Recommendations: SSR + controller solution or replace PCB?

[Jaktpanda]

I've built a still based on a brewing boiler. It has two elements (700W + 1800W) and is controlled by a Guten Power 2.0 PID.

Unfortunately there's no way to regulate the power except very slow switching. This leads to surge boiling and makes the destillation take long and smear in my VM.

Now. I'm thinking that either I splice in a SSR + controller between the element wiring and mains and run the PID at 2.5kW and regulate manually. Or I find some way to completely replace the Guten Power PID with something using SSR or similar.

Any suggestions for an easy solution are greatly appreciated! (and links to Aliexpress controllers or whatnot appreciated as well – I'm a bit lost when it comes to this. Haven't done electronics for many years…)

[Yummyrum]

If you are still going to use the boiler as a mashing rig , you will probably want go keep the PID function .

If not , then just use an external power controller and bypass all the element wiring .

You could use an external controller such as a EZboil DSPR 220 or 400 from Auber . They also have aPID function fir mashing .

But you would have to find a way to control your pump at the right time .

In my mind , the best solution would be to have a change over switch in the base that switches the elements between the built in controller PCB and the external power lead , then you could run it as intended for brewing and switch to an external power controller for Distilling . That is what I would do .

[shadylane]

In my mind , the best solution would be to have a change over switch in the base that switches the elements between the built in controller PCB and the external power lead ,

That's what I was thinking also.

[MooseMan]

If it helps at all, I recently modded a UK water boiler for a friend, which is basically the same thing as that "Brewing" boiler.

All I did was rip the entire wiring out, then wire the main element direct to incoming mains.
He will then run it on a voltage controller.

Here's the thread.
viewtopic.php?t=92993
And the voltage controller is from AliExpress, there are hundreds to choose from, just get the highest wattage.

Edit: Just an example - https://a.aliexpress.com/_EH0v77r

[Yummyrum]

OPs boiler had two elements . So switching may be a little more tricky , but still easy done .

[Jaktpanda]

Thanks for the input y'all, much appreciated.

I'm leaning towards adding a switch to route power either to the original PID or a controller (I like the way the mashing programs work) and I'm thinking of using a SSR-VA + pot and hook the elements up in series. Should work, no? Here's an SSR I'm looking at (60A for good measure): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006953756276.html

Will need to add a heatsink to the relay, but other than that plus a way to switch between the setups.

(Reason I'm going with an open SSR is that I'd rather not have to add power to an arduino or whatever to control it.)

All I did was rip the entire wiring out, then wire the main element direct to incoming mains.
He will then run it on a voltage controller.

Here's the thread.
viewtopic.php?t=92993

Very nice writeup and build MouseMan!

[shadylane]

Hooked in parallel the two heaters draw 2500w. In series, only 500w.

[Jaktpanda]

Hooked in parallel the two heaters draw 2500w. In series, only 500w.

Ah right you are – I'd wire them in parallel from the SSR…

[Jaktpanda]

I had Perplexity.ai map the non-linear power effect of having one pot/ssr manage both heating elements. Thought it was nifty:

Pot Setting	Heater 1 (1800W)	Heater 2 (700W)	Total Output
10%	18.0W	6.1W	24.1W
20%	72.0W	27.1W	99.1W
30%	162.0W	62.1W	224.1W
40%	288.0W	111.1W	399.1W
50%	450.0W	175.0W	625.0W
60%	648.0W	251.1W	899.1W
70%	882.0W	343.0W	1225.0W
80%	1152.0W	447.1W	1599.1W
90%	1458.0W	567.0W	2025.0W
100%	1800.0W	700.0W	2500.0W

[Yummyrum]

That is why I use the Auber DSPR1 controller .

https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main ... cts_id=444

50% is 50% power , not 50% voltage .

[Yummyrum]

I had Perplexity.ai map the non-linear power effect of having one pot/ssr manage both heating elements. Thought it was nifty:

OK
It is nifty ….but ….

