Dual element placement

[Tammuz]

I was just getting ready to drill out my second hole for another Dernard 5500 ulwd element in a 15 gal keg. I was planning on bending the element to stay out of the way of the other one. Even though I was planning on putting it only 3 inches a way that curve is going to make me bend more than I planned.
Am I over thinking this or should I just go higher? It's going to be mainly used as a steam generator.
Thank you for your time.

[Salt Must Flow]

If you leave them at the same level and drill the holes 90 degrees from each other, they shouldn't touch if you rotate the elements correctly.

Here's another example if you were to drill them from opposing directions.

No matter how you do it, you should be able to rotate the elements so that they don't touch. You shouldn't have to bend them.

Now if you're using STRAIGHT fold-back elements, that may be a different story.

[shadylane]

There're many ways to getter done.
I prefer to orientate the elements 90 degrees to each other and have one element 2" higher.
Here's a build I did awhile back, maybe you can find some useable info.

viewtopic.php?t=57812

[Tammuz]

After looking at my keg for a while I'm going to place them next to each other, one just a bit higher. I want all my water and electrical lines in the back out of the way. It's for using as a steam generator only, the extra 1.5" in height isn't that critical. I will at times need to push the vapor thru a boiler and 2 retorts, so I thought I better add an extra port for another element. Quicker start up won't hurt.
Thanks for your thoughts.

SMF I also will be using the same elements you have. Thanks for the photos, they pushed me to my decision.

Shady I read your thread a good while back. Curious why you went to a smaller drain, I have 2" drains on everything but my steam gen. I really liked what you did for your legs setup. I have less than 10 tools so I make do.

[shadylane]

Shady I read your thread a good while back. Curious why you went to a smaller drain, I have 2" drains on everything but my steam gen. I really liked what you did for your legs setup.

The sandfilter boiler is now only used for clear washes so I downsized the drain.
I built a steam rig and used the 2" valve on it.

[shadylane]

Plan B for Dual element placement would be having the elements parallel to each other.

[shadylane]

Plan C
That no one has tried yet that I'm aware of is to use "hot tub heaters" and only need to drill 4 small holes in the bottom of the boiler.

[NZChris]

1.5" seems a lot to me. 1/2" should be plenty.

If I ever do a new build, I will be looking at those types, Shady. You can get very close to the bottom with some of them.

[MooseMan]

Yes shady, those look absolutely ideal for a boiler intended for occasional low volume charges, where there's a risk of exposing elements.

I shall do some research!

[NormandieStill]

Plan C
That no one has tried yet that I'm aware of is to use "hot tub heaters" and only need to drill 4 small holes in the bottom of the boiler.

I did that!

My main boiler has a 2" TC port with a 4.5kW element and a simple U shaped element fitted through 2 holes drilled in the base. There are a few conditions for fitting those elements, mainly boiling down to access. You can add a TC port from the outside without needing a bigger hole than the port itself. Adding a U element requires an access port through which you can fit the element, and your arm. I did it in order to run a 10L charge for a spirit run on BB's rum.

While I don't regret the decision, getting it to seal was a complete bitch. I couldn't find PTFE O rings so I had to wrap the silicone ones which is a little fiddly when the center holes are 16mm. Then there's a range of torque where they seal and if you go too far then they start leaking again. And I think that if you go too far with one, the slight twisting can make the other leak. There are some cooked on beer stains on the bottom of my boiler that are testament to how much grief this was... not to mention that the first element I got was 201 stainless which promptly rusted after the first run! Oh yeah... and unlike TC elements which have nice end caps, these things just leave 240V contacts 5cm apart completely exposed under your still. Got a little buzz once when reaching for the drain handle!

All that being said, they're a great way to add some circulation to a charge that's heating up. Put them on low and they add some convection while the main element gets everything up to temp.

[MooseMan]

Plan C
That no one has tried yet that I'm aware of is to use "hot tub heaters" and only need to drill 4 small holes in the bottom of the boiler.

I did that!

My main boiler has a 2" TC port with a 4.5kW element and a simple U shaped element fitted through 2 holes drilled in the base. There are a few conditions for fitting those elements, mainly boiling down to access. You can add a TC port from the outside without needing a bigger hole than the port itself. Adding a U element requires an access port through which you can fit the element, and your arm. I did it in order to run a 10L charge for a spirit run on BB's rum.

While I don't regret the decision, getting it to seal was a complete bitch. I couldn't find PTFE O rings so I had to wrap the silicone ones which is a little fiddly when the center holes are 16mm. Then there's a range of torque where they seal and if you go too far then they start leaking again. And I think that if you go too far with one, the slight twisting can make the other leak. There are some cooked on beer stains on the bottom of my boiler that are testament to how much grief this was... not to mention that the first element I got was 201 stainless which promptly rusted after the first run! Oh yeah... and unlike TC elements which have nice end caps, these things just leave 240V contacts 5cm apart completely exposed under your still. Got a little buzz once when reaching for the drain handle!

All that being said, they're a great way to add some circulation to a charge that's heating up. Put them on low and they add some convection while the main element gets everything up to temp.

NS regarding the sealing, do you think you could soft solder those flats on the element into the base of a boiler? (Assuming enough access of course) This way they would seal well, but still be removable if needed by heating back up to reflow the solder?
Then you could maybe use some kind of plastic cap over the threads on the outside, held on by the nut, to cover the contacts?

[Tammuz]

Plan B for Dual element placement would be having the elements parallel to each other.

That was my plan until I saw how much the curve with a keg would cause me to bend the element more than I felt comfortable to do. I basically have four kegs that can be run solo if needed. If I need to heat up a mash in the steam generator I'll just remove the upper element. I have a 20 l milk can for smaller runs.
Good to hear on the drain size. I thought if I went smaller than 2" I'd be having problems pushing out rye and corn. I was also planning on using compressed air to help drain it out of the boiler.
Thanks for your thoughts.

[NormandieStill]

Good to hear on the drain size. I thought if I went smaller than 2" I'd be having problems pushing out rye and corn. I was also planning on using compressed air to help drain it out of the boiler.

I find that an ordinary mains pressure hose works 99% of the time for cleaning out the slops. Helps to agitate the solids and adds more liquid to keep everything flowing.

[NormandieStill]

NS regarding the sealing, do you think you could soft solder those flats on the element into the base of a boiler? (Assuming enough access of course) This way they would seal well, but still be removable if needed by heating back up to reflow the solder?
Then you could maybe use some kind of plastic cap over the threads on the outside, held on by the nut, to cover the contacts?

I did think about soldering it in place, but I'm a little twitchy about soldering an element. In part because I'm scared that removing it will be a lot of grief (I have a lot of experience with desoldering 2 leg electronic components and find that more than enough grief!). I'm also not sure how the potting compound that they use to fix the heating wire will react to the heat of soldering. I tightened one of the nuts up the other day. I should really leak test the boiler to see if it made a difference.

I like the cap idea. Have to work out how to make some.

[shadylane]

Good to hear on the drain size. I thought if I went smaller than 2" I'd be having problems pushing out rye and corn. I was also planning on using compressed air to help drain it out of the boiler.

I find that an ordinary mains pressure hose works 99% of the time for cleaning out the slops. Helps to agitate the solids and adds more liquid to keep everything flowing.

Never underestimate corn's ability to plug up a hole, even a 2" one.
I've had to resort to spraying water from the inside to clear the blockage.