I struggle in my heart to insulate a copper beauty

[Yonder]

So my regimen is an 80 % more or less boiler charge, 1/3 thump charge (usually with old feints watered down 50/50. Run like a sumbitch til the first drop of fores then throttle back to 3/4 amperage. Monitoring the output to get a steady pencil lead stream adding or subtracting power as needed for consistent flow. When I hit about 35 % at the spigot I crank it up to full again down to the 20’s. Nice consistency on the runs, easy to make cuts, plenty of feints for next time.

[NZChris]

Because you didn't let it ferment to dry, overfilled the pot, didn't use any butter/whatever for anti-foam and used full power, a puke was highly likely.

I also notice that you called it UJSM, which is a clue that you might not be using the original recipe and method. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=725

Do you have a power controller on one element? If not, you should get one.

[Saltbush Bill]

Second run was 10 gallons or so of UJSM. Took an ending gravity reading, was close but not entirely done, slight sweet taste to the wash. I figured hell I’ll just run it because sometimes it does that and it usually comes out fine.

It never does that if you leave it be and let it finish fermenting.
Or more correctly it might do that if you have used to much backset which in turn stalls the ferment.
Crux is you need to learn to use less backset and let it finish, learn to use your taste buds and trust them......if its dry n sour its done......any hint of sweetness , leave it in the fermeter

Because you didn't let it ferment to dry, overfilled the pot, didn't use any butter/

Ive never used butter or any other type of surfactant when stripping UJ, Ive had one or two very minor pukes in many many runs, the problems are
1: not fermented to fully dry.
2: too greedy on filling boiler.
I guess if you get those two wrong then butter might help.

[Stags]

Because you didn't let it ferment to dry, overfilled the pot, didn't use any butter/whatever for anti-foam and used full power, a puke was highly likely.

I also notice that you called it UJSM, which is a clue that you might not be using the original recipe and method. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=725

Do you have a power controller on one element? If not, you should get one.

I’ve seen the recipe referred to as a lot of different acronyms. I’ve read that whole thread and never had a problem until this last gen (7). Learning lesson to be sure

[Stags]

Second run was 10 gallons or so of UJSM. Took an ending gravity reading, was close but not entirely done, slight sweet taste to the wash. I figured hell I’ll just run it because sometimes it does that and it usually comes out fine.

It never does that if you leave it be and let it finish fermenting.
Or more correctly it might do that if you have used to much backset which in turn stalls the ferment.
Crux is you need to learn to use less backset and let it finish, learn to use your taste buds and trust them......if its dry n sour its done......any hint of sweetness , leave it in the fermeter

Because you didn't let it ferment to dry, overfilled the pot, didn't use any butter/

Ive never used butter or any other type of surfactant when stripping UJ, Ive had one or two very minor pukes in many many runs, the problems are
1: not fermented to fully dry.
2: too greedy on filling boiler.
I guess if you get those two wrong then butter might help.

I don’t think the boiler charge was the issue- I probably had 8 gallons in a 10 gallon pot. And in my configuration there’s probably 18” from the crown of the pot/ 10 gallon mark and the lyne arm

I will say this batch had been sitting almost two weeks after I observed ebullition stopped because I had to go to a fam wedding last weekend. PH was nominal at 5, temp has been nominal, so I don’t know what would have stalled it. No observable infection.

Question- how much backset are you using? I’ve been using 1 gallon of backset for 6 gallons wash made in a 7 gallon bucket.

[jonnys_spirit]

8g in a 10g pot is 80% capacity so that should be adequate headspace to manage foaming. I have noticed that when it does start foaming it runs away pretty easily and you do need to actively watch and manage power.

I use EVOO as a surfactant which helps with foaming and I find that if I run for a bit at reduced power I can then creep the power back up to full power before too long. I do use a fairly tall 3" riser and a helmet with a sight glass on top of that too for additional headspace and visibility.

Sugars left behind will increase foaming so in that case you might need to run with lower power to manage it. Might be better to do one strip and top up with fermented wash than a one and done?

Cheers,
jonny

[Stags]

8g in a 10g pot is 80% capacity so that should be adequate headspace to manage foaming. I have noticed that when it does start foaming it runs away pretty easily and you do need to actively watch and manage power.

I use EVOO as a surfactant which helps with foaming and I find that if I run for a bit at reduced power I can then creep the power back up to full power before too long. I do use a fairly tall 3" riser and a helmet with a sight glass on top of that too for additional headspace and visibility.

Sugars left behind will increase foaming so in that case you might need to run with lower power to manage it. Might be better to do one strip and top up with fermented wash than a one and done?

Cheers,
jonny

Some variation of this is in the future plans. Historically I’ve gotten adequate proof and good taste from 1.5x through the thumper but it’s time consuming and doesn’t generate enough product for my needs. I’ve also been constrained by fermenting in 2x 7 gallon buckets to make 10 gallons of wash. But I have a 55 gallon drum getting delivered today to take over my UJ fermentation duties

[Stags]

Pic of the rig for reference

[NZChris]

Because you didn't let it ferment to dry, overfilled the pot, didn't use any butter/

Ive never used butter or any other type of surfactant when stripping UJ, Ive had one or two very minor pukes in many many runs, the problems are
1: not fermented to fully dry.
2: too greedy on filling boiler.
I guess if you get those two wrong then butter might help.

It's a tool that is available for if you want to push the takeoff rate beyond the normal capabilities of the still for that type of wash for some reason. If it adds any flavor at all, which I doubt, it's butter, which is a match with corn.