Q for Electric Keg Users

[evilpsych]

As I now have acquired a 15g keg, (and a pony) and also located a stainless welder who will do it for free for me, I pose the following question to you electric keg users.

If you had to do it over, what would you change about your electric keg? Be it position of the fittings, addition of new ones, or otherwise? Would you cut the top off? Leave the original 2" sankey fitting? Weld a larger ferrule?

I have plans for at *least* the following: 3 1"NPT half-couplings - 2 at the bottom (one drain, one for 1500w element) and one about halfway or 1/3rd of the way up from the bottom for the 3rd coupling for my 4500w element. I've seen a 'refill' cap on one unit, would that be a welcome addition?

[HookLine]

DEFINITELY put a refill port on the top of the keg. Not doing so was the big mistake I made when I made my boiler.

I wouldn't modify the opening. Leave the standard Sankey fitting and use Tri-clover clamps to attach the column. If you are running a column larger than 2", just use reducers on the bottom of it to bring it down to 2".

[Hawke]

I don't use electric, but I would keep both elements down low, there are times you are not going to have a full charge and still want to use both elements.

[evilpsych]

14AM7-20 2" Ferrule (Long Weld) (1) @ $7.75 - for the refill port
16AMP-20 2" Solid End Cap (2) @ $4.75 - for covering both the refill port and sankey fitting
13MHHM-20 2" Tri-Clamp (2) @ $8.75 - attaching above...
102-10 1" NPT Half Coupling (4) @ $2.99 - 2 for heater elements, one for drain, one extra for the pony keg i'm contemplating using as a catch vessel..
Current Total Order $46.71 before S&H

What drain would be acceptable for use on a boiler? I usually only pot-still currently... I've seen a mix of types on here. I'm either gonna go 1"npt thread on the drain, or 1" triclamp sanitary fitting.

[HookLine]

2" might be overkill for the refill port, 1" would be plenty, but at the low price you're paying for the fittings it probably don't matter.

I used 1" half sockets for the heater element and the drain, on opposite sides of the keg. The drain port goes into a 3/4" stainless ball valve with a brass click on hose fitting screwed onto the output side.

Worth getting a drain valve with a safety locking tab on it so when you accidentally bump the valve handle during a run the hot shit inside the boiler don't come gushing out and wreck your day.

[punkin]

Or cut the handle off short.

You can use a nipple or socket with a thread at the top too for your fill port and then just screw a ball valve into it. Easier to seal and plated valves are cheap.

If welding was free, i would definately use a Copamate flange to mount your column.
PlasmaCut a 4" hole and get 4 stainless studs welded to the top of the keg, then mount the copamate. Just screws down tight with no probs. Gasket material of your choice, most here would recommend flour and water.

[evilpsych]

Or cut the handle off short.

You can use a nipple or socket with a thread at the top too for your fill port and then just screw a ball valve into it. Easier to seal and plated valves are cheap.

If welding was free, i would definately use a Copamate flange to mount your column.
PlasmaCut a 4" hole and get 4 stainless studs welded to the top of the keg, then mount the copamate. Just screws down tight with no probs. Gasket material of your choice, most here would recommend flour and water.

Interesting on the copamate flange.. I think i'm gonna try to keep it tri-clamp.. and do a copper attachment like on the scotch-sankey still recently posted.

[evilpsych]

2" might be overkill for the refill port, 1" would be plenty, but at the low price you're paying for the fittings it probably don't matter.

I used 1" half sockets for the heater element and the drain, on opposite sides of the keg. The drain port goes into a 3/4" stainless ball valve with a brass click on hose fitting screwed onto the output side.

Worth getting a drain valve with a safety locking tab on it so when you accidentally bump the valve handle during a run the hot shit inside the boiler don't come gushing out and wreck your day.

i like the 2" size to keep it consistent with the other port. I'm concocting a way perhaps in teh future to have both a refulx and a pot still column attached, or a steam nozzle for use in a double boiler idea i'm still kicking around. Having a refill port just helps this idea out.

[punkin]

I have a 3/4 ball vlave on my drain, it works just fine.

[maoule]

Install your refill port with as much angle as is feasible then you'll have a nice potstill slope. If you can, have all your male connections pointing down.

[mikeac]

I have two elements at the bottom of my keg, I'd definitly not move one up, that way I can do smaller runs.

