I have built a new condenser where the water runs both down the center and around the outside. I know they have been built before, but wanted to show how I tackled the problem. My previous condenser was a 1/2" pipe with a 3/4" water jacket.
DSC08048.jpg (28.05 KiB) Viewed 12277 times
It is made with 1/2" center water cooling pipe, 3/4" steam path pipe, and 1" outer water cooling pipe.
The volume of of the steam path between the 1/2" and 3/4" is about the same as the volume of a 1/2" pipe. The benefit is in that it has nearly 3 times the amount of copper surface area to condense on. As we learned on the parent site, double the surface area, double the cooling, tripple the surface area and tripple the cooling!
Re your post about condensers and thought I'd send a pic of my idea. Basically the same as yours I (Ihavent tried it yet) I use a 1/4 " tube down center with a piece of 'corregated' 3/4 " flexable copper used for connecting water heater lines to the house supply. I have a 5 amp boat bilge pump that really moves a lot of water, hopefuly enough. The unit in pic drops down inside a piece of 1 " copper offset from column.
heynonny, isn't your design more of a cold finger than the double-surface described by RumBull...??? The way I'm taking it is that he has two cooled surfaces that contact the vapor, unless I'm missing something...
heynonny wrote:You right, RAD14701, a cold finger, just like my ex-wife!!
BTW how does one put the quotes in?? (greyed in) I cant figure that out. heynonny
Click the Quote button in the lower right corner of each post you wish to quote in your reply... You can also paste copied text between [_quote_]...[_/quote_] tags, without the underscores which were inserted for display purposes only...
I think you'll love it Rummy, mines shorter and fatter, but it works exellently. Only the lid on mine gets warm around the inlet and i have to turn my pump down to the tiniest trickle before i can get the top inch or so of condensor to get hot. I'm sure yours will work just as well for you too.
Punkin,
Can you add the link to your condensor? I remember seeing it and the drawings that Pinto made, but now I can not find it??? They were my inspiration although I took my own creative liberties!
RumBull wrote:Punkin,
Can you add the link to your condensor? I remember seeing it and the drawings that Pinto made, but now I can not find it??? They were my inspiration although I took my own creative liberties!
Can someone explain how this works? I'm just not getting it. I understand the idea from looking at Punkin and Pint's condensors, but I can't figure out how Rumbull's works. It looks like the cooling water and distillate will mix at the drilled hole. What I'm not getting is: how deos the water go from the 1/2" pipe to the 1" pipe, and how is the product removed?
Mud
The 'drilled hole' is where a 90* elbow exits from the 1/2" pipe. The stub at the bottom is open to the 3/4 vapor path.
It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.
Valved Reflux, 3"x54" Bok 'mini', 2 liebig based pots and the 'Blockhead' 60K btu propane heat
Mud
The steam travels between the 1/2" and 3/4" pipe. It is then reduced to 1/2" after the spot where the water exits (90 degree L) and then exits the bottom. It appears that the 1/2" runs the entire distance but it does not. I should have take a photo of the inner piece before it was assembled.
The water enters the top 1/2 tube, exits through the side of the 3/4 pipe and then runs up between the 3/4 and 1" pipe before exiting out near the top.
The steam enters the side opening of the 3/4" pipe and then runs down, is reduced to 1/2" and exits the bottom.
Hope that helps clear it up.
It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.
Valved Reflux, 3"x54" Bok 'mini', 2 liebig based pots and the 'Blockhead' 60K btu propane heat
Finally I understand this condenser. I have been trying to work it out, reading and rereading both this post and Punkins post, Mud's drawing has finally cleared it up for me, thank you.
It is most absurdly said, in popular language, of any man, that he is disguised in liquor; for, on the contrary, most men are disguised by sobriety. ~Thomas de Quincy, Confessions of an English Opium-Eater, 1856
No problem on the doodles gentlemen. Using AutoCAD is part of my job. It's easier than sketching and scanning. And easier to change,too.
I guess that 90* elbow is in the wrong place. Good thinking there. I'm going to build on of these pretty soon, but with a 1.25" outer jacket. Just waiting on parts. It will be installed just 15* degrees off level so the collection jar is tabletop height. Any reason to think that's a problem?
Somebody building one of these could wrap and spot solder some wire in a spiral pattern around the outside of the .75". It would create some turbulence in the water flow if that's a concern.
Coops,
I'm just glad I'm not the only one that didn't get it.
Correct me if I'm wrong....trying to make sure I understand the principles correctly...
Increasing the surface area of the condenser helps with the efficiency of the condenser, therefor you can strip faster by adding more calories to the pot, and, if the pump is adequate, would help to keep the condenser from overheating.
However, it does not directly add to the HETP and does not increase alcohol purity of distillate nor is it really a factor affecting cogeners in the distillate, since that is mostly dependent upon column design. Correct?
