Opinions on build plan

[WiAppleOak]

Hello y'all, I have been planning a still build for a bit and was hoping y'all could chime in with your opinions on my planned build. I am interested in making mostly whisky, rum, and brandy (neutral later, much later, separate column build). I want to get y’alls opinions before I commit to time and money to set this up.

After planning back and forth, the more affordable option for me now is to buy a 35 L Digiboil 110 V 1500 W vs getting a keg welded, the parts and time are looking to be almost double the cost to go with a keg (my spouse is understanding but has their limits).

Here is my column build plans, 2" copper to 3/4".



One main question I have is related to the bend at the top of the column, does it make sense to have the 90 elbow be 2"? or can I get away with transitioning to 3/4" before the elbow which would save a bit of money. I do not want to diminish vapor speed too much though.


Here is the condenser build, AIR COOLED! I was inspired by Masonjar, Just_Doug, Raketemench, and others. I don't have a water hookup in the place I can run the still in has no water hook up and I live in a very cold place and would like to continue to run into the winter.

I have about 180” (calculations say 15’ but its closer to 13’) of aluminum finned copper. Is that enough to cool the digiboil with the planned 2 box fans?



So sum up I have my main questions listed below:
1. is my “head” a decent build?
2. Could I get away with transitioning to 3/4” before the 90 degree elbow, or should I stick with the 2” 90 degree and then transition?
3. Is my condenser going to be able to knock down vapor coming from the planned boiler (digiboil 1500 W)?

Look forward to hearing your thoughts (if you have any questions please ask) and thanks.

[Steve Broady]

Just my $0.02 worth here:
If you can find a keg for cheap (takes some scrounging), then it’s neither a lot of time or money or work to pop a 1.5” TC ferrule low down in the side. No other modifications are needed, even though a larger port on the top sure would be convenient. I haven’t priced the Digiboil, but minimal DIY+scrounging can save you a lot of money.

Personally, I don’t think that 1500W is enough. I’m running a keg as described above, frequently with roughly 10 gallons in it, and a 5500W element. It does a great job stripping, but still takes a fair bit of time to heat up.

I don’t see that it matters too much where you make the transition to the smaller diameter. But if you make all the 2” connections triclamp, then you can always reconfigure in the future if you do find an issue.

With air cooling, I believe that a lot will depend on your ambient temperature and air flow. Those could make or break any design. I’m sure you’d be fine at 1500W, but if you upgrade to more heat you might run into limitations.

[Tōtōchtin]

With going 2" on your column you have to ask yourself what is your time worth. 2 runs a year it doesn't really matter. With a 3 inch column you could almost save enough time to watch a football game. I would look for a cheap keg you could grow into. This site might help you save enough to change your mind.
https://www.coppertubingsales.com/
Tōtō

[WiAppleOak]

Steve Broady, I cannot weld and I would want at least a 4" opening to be able to clean the inside. Costs were looking at $100 an hour for stainless welding from what I could find, which if it goes over 2 hours is the cost of the digibiol, not to mention the price of the connections. I am planning on making the 2 ends of the column tri-clamp-able. I'm planning on sticking to 5-7 gallon runs for speed, puking, as those are the size of my fermenters.

Totochtin, the price for the 3" pipe is more than the cost of the fittings, elbows, and pipe i have planned on sourcing so that is not very feasible at this time (In the future I am planning on upgrading to a 4"). Your point is heard though, originally I was thinking about making it all 3/4" but research turned me away from that.

Thank you both.

[Salt Must Flow]

Steve Broady, I cannot weld and I would want at least a 4" opening to be able to clean the inside. Costs were looking at $100 an hour for stainless welding from what I could find, which if it goes over 2 hours is the cost of the digibiol, not to mention the price of the connections. I am planning on making the 2 ends of the column tri-clamp-able. I'm planning on sticking to 5-7 gallon runs for speed, puking, as those are the size of my fermenters.

Totochtin, the price for the 3" pipe is more than the cost of the fittings, elbows, and pipe i have planned on sourcing so that is not very feasible at this time (In the future I am planning on upgrading to a 4"). Your point is heard though, originally I was thinking about making it all 3/4" but research turned me away from that.

Thank you both.

Go to a local welding supply store. They supply all the local welders. Ask them if they know of someone who TIG welds on the side. I was referred to a local guy who TIG welds whatever I bring for him, I don't even ask the price and I pay him when I pick up the parts. The reason I don't ask the price is because he is honest and so reasonable that the cost doesn't even matter. I cut the holes in my kegs myself. I let him do the welding and I do all of the final cleanup myself. If you expect them to cut the holes for you then they'll make you pay for it.

The vast majority of the work I do is done with an angle grinder and a right angle die grinder.

