Grungy ass bourbon still grungy after 16 months

[Captain Spaulding]

Hello stillmasters!

I made my first bourbon last summer. Wagners cracked corn (bird feed, 100% corn). Standard percentages of corn, barley, wheat, rye for a bourbon grain bill. Corn looked and smelled fine. Did not do a great job mashing, maybe the water was not hot enough before mash temp or didn’t hold mash temp long enough because after mashing the OG was low. I added sugar, I think I got up to 1.064 or so. Fermented ok, smelled a bit Pukey for sure but hey esterification right? Did 3 buckets and stripped. Ran my spirit run super slow, never breaking into a stream the whole time. 3 - 5 drops/second. Took way too long but I was determined not to smear it! Noticed as I tasted jars that a strong tailsy grungy dirty corn flavor was common pretty much to every jar. Let the jars sit 2 days and did my cuts. That was difficult because the entire run smelled and tasted grungy/tailsy. Head cut was easy but tails cut was hard to find. I think I cut too far into tails but it all smelled/tasted pretty dirty. Anyhoo after cuts/dilution I ended up with a gallon at 57% in glass. Tossed in 1/3 of a northern brewer oak spiral #3 char. Instructions say a full stick does three gallons of spirit. This 1/3 size stick in some 57% rum for 9 months gave me the perfect amount of oak according to some very experienced scotch snob friends of mine. Also nuclear aging UJSSM on these has resulted in a fantastic spirit.

Anyway the bourbon is now 16 months on that stick and it’s better, but still pretty challenging. Really not very good yet. Nasty, assertive earthy corn taste, like corn that’s been sitting in dirt. It’s in the back yard in Colorado with really great wide daily temperature swings! I know, I know, time, time, time. But my question is about using spirals and how big a piece for a gallon of 57%. The med toast version of these spirals gave me an outstanding rum, so I’m not with the camp that might say spirals just suck, end grain, etc. They work great for me! I think I cut too far into tails. Should I add more oak? Or just be a big boy and wait it out while drinking my honey sweet UJSSM and my raisiny Buccaneer Bob’s Black?

[NZChris]

Hello stillmasters!

Fermented ok, smelled a bit Pukey for sure but hey esterification right?

Wrong. You should have left stripping until the vomit smell morphed into pineapple. Butyric acid needs time and other acids for esterification into what you really wanted.

[bilgriss]

Usually "pukey" means wait longer.

Still, don't give up hope yet. Try it again in another year. Make sure it gets a chance to breathe now and then. Time is a powerful thing. If it hasn't improved at all, make other plans. If you like it, great. If it's somewhat better but still not good enough, give it another year.

[OtisT]

If you made a bad cut and included too much tails, it can take quite a while for the spirit to be drinkable. The smell will likely never fully go away but it should develop some nice new smells/tastes over time that could make the spirit acceptable.

I went through a period where I experimented with deep tails cuts. I still have a handful of Badmo barrels full of whiskey like this that are going on 7 years now, and I can still smell the tails. That said, these all developed other wonderful smells and tastes and my friends really like it. I think I’m the only one that cares about that bit of tails smell now.

I occasionally have a spirit run where I can’t find my cut point by smell. Too much funky smell, and it starts way too early. While I can make most cuts by smell, I have switched to making cuts by taste and find this a much easier way to make a consistent tails cut on a stinky spirit. Tails have a nasty bitter taste that hits the back/sides of the tongue. (Heads taste is a stinging chemical taste that hits the tip of my tongue). I base my cut on how long that nasty taste stays in my mouth. If the bitter taste washes away in a few seconds naturally (not rinsing my mouth), it is still in my barrel cut. When that bitter taste coats my mouth and lingers for more than about 5 seconds, it’s too much tails for my cut. This is my normal aging cut point and I make adjustments from that point. When I want a bit more or less tails in a spirit, I find that same cut point by taste then I move my actual cut point up or back a few percentage points from that spot. (that is the percent of product volume I expect to collect) This helps me consistently compare what I consider more/less tails/heads in any given spirit cut.

Before someone blows a gasket I guess I need to state that everyone has their own method for cuts. I just thought this may help you get past the smell issue you experienced. Let that one sit longer and best of luck on your next batch.

[8Ball]

While I can make most cuts by smell, I have switched to making cuts by taste ..,

+1

I make my cuts using a parrot & taste. I start hearts collection at 75%. Once I get down to 65%, I start taking very small sip tastes until I deem it to be too funky/bitter. I call the start of tails (feints) my “beer to bitter” cut point. Works for me.

[Captain Spaulding]

Hello stillmasters!

Fermented ok, smelled a bit Pukey for sure but hey esterification right?

Wrong. You should have left stripping until the vomit smell morphed into pineapple. Butyric acid needs time and other acids for esterification into what you really wanted.

HA!Yeah ok. It smelled like someone had puked up pineapple.

[Captain Spaulding]

Thanks you guys! Sounds like I should have fermented longer and now just need to wait it out.

[NZChris]

AFAIK, Butyric acid only esterifies in the fermenter in the presence of acids, once it's in the bottle it's there until it's drunk.

[higgins]

I made a bourbon back in Aug '22. Following the spirit run I made the following note:

SMELLS LIKE PUKE - CLOSTRIDIUM INFECTION - BUTYRIC ACID
Recombined all jars, diluted to 5 gal @ around 28%
Added 1 tbsp baking soda, let set for 4 weeks.
Aroma is more like pineapple now

So I ran a 2nd spirit run and put it in glass with sticks. A little over a year later it was pretty decent - no butyric character left, but definite pineapple in the aroma. But then I created my Solera Bourbon 'stack' and this became one of my 'tier 2' jugs, so I have none left of the original batch.

A side note: Even when I screw up an AG batch and the OG is low I never add sugar - I either settle for less final product, or make another batch and add them together. Sugar just dilutes the flavor IMHO.

[PalCabral]

A side note: Even when I screw up an AG batch and the OG is low I never add sugar - I either settle for less final product, or make another batch and add them together. Sugar just dilutes the flavor IMHO.

+1
It's about flavors. Sugar doesn't add any, just dilutes them.

Side note from me: I find it funny with Jessie from Still It, Youtube, that he talks about how he's after the grungy flavors in his spirits but he'll be the first to apply the "safety net" of adding adding sugar to his mashes. Lol.