Still with bubble plates

[rednose]

Parrots are done.

Missing water in-out connections, didn't have them in stock.

The stills are outside but the product comes tubed inside the air conditioned lab to classify.

[LWTCS]

Very nice Joe.

[rednose]

I've got a PM from Kentucky, he ask me how and why bubble plates work and what would be a good design for a 4 incher.

Let's come at first to the theory behind this, for that I copy a part (slightly modded) from the parent site about Thumpers:

The still’s boiler begins giving off ethanol vapors (say at 40% purity at 96 ° C off a 5% wash)... these get passed into the thumper and try to bubble up through the liquid there. But because the liquid is cold too, the vapor will all condense if given the chance (e.g. small bubbles & water deep enough). A bit later on, the thumper liquid is starting to heat up and increasing in ethanol content.... soon the thumper is at say 84 ° C, and the ethanol content is around 40% - gees - that sounds like a second pot still doesn't it? So the ethanol starts coming coming out of solution, though this time it will be at around 75-80% - hence the second distillation occurring - all for free, no additional cost or heating involved. Of course all this depends on how effective the thumper is at knocking down the incoming vapor - e.g. bubble size, depth of immersion, % alcohol in the vapor & thumper liquid etc, but you get the basic idea.

So far the parent site comments on thumpers.
You can, if you have enough heat source work with up to 2 thumpers but no more without direct heating the thumpers themselves, other is that the alc content on the 3rd thumper will go closed to a no-no level above 50% ABV which could make us a bomb if separately heated.
The advantage of a thumper chain is that you can fill them with wash liquid to maintain flavors.

We use the bubble plates as inline thumpers in a bubble plate still, as more plates you have - as higher the ABV and as more flavor from the original wash material will get lost.
The downcomers make sure that the plates/column don't over fill

We need to know what we are shooting for, in a whiskey still I don't go higher as two plates after having some experience with it.
A light rum can work with as much as 4 or 5 plates.

There are many designs out there, starting with the cap design, we have squares, rectangles, rounds, bell likes, valve likes, multiples, uniques and many more.

The next post will take some time, I have to think about what would be best (in my opinion) for a 4 incher, that's what Kentucky wants to build.

[Kentucky shinner]

Ok now it is making more sense to me. I just did not think of it as a thumper. This helps me greatly Red. I will be looking forward to seeing your design for a 4"er.
Thanks,
Kentucky Shinner

[rednose]

You're welcome Kentucky

Ok, here is what I would make, I would use 5 perforated (2mm holes) 3/4" bubble caps on a 4 inch plate.

This disk has 4 " and you can see more than less the distribution of the caps which would be soft soldered on top of the plate.

The reversed cup is to receive the liquid from the upper plates downcomer.

If you like that design I can post a horizontal draw with measures for the vapor tubes and downcomers (1/2" tubes).

I would leave 4" space between each plate, the plate material should be copper as it will be easier to work for you (mine are SS).

One add: using this design, I would highly recommend to have an over pressure valve (about 15 PSI) installed on your boiler, the small holes can get tapped with solid material if you cook on grain - over filled.

If you don't want to install the valve you have to make very sure that your wash (beer) is very well syphoned and clear.

Joe

[rednose]

Here a side view of my 6 inch plates during built

[rednose]

Small quiz:

What's wrong in this draw from HowStuffWorks.com? It has two basic mistakes.

moonshine-diagram.gif (21.89 KiB) Viewed 3004 times

[Kentucky shinner]

If you dont mind do the horizontal draw for me. would you cut slots in the sides of the caps or some how make sure they dont set on the floor of the plate, maybe come legs or something?

[Kentucky shinner]

ok I see, I was posting while you were.

[Kentucky shinner]

the arm from the cap should be below the liquid in the thumper
and the cold water should exit from the top of the worm keg

[rednose]

the arm from the cap should be below the liquid in the thumper
and the cold water should exit from the top of the worm keg

That's it, congrats.

Oki, let me work on the horizontal draw this afternoon.

I might post it tomorrow as I have some appointments and my seminary of artisane education.

I will hopefully graduate as distilling master this weekend.

This thang took me 1/2 year of efforts.

[Kentucky shinner]

do the bubble caps just set on the plate, unattached?
Hey red if its to much trouble don't worry with it. It would be greatly appreciated but I really think I have the understanding I was looking for with your 6" plate side shot of the caps.

[rednose]

do the bubble caps just set on the plate, unattached?
Hey red if its to much trouble don't worry with it. It would be greatly appreciated but I really think I have the understanding I was looking for with your 6" plate side shot of the caps.

Don't worry, I forgot that I have done one already, only need to change the sizes.

The caps will be soft soldered, the downcomers, vapor tubes and outside ring needs to be brazed, If you solder all soft you will have a solder salad.

[Kentucky shinner]

how would it be if I used acetylene torch and used hard silver solder?

[Kentucky shinner]

The caps will be soft soldered, the downcomers, vapor tubes and outside ring needs to be brazed, If you solder all soft you will have a solder salad.

so you would have to have some reliefs cut or drilled into the caps, like you have done on your pic. you have holes drilled around yours.

[rednose]

how would it be if I used acetylene torch and used hard silver solder?

That's it for everything else but the caps.

We solder them soft to get 'em off easily if ever needed.

[rednose]

Ok, ready.