It is most absurdly said, in popular language, of any man, that he is disguised in liquor; for, on the contrary, most men are disguised by sobriety. ~Thomas de Quincy, Confessions of an English Opium-Eater, 1856
I am in the process of building one of these too. I have the inner water filled core 22mm inside a 28mm. So the vapour is between the 22mm and 28mm tubes.
However, am having a problem with the price of the fittings for the outer core. Will this idea work instead?
Wrap a tight coil of 8mm tube arround the 28mm tube to act as the outer water jacket. Will then have cooling inside the 22mm tube and in the coil to chill the 28mm tube. That should be plenty of surface area as I hope to run it with 3000kw. My only concern is with the water flowrate through 30 to 50 feet of 8mm coil. I intend to solder the coil to the 28mm tube to aid thermal transfer. Think this will work?
It sounds like a good alternative. The heat transfer will be less but still better than just a standard water jacketed condensor. As far as the water flow, it should not be a problem as these type of condesors require a very slow trickle. I still have not tested this yet because I built this new condesor to add to my new 3" still topper. This weekend should be the first run if all goes well.
If you already have the pipe you need for the outer tube you can swage the ends to fit what you need. Just aneal the ends and slowly work it down with a hammer. Did that for my 3 to 2 reducer that I use to mount my potstill head.
It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.
Valved Reflux, 3"x54" Bok 'mini', 2 liebig based pots and the 'Blockhead' 60K btu propane heat
OOPS!!!! Sorry but just noticed the typo error. 3000kw? I am not running a blast furnace, 3Kw more like.
I have just got hold of the neccesary bits to build a hot water jacketed double boiler so I may in fact run the 20 litre still on propane instead of electric. Will still be running the 2 stage Liebig condenser. First is 36" as described earlier (22mm cooled core in 28mm, sleeved in either coil or 35mm tube), but that will then feed into a basic 18" liebig with 15mm inside 22mm.
This might be overkill on the cooling, but I want to use the same condenser on the second still when I finally manage to find a keg to use for stripping runs. I am never likely to run both stills at the same time, so why not use valves to feed them both into the same condenser?
One way of getting the surface area of small tubing without the back pressure/flow restriction of long skinny tubes is to have several parallel runs connected at a header. It is important that all the runs be the same length or the shortest run will get most of the water.
Cryogenic heat exchangers for big gas liquification rigs can have hundreds of parallel runs of 1/8" tubing.
If the wall thickness of the tubes is the same, the heat transfer capacity is roughly proportional to the mass of the copper used for heat transfer surface. What the different designs do is maximize the surface area used for heat transfer. In a jacketed Leibig like this one, the outer tube does not contribute to the heat transfer, but all the others do.
You can increase the efficiency slightly by insulating it to minimize the heat gain from the environment. Not so important in the Great White North, but could be a factor in the superheated flint wilderness of Oz.
The flow rate at a given pressure is identical to amperage in electrical circuits. Volts = pressure, Amps = flow, resistance = resistance.
Resistance is length / cross-sectional area.
Things get different when the thickness of the boundary layer and ID get within an order of magnitude of each other. But not to worry - nobody is using tube that small.
I know that you all cant afford all this pipe to make this triple walled condensers so why not make a "poor" mans" versions
your regular 1/2 inside 3/4 with 1/4 inside of that if it was "swirled"(twisted) to upset the flow so that the vapors whould come in contact with walls
it whould do a better job. going bigger is not always the answer , vapor can travel down the center of the tube and not come in contact with walls
witch is not efficient. most do not run a 1/2" stream of distillerant any way.
Dndr,
In theory this style condenser should have at least 3 times the surface area in contact with the vapor. An 18 inch version should easily outperform a standard 3 foot long liebig.
A good way to improve a standard unit would be to add a twisted ribbon, simillar to the mixer stage of an oxy/acy torch.
It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.
Valved Reflux, 3"x54" Bok 'mini', 2 liebig based pots and the 'Blockhead' 60K btu propane heat
I know what your trying to do but why a hundred dollar condenser for ten dollars worth of booze? hear in ass@#$! of the world we have
the opposite problem ,to keep things from freezing. no mater how efficient that condenser is it is only as good as the water that is run threw
it .(you cant cool something off with something that is hot) basic heat transfer, maybe berrying the pipe a few inches under ground. or finding other uses for the water as preheating mash,cooking mash ,a nice hot bath,heating swimming pools, places that it is hot days and cold nights store and
use for heat. if you double triple or whatever the surface of the condenser it wont do any good if you do not have a place for the heat to go.
Once that condenser water reaches a certain temp it is not going to be affective any more no mater how long or big your condenser is.
you just cant cool something off below the condenser waters temp. only thing you can do is to increase the capacity or displace the heat.
That is one area that I have an advantage. My well stays a constant 55*F. Use the discharge to water the lawn in summer, save it in a barrel for mashing in winter.
It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.
Valved Reflux, 3"x54" Bok 'mini', 2 liebig based pots and the 'Blockhead' 60K btu propane heat