Iff’n you actually had a real pot/ssr in front of you , you would be smacking that AI thing around the head calling WTF .

So what brilliant AI had told you is that if you had a perfectly linear Pot that varied the voltage from 0-100 over the whole 270° that a pot travels , then you could expect the corresponding power increases .

But , in the real world of electronics , that is never going to happen .

Inside any phase controller is the external pot in series with a capacitor .As the capacitor charges , its voltage rises . When the voltage reaches the conduction breakdown voltage of the DIAC connected to it ( somewhere between 20-30volts depending in the exact DIAC ) a TRIAC will trigger conduction and switch the current to the element .

There are a lot of varables .
Due to manufacturing tolerances , Pots may be anywhere from 10-25% out .So the Pot may have significant “dead” ranges .
As the charging current is dependant on the mains supply voltage , any variations in local supply will effect the range of the Pot ….. so 100% on one day will be different to 100% on another day . ( and in full disclosure , this is also going to be a problem with Auber DSPR1 controllers ….. they only show the % of power available which is dependant in the local mains supply voltage at that time )

Simply , because the minimum trigger voltage is set by the DIAC at circa 25 V , this automatically means that the last 10% or more of a Pot is a dead zone . It also means that you can never get 100% power out of a Phase controller .

But , getting back to SSRV / pot controllers , another major cause of non linearity is simply because the pot/capacitor charging voltage is supplied by a Sine-wave so any linear 0-100% markings on a pot knob scale is a total joke .

Heres some shits and giggles I did showing how Pot value effects range verses supply voltage .
viewtopic.php?p=7570629&sid=f7e86a1fd15 ... 8#p7570629

[Jaktpanda]

Point taken. The AI did print reservations and caveats as well, so I'll have another think and see if I can find a dspr1 with reasonable shipping (EU).

Cheers!

[GrumbleStill]

I’d try just plugging the whole thing into a voltage controller, something like the one Mooseman suggested, set your PID to 105°C and just dial it down to where your column can equalise without flooding.

If you’re on 240V supply it you will be able to turn it down to about half its full load before the controls start playing up. If you’re on 110V you’ll probably only be able to turn it down about 10%, but that should be enough for this job.

Having said that, I think you might be trying to solve the problem at the wrong end of your rig. Is there any fundamental reason why your VM can’t handle 1800W?

[Jaktpanda]

I’d try just plugging the whole thing into a voltage controller, something like the one Mooseman suggested, set your PID to 105°C and just dial it down to where your column can equalise without flooding.

If you’re on 240V supply it you will be able to turn it down to about half its full load before the controls start playing up. If you’re on 110V you’ll probably only be able to turn it down about 10%, but that should be enough for this job.

Having said that, I think you might be trying to solve the problem at the wrong end of your rig. Is there any fundamental reason why your VM can’t handle 1800W?

I got an external power regulator already – the controller acts up at ≈70%. Haven't measured the actual amperage though, so might be enough.

My puny reflux coil can't handle more than 1100W (going by the built in controller – which is surge boiling) which is why I'm looking to limit the power below 1800W. I'll prolly want to replace that (thinking of using the same type of 2"TC 30cm shotgun that I'm using for product) but want to have a way to regulate power regardless, so started in that end.

[NZChris]

When doing something similar, I put the power controller between the PID and the element.

[GrumbleStill]

I got an external power regulator already – the controller acts up at ≈70%. Haven't measured the actual amperage though, so might be enough.

My puny reflux coil can't handle more than 1100W (going by the built in controller – which is surge boiling) which is why I'm looking to limit the power below 1800W. I'll prolly want to replace that (thinking of using the same type of 2"TC 30cm shotgun that I'm using for product) but want to have a way to regulate power regardless, so started in that end.

Gotcha. Hope the power control mods go well.

Have been there with the undersized RC as well. Solved it with 2 Metres of CSST wound like an Dimroth and housed in a 250mm length of 2” pipe.