This version has the liquid level 2mm raised (in relation to mine) as you will have more turbulences in a 4 incher than a 6 incher as the caps have less space between 'em.

All measurements are in mm.

You can cut the caps 6 mm deap with a saw or small high speed disk for the vapor release if that is easier for you.

Well, I finished my Rum run and have to go now, let me know if you have any question.

Joe

[LWTCS]

Joe are you using copper caps?

I bet if you extended the fill tubes upwards 4x or 5x the current length and used a taller (heavier) cap, you would not need to solder.


Bet that rascal would jingle and jangle real nice during your runs.

Prolly git it to play "Dixie"

I thought I remembered you had these fabricated already?

[rednose]

Joe are you using copper caps?


I thought I remembered you had these fabricated already?

Yes Larry, I use copper caps. it's the only copper part in all my still.

Yup I already made them in 6 inch (the twins in my avatar) and use them daily, this special design was made for Kentucky as he wants to built a 4 incher.

I'm with a similar plan (4" vodka still) but using only one cap per plate.

This isn't prooved till now, that's why I recommend the multiple cap design.

I have too many stuff to do with the permits actually to start a new built right now.

Putting weight will raise the column high and Kentucky has only 25" which is enough if you fix the caps.

In this country it's very difficult to count with time, yesterday they told us we will graduate as artisanes on this saturday, today they say it will be end of september, I'm a little pissed as I wanna be in the x-mas market with our products and time will be short.

Next month is the most important exibition of ecuatorian products, EXPO 2010 and I wanted to participate but with the todays news it's impossible.

Well......

[rad14701]

Wow wow and wow, I just read through this whole thread and I am impressed to say the least!

You didn't think we were just a bunch of toothless podunks making rotgut with a rusty re-purposed oil drum did you...??? This is where all of the new ideas come from, not from modern day distilleries where experimentation is frowned upon due to legal constraints... Not that everything we do around here is new... Improved might be a better word, perhaps...

[LWTCS]

Say that again Joe.

Single floating bubble cap is proven for a while now.

Or did I misunderstand you.

[Samohon]

Nice work Joe...

[rednose]

Say that again Joe.

Single floating bubble cap is proven for a while now.

Or did I misunderstand you.

Yes Larry, you missunderstood.

It's not a floating cap like you use in the humper thumper, it's a technic from the petro industry.

You will know what I mean when I come up with it.

Actually I don't have enough time to start a built but already have the plans and material.

This built will incorporate a lot of machinwork but I have all at the hand.

Joe

[rednose]

There are frequently ongoing topics about good or bad seals in HD.

I already mentioned in the sight glass topic that I use this teflon band for all my pressure fittings.

It's a soft teflon string which, in case that you can't get it, can be made by yourself, it's priced around 40 USD.

Get 5 or more (depends on the thickness you want for the seal) teflon rolls and knot them together at the begining.

Than use a piece of cable to fix the knot to a hand drill.

The rolls have to be set on a piece of wood and a nail in the center.

Than start the drill and you will have a multiple teflon band when the rolls finished.

Joe

Chesterton 2.4mm X 15.3 m teflon seal

tdms3500_EN.pdf

Valvelon data sheet

(78.19 KiB) Downloaded 507 times

[Kentucky shinner]

great Idea Joe, that should work great.

[rednose]

I discarded the idea to build a new vodka still in 4” but I can use some material for the shotgun condenser I will need.

I will go for a 9 plated bubble column in 8 inch.

The column and bubble plates will be copper, the shotgun dephlagmator and condenser in SS.

The boiler will be made in 3mm SS

The boiler will be 1000 Ltr max charge and flat shaped to have enough vapor pushed up.

The heat source will be diesel; I already purchased a Beckett burner 3 gal/min 100 PSI, which should do the job.

I expect 6 to 8 gal/h with this setup on a ABV above 90% in hearts.

I have enough heat to feed another (double) column if I’m not fine with the first results.

Maybe I can add a vacuum pump in the future to save some energy but I’m not 100% clear jet how these vacuum stills work on cuts and that is very important to have a high quality product.

The hot cooling water will pass after the dephlagmator to a worm in SS bucket filled with material for the next batch to preheat it, that could vaporize the first nasties a bit as well.

The still will be computerized, I mean it will have bells and rings when a certain temp is reached in the still head or in the cooling water for security and cut warnings during the run as the to be distilled product will always be the same.

The still will be used to rectify crude sugar cane liquor at 40% ABV.

I have to see how to finance this project as many other circumstances play a roll like enough cooling water (might have to drill a well) and stocking the likker to age it for some weeks.


I know that this still isn’t home use anymore, neither the twins are, but it might inspire someone to scale it down to the actual home built standard, the 4 inchers.

Sourcing all needed parts will take some time

1000 Ltr SS boiler

[Kentucky shinner]

That would really make a nice bioler scaled down to about 100 liter.

[rednose]

Here you go Kentucky, it's 127 Ltr, I used the complete lenght of a SS sheet => 2.44 / pi = 77cm

The blue part is the max charge.

127 Ltr boiler

[Kentucky shinner]

Hey man thats great thanks.. I will copy this into my file of wishes...They may be my next prject..
I assume these measurements in CM?
KS

[rednose]

Yeah, all numbers in Cm.

Would make a nice addition to your pool area with a brick insulation.

When you don't use it you can tarn it as a solar powered water fountain or just put a pot with flowers on top.