I have no drain... I'd definitly add a drain....

I'd probably weld a larger furrel in the top (given a bigger budget ) wide enough I could get my hand in if I wanted to...

Other then that I think they're sweet!

[HookLine]

When I said I wouldn't modify the opening, of course that means you will not have access to the inside of the boiler for cleaning. So you need to make sure the solids are removed from the wash before putting it in the still. (Though IIRC some here don't even do that, and they don't seem to have much trouble.)

Confused yet?

[evilpsych]

When I said I wouldn't modify the opening, of course that means you will not have access to the inside of the boiler for cleaning. So you need to make sure the solids are removed from the wash before putting it in the still. (Though IIRC some here don't even do that, and they don't seem to have much trouble.)

Confused yet?

Meh. I've stopped trying to be confused by all teh myriad of ways to do something with regards to stilling now.. I was planning on settling and siphoning/filtering each wash anyway how homebrewers do it to keep from scorched tastes in the finished stuff. makes simple power washing out through the existing holes that much simpler. I haven't noticed a significant flavor difference the few times i've distilled with some grain/trub in the boiler, but i dont want to run the risk with the heating elements.

ON the heating elements.. Is there danger of burning each other out if they're too close together? or interference of some sort? I was figuring on positioning such that they had at least 2" of gap between them.

[maoule]

I have plans for at *least* the following: 3 1"NPT half-couplings - 2 at the bottom (one drain, one for 1500w element) and one about halfway or 1/3rd of the way up from the bottom for the 3rd coupling for my 4500w element. I've seen a 'refill' cap on one unit, would that be a welcome addition?

I reread this and your most recent post... I would keep both elements as close to the bottom as possible. I just looked at mine: I put one element socket as far down as possible and the other ~1" higher and 90 degrees away. Even if I had put them the same height, there would be 1 1/2" clearance. My elements are a 2000w/120v, ~8" long and a 5500w/240v, ~12" long, stainless low density. Things heat up fast when both are going together The chromalox variety of elements are bendable, so if you think things are getting too close, stick a pole down in there and bend it a little. I just use my 120v element for the extra speed in heat-up.

[evilpsych]

that's a pretty trick controller you have on there.

That leads me to another question... 240 on both elements? or 240/120.. controller on the 120v or on the 240v.which gives you finer control?

[maoule]

that's a pretty trick controller you have on there.

That leads me to another question... 240 on both elements? or 240/120.. controller on the 120v or on the 240v.which gives you finer control?

No, 240 for the 5500w and 120 for the 2000w; the 5500w pulls 23 amps wide open and my biggest 240v breaker is 30A. The 240v controller has infinite adjustment between 0-240 volts, so I prefer the higher top end available from the 5500w element. Just a performance note: when I strip a 6-7 gal. wash and start both elements as soon as I charge the still, I don't have a lot of time to get the head and/or column and condenser together. It gets to temp. quick

[squidd]

[quote="HookLine"]DEFINITELY put a refill port on the top of the keg. Not doing so was the big mistake I made when I made my boiler.

Instead of cutting another hole in the top, would it be acceptable to install a wye at the bottom of the column?

Thanks.

[evilpsych]

DEFINITELY put a refill port on the top of the keg. Not doing so was the big mistake I made when I made my boiler.

Instead of cutting another hole in the top, would it be acceptable to install a wye at the bottom of the column?

Thanks.

now that's using your noggin - although the guys in favor of easier cleanout might disagree.. man.. i was all souped up thinkin about geting a 4" ferrule and a piece of 4" borosilicate ground for a view port.. now the cheapass in me has me thinkin.. a y would be cheaper..

[evilpsych]

that's a pretty trick controller you have on there.

That leads me to another question... 240 on both elements? or 240/120.. controller on the 120v or on the 240v.which gives you finer control?

No, 240 for the 5500w and 120 for the 2000w; the 5500w pulls 23 amps wide open and my biggest 240v breaker is 30A. The 240v controller has infinite adjustment between 0-240 volts, so I prefer the higher top end available from the 5500w element. Just a performance note: when I strip a 6-7 gal. wash and start both elements as soon as I charge the still, I don't have a lot of time to get the head and/or column and condenser together. It gets to temp. quick

actualy.. i meant that more as a question about the setup in general.. i.e. better for say... 2 3kw elements in 240, or a mix of 240/120. my bro-in-law is an electrician whos' gonna wire me up anyway so it doesnt matter one way or the other. i think i'm limited to 30amps on teh circuit i'm planning on using tho

[HookLine]

DEFINITELY put a refill port on the top of the keg. Not doing so was the big mistake I made when I made my boiler.