[Yummyrum]

Don’t use a digiboil . It had a PID temp controller . You need a Power controller for distilling . Digiboils are really only useful for mashing .

[Steve Broady]

I cannot weld and I would want at least a 4" opening to be able to clean the inside.

I’m using an (almost) unmodified keg, still with the 2” sanke fitting on the top. The only modification is a 1.5” TC port in the side where I insert the element. A good rinse is all the cleaning it ever needs or gets. I simply make sure that I don’t put anything solid in there.

You don’t need to weld. Stainless can be silver soldered with a torch, or even soft soldered if you’re careful and practice a bit.

I’m not trying to tell you what you should do, but since you asked for feedback, I figured I’d offer some options that light work out better in the long run.

[Saltbush Bill]

Don't waste your money buying things like a digiboil boiler if your trying to save money.
A beer keg on a cheap 3 ring gas burner is all that you need.
There is no need for a 4 inch opening at the top for cleaning.
The only cleaning needed is a squirt out with the garden hose.
Many of us have started out with this exact set up, it's only in relatively recent years that people have been adding all of the fancy blingy bits. No one in this hobby knew what a 4 inch ferule was 12 years or so ago.
Again, start out with a stock keg, modify as you grow in the hobby and time and money permit.
Edit, posting at same time as Steve.

[Setsumi]

Reduction in the vapour path will increase vapour spead in that part. I would go 2" 90*. After the reduction put a Liebig as product cooler.

[shadylane]

Just guessing, I played with a similar setup.
With a window fan, your aircooled condenser can knock down 3kw easily.

viewtopic.php?t=56652

[MooseMan]

I'll also offer my opinion since you've asked.

Get a keg!
You don't have to modify it at all if you don't want to. You can heat with gas.

If you really do want electric, it requires one hole in the side, this can be welded, silver soldered, or even, press cut so that it makes a flare and soft soldered.
You want more than 1500w. I run 2x 2000w+ in my keg, for example.

2" parts will clamp to the existing keg flange.
Throw a bit of insulation on and you have a really good still.
Go 2" all the way to the second 90 then reduce to your PC, ideally with a long, tapered reducer to eliminate pooling.

The air cooled PC will be great for low power spirit runs, I use one myself on my gin still.
But for stripping, you'll want more power and more condensing capability, so just build a simple, long Liebig for stripping.

Keep us updated on the way you go with this.

[WiAppleOak]

Just guessing, I played with a similar setup.
With a window fan, your aircooled condenser can knock down 3kw easily.

viewtopic.php?t=56652

I knew I was forgetting one, sorry shady, do you think my angles are fine to prevent smearing? I was going to get 2 box fans, will that be enough to knock down a 2 element keg set up? It looks like I might just have to go with a keg set up.

[WiAppleOak]

Reduction in the vapour path will increase vapour spead in that part. I would go 2" 90*. After the reduction put a Liebig as product cooler.

So keep the 2" 90. Honestly I do like that a bit. Don't want the water as I don't have a source for fresh and it would freeze in the winter, this is a garage set up. Unless you have a solution for keeping water from freezing without corroding the copper?

[WiAppleOak]

I'll also offer my opinion since you've asked.

Get a keg!
You don't have to modify it at all if you don't want to. You can heat with gas.

If you really do want electric, it requires one hole in the side, this can be welded, silver soldered, or even, press cut so that it makes a flare and soft soldered.
You want more than 1500w. I run 2x 2000w+ in my keg, for example.

2" parts will clamp to the existing keg flange.
Throw a bit of insulation on and you have a really good still.
Go 2" all the way to the second 90 then reduce to your PC, ideally with a long, tapered reducer to eliminate pooling.

The air cooled PC will be great for low power spirit runs, I use one myself on my gin still.
But for stripping, you'll want more power and more condensing capability, so just build a simple, long Liebig for stripping.

Keep us updated on the way you go with this.

I want it welded, less worry that way. So in lue of a 3/4" 45 near the copper union, you'd recommend 2 90's at offset angles to make sure pooling is minimal. So to reduce pooling I would want to make sure that the angle of my reducer off the 2nd 90 is below parallel to the ground correct? I really want minimal smearing.

[WiAppleOak]

Thanks to all. Your inputs have been heard and i'll be going the keg route, though it might be more expensive in the long run this is a hobby i have done before (built a stovetop still in college). One assumption I have with mounting the elements is as long as I mount them low enough I'll still be able to to run a smaller charge as long as the elements are covered correct?

[Homebrewer11777]

No welding keg with 3 TC ports: 4" on top, 2x 1.5" TC on bottom for elements. Drain (functional, you will want to add a TC elbow and a foot of hose to get it to work right). $200 + shipping brand new.

https://www.gwkent.com/15-gallon-semi-keg.html

[WiAppleOak]

Here are my sketches for a keg build. I do want electric (safety and supply), my brewing background makes me want to be able to reach down in there and scrub it clean. Thoughts?