Instead of cutting another hole in the top, would it be acceptable to install a wye at the bottom of the column?

Thanks.

Can't see why not. I was thinking about doing the same on my copper pot column for stripping runs. Though if I was doing my boiler again I would still prefer the extra port on the top.

[evilpsych]

Well.. i got my 4500w(@240v) element today.. something called 'amalloy' I saved the receipt but it was too good to pass up I'll research it on the net shortly.. .. total length is about.. 42", so just a hair over 100watts per inch low density i suppose..... I also picked up a 2"x1" reducer for the topcap on my keg.

[eternalfrost]

i have a really simple 'no-weld' element on my 15 keg and i love it.

i supose having a draining and refill valves would be nice but honestly i could never see myself using them...
15 gallons is just so big to begin with. my setup works as four 2-hour striping runs off a 55 gallon fermenter then one combined spirit run that takes pretty much all day long. i cant imagine ever wanting to do MORE then that.

on the stripping runs i guess it would shave some minutes off but for me its not worth the extra work and money to save less then a hour off a 50 hour process...


for sure keep the normal top works like a charm...bulletproof

[evilpsych]

made this sankey adapter today.. took awhile.. bu after cleaning it up i think it'll do.

[eternalfrost]

youll need to make sure the flange has a triangle shape to it. that is the key to the design...

the tri-clamp simply squeezes in towards the center, you should have a triangle shape to transfer that into a downwards direction to make the seal. the way yours is mostly flat will for sure hold the two pieces together, but very likely wont make an air-tight seal. also, you will need to file down all that gloopy solder and uneven profile...

most clamps will have a triangular profile inside if you look close, with real sanitary fittings, the flange matches into this profile.
I work with them alot at my job for vacuum chambers...

check out the thread called "super sankey scotch still" theres a nice write up on making a quality one, thats the way i made mine

[evilpsych]

youll need to make sure the flange has a triangle shape to it. that is the key to the design...

the tri-clamp simply squeezes in towards the center, you should have a triangle shape to transfer that into a downwards direction to make the seal. the way yours is mostly flat will for sure hold the two pieces together, but very likely wont make an air-tight seal. also, you will need to file down all that gloopy solder and uneven profile...

most clamps will have a triangular profile inside if you look close, with real sanitary fittings, the flange matches into this profile.
I work with them alot at my job for vacuum chambers...

check out the thread called "super sankey scotch still" theres a nice write up on making a quality one, thats the way i made mine

Yah. if you look closely at the side shot, there's that little wedge shape. I still have to grind it down to the proper diameter and when i do so, it will have the proper angle.

[Buckeye]

I've got a element question. I just picked up a couple 120v elements and both of them have just over an inch of plastic near where they meet up with the base.
I am guessing that the plastic is there to prevent scale build up in its intended application?

[Bruster]

New question... I'm using a 8 gallon keg. If I run a 5 gal batch, even with my heater as low as possible in the keg, it still takes 2.5 gal or so to cover the heater proper. Can water be added to the wash so I'm sure my heater doesn't get un covered during a run?

[Prairiepiss]

Talk about rise of the dead threads. LOL

Yes you can add water. But remember this will also dilution the ABV. So the ABV out will also be lower. Not sure what kind of still you have. If its a pot still. You can use the vapor temp relation charts to guesstimate what you will get.

And adding water will also dilute the taste you get out.

[Bruster]

I'm building a 5 plate flute. Just wondered how that would work out.

[Prairiepiss]

Your building a 5 plate flute. You probably will need a bigger boiler. It will shoot through the 5 gal awfully quick. You wouldn't see much difference in the ABV out. But that still will hold a good amount if liquid up in it. So on a boiler that small by the time the still column is full. The boiler would be pretty low. So even if you add more water to the boiler. You are still pushing it to keep your element covered.

I would recommend at least a 15.5 gal keg for a 5 plate still.

An 8 gal boiler would be good for a pot still head or a 2" reflux column. But a larger plated column is pushing it.