[prattman92]

I agree with homebrewer. I just got that keg and it works great for me. I have a 55 gal barrel I use for a recirculating water cooled condenser. And it’s way too much water to freeze where I am. More than the first 1/2” anyway. And that just helps with knockdown at that point.

[Homebrewer11777]

4 inches is not really enough to reach down in there for much cleaning. That would really call for 6" port or bigger I think.

But with electric element heating you are going to be distilling relatively clear wash. No grains in the boiler, nothing goopy if you want to avoid scorching on your elements. Drain the boiler while it is hot and hose it out. The spent wash isn't sticky like it might be if you were dealing with actual beer or worse unfermented wort, it is pretty thin, acidic hoses right out. After a rinse I just turn mine upside down over a bucket to remove the last cup or so that the pickup style drain uses and let it dry that way.

[WiAppleOak]

I agree with homebrewer. I just got that keg and it works great for me. I have a 55 gal barrel I use for a recirculating water cooled condenser. And it’s way too much water to freeze where I am. More than the first 1/2” anyway. And that just helps with knockdown at that point.

I've had 18" plus freeze in a 55 gal barrel. Plus i'm more worried about the lines not being completely drained and ice expanding and cracking.

[WiAppleOak]

4 inches is not really enough to reach down in there for much cleaning. That would really call for 6" port or bigger I think.

But with electric element heating you are going to be distilling relatively clear wash. No grains in the boiler, nothing goopy if you want to avoid scorching on your elements. Drain the boiler while it is hot and hose it out. The spent wash isn't sticky like it might be if you were dealing with actual beer or worse unfermented wort, it is pretty thin, acidic hoses right out. After a rinse I just turn mine upside down over a bucket to remove the last cup or so that the pickup style drain uses and let it dry that way.

I am planning on running clear washes. The 4" gives a lot more than the standard, enough to get a sprayer in and move around plus I think my arms are small enough to fit inside.

[MooseMan]

I want it welded, less worry that way. So in lue of a 3/4" 45 near the copper union, you'd recommend 2 90's at offset angles to make sure pooling is minimal. So to reduce pooling I would want to make sure that the angle of my reducer off the 2nd 90 is below parallel to the ground correct? I really want minimal smearing.

Yeah 2x 90s on tri clamps will let you run at any angle you want, so it's ideal.
Just make sure the reducer from the second 90 to the PC is a cone, not stepped, and it'll have no problems.

That Kent keg the guys are suggesting really is a bargain you know, you can't really go wrong with that at all.

You don't have to "Reach in" to clean your boiler really.
Think about what is being done inside, you're cleaning it every time you run.
All it needs is a quick water flush after a run.

Your freezing water drum problem, by the way?
Lots of ways around that. Keep the surface moving, cover it with insulation, put a solar powered heater in it etc.
Hell, you could just let the top freeze around a pipe stuck in the middle and pump through that, as soon as you start running, it will do you a favour.

[prattman92]

Your freezing water drum problem, by the way?
Lots of ways around that. Keep the surface moving, cover it with insulation, put a solar powered heater in it etc.
Hell, you could just let the top freeze around a pipe stuck in the middle and pump through that, as soon as you start running, it will do you a favour.

Totally agree. A little aquarium heater left in there. Just drop all your hoses in there or take em out and keep them in a separate bucket. Tons of different solutions.

But if you’re dead set on the air cooled then you do you man. Just know if it isn’t as efficient as you want, there are other options.

[shadylane]

do you think my angles are fine to prevent smearing?

The angles will be fine, liquid only needs a little bit of downhill to flow.

[Setsumi]

Reduction in the vapour path will increase vapour spead in that part. I would go 2" 90*. After the reduction put a Liebig as product cooler.

So keep the 2" 90. Honestly I do like that a bit. Don't want the water as I don't have a source for fresh and it would freeze in the winter, this is a garage set up. Unless you have a solution for keeping water from freezing without corroding the copper?

The only sure way to protect a condenser or Liebig from freezing is to drain the water. The big issue for me is when your solder freezes. I am looking for a tiny pinhole on my shotgun and I live in a relative mild winter compared to some here.

[WiAppleOak]

Thanks for the ideas y'all, I really appreciate the advice. I managed to pick up 2 kegs for free, now I have to water test them, just fill them with water right?

The aquarium heater is an idea i'll have to look into. I supposed if I equip the liebig with a quick connects I could just modular it so I could bring it and the in and out.

Another thought is that If my air condenser doesn't work fully, I could join a liebig before or after it with unions. I feel like I'll proceed with the air cooled and see what happens with water and vinegar runs.